TdSuisse *SPOILER*

frenchfighter

josame wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pD1e605x80

here you go...

They look like they are going ridiculously fast

frenchfighter

Who knows if Andy was trying to day but he lost 2.5mins over 32km. You think Contador would have.

Le Commentateur

ForumNewbie wrote:

Felt a bit sorry for Cunego, but glad it was a really exciting finish to the race. The Eurosport commentators seemed to think Cunego had already done enough before today and just needed to turn up today to win overall. They kept saying that only a mechanical failure would stop him keeping the yellow jersey, but that was clearly not the case.

Perhaps the organizer's might be a bit to blame for not keeping them updated with off-air time splits, or perhaps Cunego ran out of gas only in the final few kms, but eurosport could have done a bit better, as Levi is a superior TTer to Cunego and yet the it was only with 500 metres to go that we were informed just how tight it was.

blazing_saddles

Leipheimer wins by 4", having sucked 8" out of Cunego on the Malbun climb.
Cynical, conservative, but effective.
Maybe organizers should think twice about having long trials on the last day of these races.
Otherwise, it could encourage riders to emulate Levi's way of thinking and racing.

rebs

I'm no fan of Levi. But I cant really fault how he one.

He played to his strengths and did what was needed to win. Caunego was fully aware that he would be killed in the TT. It wasn't up to him to have a long TT at the end. Overall their has been some great racing in the TDS.

Long TT's can be like a double edged sword. 1) they can create really attacking races where climbers are really looking to kill off the strong TT'ers. While the TT'ers are hanging on for dear life. Or the climbers cant shake the TT'ers and it'll turn into more of a stroll uphill. All this being said unless you are Condator that is...

Noticed lots of comparisons with Wiggins win and Levi's in that both are accused of wheel sucking which I find a little weak to whine about. I guess this is more to do with me believing that stage racing should be more about climbing up mountains. Having these type of TT works i find. Looking back over the Dalphine & TDS their has been some really good racing whether it is for the stage win or stage win. I'm not liking the fascination of serious climbing all the time. It's getting to the point where racing may becoming too hard to make it combative with attacking racing. Everyone appears to just want to hold on and survive.

I really would like the press to start asking questions to Andy about whether he should be upset that Contador put time into him for dropping his chain (in the tour last year) considering what they did to Rabobank (which I don't personally feel is a problem). The pro out of it was that it turned the race on it's head and created loads more talking points.

knedlicky

I don’t like it Leipheimer won either, but as well as all the TT-ers who have won a Tour in the past simply on their TT performance, isn’t that also how Frank S. eventually won the Tour de Suisse last year too? So no novelty.
At least Cunego didn’t seem to have any bad feelings at the prize ceremony – maybe he felt he was anyway riding his luck to the end.

I don’t dislike the TTs as last stage to tours. As well as the famous Fignon-Lemond occasion, the Giro has had some exciting last stage TTs. I wonder why the TdF never repeated that idea - maybe because they knew it would never be equalled?

I don’t like Klöden, for his doping suspicions, and reluctance to speak (which I don’t believe has to do with being introverted) but it was a pretty good performance by him. I admire his efficient TT style, better than even Cancellara’s.

I also thought the performances by Fulgsang and De Gendt very good.
Despite the half-negative remark from 'afx237vi', the other day about De Gendt, he looks a good bet for future tour contender, if he could decide to be less of a Sandy Casar type. Fuglsang even more so, perhaps.

RichN95.

frenchfighter wrote:

Who knows if Andy was trying to day but he lost 2.5mins over 32km. You think Contador would have.

Contador did even worse in the 2007 Dauphine TT (35th @ 3'22). It didn't seem to do him much harm.

afx237vi

knedlicky wrote:

I also thought the performances by Fulgsang and De Gendt very good.
Despite the half-negative remark from 'afx237vi', the other day about De Gendt, he looks a good bet for future tour contender, if he could decide to be less of a Sandy Casar type. Fuglsang even more so, perhaps.

It was half-negative, I'll give you that, but on what basis do you see De Gendt as a Tour contender? Winning a mountain stage from a breakaway is a different kettle of fish entirely from climbing alongside the real GC riders.

