@ Genesis Equilibrium riders

jonny_trousers

Like I said before, I have the Condors and they're decent brakes. No idea who makes them, but they're way better than Tektro or Shimano 105. With decent pads, certainly all you need on an Equilibrium.

Santa cruzing

I've just upgraded from the 451s to the R650s

I ran Kool stop salmon in both and the R650s are better for sure, less flex than the 451s. With a good clean rim/pad they are fantastic. The salmons are a world away from stock pads too, highly reccomended.

davmaggs

Hi Santa Cruzing,

I was on the verge of ordering the 451s as the Shimano PDFs of their components make them out to be virtually identical. It appears that you could even buy the cable spring and 'upgrade' part of the 451s. It struck me that the price difference was just market segmentation, rather than hard core differences in stopping power.

In your experience is the metal stronger on the 650s or some kind of better leverage? Is the difference in stopping power much higher?

Santa cruzing

Re price, the 451s dont come with cartridge holders so you have to add that in, and IME the shimano ones are better than the cheaper ones from Fibrax etc. Easier to toe/position correctly and the grub screws are not as soft.

Side by side they do look very simmilar. The 650s have a more positive feeling in braking, dont know if the material is different but they are finnished much better. The adjusters/QRs are better quality too. My 451s had a litle play in them that isn't there on the 650s.

I upgraded as I was offered these by a mate that had a new pair laying around, but I would def have bought them over the 451s in the first place.

UndercoverElephant

Sketchley wrote:

Looking at the pictures again, particuarly the quick release they are most certainly not rebadged R650s.

Definitely not, though they do look *very* like rebadged Tektro R737s

http://www.tektro.com/_english/01_produ ... rt=2&fid=9

alan_sherman

Another 57mm drop brake option is the van nicolas brakes as fitted to Yukons:
http://www.vannicholas.com/componentsde ... ntelements

No personal experience of them though.

I have the cheaper Shimano brakes (BR450?) and they are good stoppers. I bet they are the same as the next model up with poorer quality finish (paint rather than a de-burr, polish and lacquer), non cartridge brake blocks and poorer quality finish on the QR etc.

too slow to go

Right guys i`m looking at the Equilibrium 20 (2013) @ £1300 from Evans, is this the wrong time to buy (price wise) as the 2014 bikes should be getting stocked soon?

After reading this thread i cant believe a bike over £1k has such shocking brakes that need replaced immediately... i`m a heavier rider so stopping power is high on my list. So this is a big -1 for the bike.

If i don`t get the Equilibrium i will be ordering a Bob Jackson or Mercian frame and build with handbuilt 105 hub wheels and 105 groupset... but these builds will cost ~£1400-£1700 and i would like to keep costs down not to mention the delivery time and build up time.

sketchley

Shop around a bit it's cheaper here for example. Plus Evans do price match some shops.....

http://www.tweekscycles.com/bikes/road- ... -road-bike

blkmcs

too slow to go wrote:

...After reading this thread i cant believe a bike over £1k has such shocking brakes that need replaced immediately... i`m a heavier rider so stopping power is high on my list. So this is a big -1 for the bike...

I've covered over 5,000 kilometres so far on the original brakes and pads and I haven't once felt that they might let me down. I'm sure there are better brakes out there just as there are better bikes out there but I'm happy with the 20 and with its brakes.

too slow to go

Cool, there was a lot of negative comments about the brakes that was off putting.

I`m going later to view/try the bike for size (5' 10 with short legs) so gonna try a 54cm first.

Anyone seen the spec of the 2014 and there release date? i have only seen the disc version and i`m not keen on it.

samsbike

They are still running the non disc version in 725 as far as I know. I suspect you will get away with a 56 as the seat tube is short and the head tube shorter still. I am 5 11.5 and think now (with about 23cm of seat post showing and a 30 degree stem) I should have got a 60.

davmaggs

Just wanted to post an update.

Despite my desire to keep with black metal work, and skepticism over the R650s really being better than the 451s, I went for the R650 brakes in the end (from Ribble). It could of course be the pads, but they are indeed better than the stock brakes. I intend to buy some Salmon pads to try and take them up another factor in stopping power.

jonny_trousers

UndercoverElephant wrote:

Sketchley wrote:

Looking at the pictures again, particuarly the quick release they are most certainly not rebadged R650s.