He could win a few smaller stage-races, like Voeckler or Gilbert, but a grand tour? I would be enormously surprised.

Abdoujaparov

Don't know much about de gendt but he's looked very good this last week. That was a break of 17 he won from the other day, even if he attacked before the climb.

Feel a bit sorry for cunego too - staggering move when he bridged a few days ago and he's got nothing to show for it. But as good as that was, so bad was his TT today. Incredibly poor and he can't really argue with 2nd.

iainf72

RichN95 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Who knows if Andy was trying to day but he lost 2.5mins over 32km. You think Contador would have.

Contador did even worse in the 2007 Dauphine TT (35th @ 3'22). It didn't seem to do him much harm.

I won't have this. Next thing you'll be suggesting that Contador did a very average ride in his first Grand Tour!

greasedscotsman

Slightly worried now about Radioshack's chances for the Tour. Does anyone think Leipheimer has maybe a podium in him? Or even more?

FJS

greasedscotsman wrote:

Slightly worried now about Radioshack's chances for the Tour. Does anyone think Leipheimer has maybe a podium in him? Or even more?

You mean like Frank Schleck last year, or Cancellara in 2009, or Kreuziger in 2008, or Karpets in 2007?

iainf72

greasedscotsman wrote:

Slightly worried now about Radioshack's chances for the Tour. Does anyone think Leipheimer has maybe a podium in him? Or even more?

He's nearly won before, so why not?

Anyway, Contador, Schleck, Leip - Is there any real difference?

rick_chasey

iainf72 wrote:

Anyway, Contador, Schleck, Leip - Is there any real difference?

Yeah.

One makes me violent.

One irritates me.

One reminds me of an old friend.

OffTheBackAdam

Cunego lacked sufficient support in the mountains. I don't remember seeing a single other Lampre rider with him once the road started to go up!

knedlicky

Abdoujaparov wrote:

Feel a bit sorry for cunego too ... his TT today. Incredibly poor

Not long after Cunego set off in the TT, Rolf Aldag, team manager at HTC, commented that he thought the water bottle was unnecessary and would cost Cunego 3-4 seconds.
A few minutes later, Aldag added he thought the way Cunego’s bib number was attached (high up the back, and loosely with pins, rather than low down the back and tight against the jersey) would cost him another couple of seconds.

I wonder how accurate Aldag was in his assessment. If correct, it would have made all the difference. You would think Saronni (Lampre team manager) would know these things too, from his own experience.
I didn't see Cunego reach for the bottle: I hope for his sake he did need a swig now and again.

rick_chasey

knedlicky wrote:

Abdoujaparov wrote:

Feel a bit sorry for cunego too ... his TT today. Incredibly poor

Not long after Cunego set off in the TT, Rolf Aldag, team manager at HTC, commented that he thought the water bottle was unnecessary and would cost Cunego 3-4 seconds.
A few minutes later, Aldag added he thought the way Cunego’s bib number was attached (high up the back, and loosely with pins, rather than low down the back and tight against the jersey) would cost him another couple of seconds.

I wonder how accurate Aldag was in his assessment. If correct, it would have made all the difference. You would think Saronni (Lampre team manager) would know these things too, from his own experience.
I didn't see Cunego reach for the bottle: I hope for his sake he did need a swig now and again.

I think Aldag has a sponsor incentive to publicise the 'aero' side of TTing....

frenchfighter

RichN95 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Who knows if Andy was trying to day but he lost 2.5mins over 32km. You think Contador would have.

Contador did even worse in the 2007 Dauphine TT (35th @ 3'22). It didn't seem to do him much harm.

You mean the race where he won up l'Alpe? Where he won the prologue? And where he came 2nd overall? Where the TT was 49km and Contador never got into the rhythum.

Pross

I was thinking on Saturday whether it produces more exciting racing having a TT at the very end of the race or when there are still some mountain stages. My instinct was that having them at the end encourages riders to wheel suck if they have a good TT but then it should also encourage the climbers to attack to gain enough of a margin to defend. With a TT early on it means that the climbers can attack the overall leader in the mountains but if the lead is enough after the TT most contenders can nullify the attacks to limit their losses as Wiggins did at the Dauphine. With riders like Contador I guess it doesn't make any difference as he can climb as well as or better than any other GT contender and can also TT better than any of those that can match him day in, day out in the mountains.

I didn't like the way LL won but ultimately he took less time to cover the distance of the race than anyone else. Lampre let Cunego down badly and Leopard seemed content to race for second from about stage 3 onwards.

josame

Anyway, Contador, Schleck, Leip - Is there any real difference?[/quote]

Oh c'mon are you havin us on?

Contador is Mr Attacking..and with what the sport gives us... amongst those 3 surely that is all that counts!

thegibdog

I thought it was a pretty good end to the race; it was clear that it was going to be close from the intermediate time checks and it made for a tense finish. Leipheimer played to his strengths and obviously thought he had a good chance of pulling back 2 minutes on Cunego in the TT.

I understand some people don't like TT's and would prefer to see the races won on the road stages but they're part of racing. I'm no expert but Cunego looked awful on the bike yesterday, surely a bit of work on his techique/position on the TT bike would make a big difference?

knedlicky

Pross wrote:

I was thinking on Saturday whether it produces more exciting racing having a TT at the very end of the race or when there are still some mountain stages .....

In the 2012 Tour de Suisse (Sat 9 June – Sun 17 June), the TT won’t be at the end, like this year, but a couple of days beforehand. The last two days in 2012 will be a mountain finish and then a semi-mountain stage.
Had it been like this last week, maybe Cunego might have been able to regain yellow.

1. , Lugano - Lugano.
2. , Verbania (Italy) - Verbier.
3. , Martigny - Aarberg.
4. , Aarberg - Trimbach/Olten.
5. , Olten/Trimbach - Kanton Aargau.
6. , Kanton Aargau - Bischofszell.
7. , TT in Gossau ZH.
8. , Bischofszell - Arosa.
9. , Näfels - Sörenberg.

FransJacques

I'm surprised that Klodi wasn't up there vying for supremacy with Levi to win Bruyneel's favour. If he, Levi, and Brajkovic are the 3 co-leaders, at least at the outset, was Klodi keeping his powder dry for stage 12 of the Tour (Luz Ardiden) or did he reckon that he wasn't up for it last week?

Did Levi blow his load in Cali and now CH? Maybe you find form by working for someone, but saving your ultimate effort till the big show?

That was Andy's strategy, work hard for Frank and test yourself is a low risk situation. I must say that both brothers came up short, but maybe it was sandbagging.

I hope Cunego can climb in the Tour like he did in CH. One of the few guys I think who has the explisive jump to test Contador.

With Basso, we'll have to see.

Could be a really good tour.

shinyhelmut

thegibdog wrote:

I'm no expert but Cunego looked awful on the bike yesterday, surely a bit of work on his techique/position on the TT bike would make a big difference?

Maybe just a bit of work on his flexibility would help, after all that's all it took to transform Basso back into a GT contendor after his comeback from his ban for thinking about doping.

avoidingmyphd

frenchfighter wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Who knows if Andy was trying to day but he lost 2.5mins over 32km. You think Contador would have.

Contador did even worse in the 2007 Dauphine TT (35th @ 3'22). It didn't seem to do him much harm.

You mean the race where he won up l'Alpe? Where he won the prologue? And where he came 2nd overall? Where the TT was 49km and Contador never got into the rhythum.

It didn't go up the Alpe, Wiggins won the prologue, Contador came 6th overall and the TT was 40km long.
All that aside, isn't "he never got into a rhythm" just another way of saying "he didn't do a very good TT"?

frenchfighter

My bad, just assumed he was talking about 2010

moray_gub

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Leipheimer wins by 4", having sucked 8" out of Cunego on the Malbun climb.
Cynical, conservative, but effective.
Maybe organizers should think twice about having long trials on the last day of these races.
Otherwise, it could encourage riders to emulate Levi's way of thinking and racing.

Levis way of thinking and racing has often been the norm on week long stage races . Strong testers like him have been hanging on the mounatins and nailing the one big TT for years just like Bradley Wiggins last week in fact. Nothing new here...........