Definitely not, though they do look *very* like rebadged Tektro R737s

http://www.tektro.com/_english/01_produ ... rt=2&fid=9

That definitely looks to be them. Good breaks, but anyone buying them will presumably want to swap the pads.

While we're talking pads, I'm actually not that blown away by Swissstop Greens. They're good, but no better than stock Shimano/Campag IMHO.

asprilla

Swissstop GXP greens have been superseded by the BXP blues. The blues are much, much better.

sketchley

davmaggs wrote:

Just wanted to post an update.

Despite my desire to keep with black metal work, and skepticism over the R650s really being better than the 451s, I went for the R650 brakes in the end (from Ribble). It could have course be the pads, but they are indeed better than the stock brakes. I intend to buy some Salmon pads to try and take them up another factor in stopping power.

You haven't wasted your money, it was the pads and the brakes... My upgrade path was first keep chartrdige pads of ebay, then replacement swissstop greens, then the R650. All got improved the braking but it wasn't until the 650s went on that I was truely happy. Currently running cheap "summer" pads that were put on by servicing company that comes to office, the braking is fine with these (better than Swisstop Greens on the old calipers) but an upgrade before winter to blues will follow.

EightOhEight

does anyone know of any carbon frames that match the Equilibrium 58cm geometry? Love riding mine so much want a matching geometry carbon frame for 'Sunday best'.

london-red

My thinking exactly, except a custom build out of 953 tubing. 40th birthday perhaps

Mark__gti

Alb

Shimano BR-451 brakes across the board for 2014

jonny_trousers

Cream = very nice. Blue = acceptable. Green = :shock:

menthel

I am going to be strange- the green is my fave out of those! They do make nice bikes...

wastegate86

Not sold on any of them!
Bring back the black disc frame....

elbowloh

menthel wrote:

I am going to be strange- the green is my fave out of those! They do make nice bikes...

Me too, i think it's lovely.

Mark__gti

I might be boring but I think the black equilibrium disc colour scheme is the best

bendertherobot

The cream is a mistake. It's the top model AND the separate frame and forks colour. I don't think it will do big business.

HoboJones

So, anyone know anywhere with the 2013 20 in 60cm in stock?

tonye_n

alan sherman wrote:

...................................
I have the cheaper Shimano brakes (BR450?) and they are good stoppers. I bet they are the same as the next model up with poorer quality finish (paint rather than a de-burr, polish and lacquer), non cartridge brake blocks and poorer quality finish on the QR etc.

I have had both, on on my Giant bike, the other on my Equilibrium.
The R650 is defo stiffer. The R450 does flex a bit during hard downhill braking.... and I am 67Kg.

tonye_n

alan sherman wrote:

...................................
I have the cheaper Shimano brakes (BR450?) and they are good stoppers. I bet they are the same as the next model up with poorer quality finish (paint rather than a de-burr, polish and lacquer), non cartridge brake blocks and poorer quality finish on the QR etc.

I have had both, on on my Giant bike, the other on my Equilibrium.
The R650 is defo stiffer. The R450 does flex a bit during hard downhill braking.... and I am 67Kg.

menthel

Having been out on the Italia this weekend I can confirm that the Condor brakes are much more stoppy than the boggo equillibrium ones, especially with greentops fitted. Much better power and modulation and then don't feel bendy when you have to apply the brakes a bit harder than usual. I may well get a set for the commuting bike

nigglenoo

menthel wrote:

Having been out on the Italia this weekend I can confirm that the Condor brakes are much more stoppy than the boggo equillibrium ones, especially with greentops fitted. Much better power and modulation and then don't feel bendy when you have to apply the brakes a bit harder than usual. I may well get a set for the commuting bike

I recognised the Condor brakes instantly as I have R737s on my Equilibrium. I have always thought they are quite good*, plus the finish is better than cheaper Tektros, i.e. all the metal parts are still shiny after two years all weather use, except the small allen head pivot bolts are just a bit dull. The QR is a good design as well, easily clearing my 28mm tyres.

The Condor price is rather steep at £60 seeing as you can a get a set of R737s from Ribble for £35: http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... 3god_WsAMw

* until I built up my new touring bike with Tektro Mini Vs- they are awesome, thankfully they stop superbly even with a load of camping gear on board and going down 25% hills on Exmoor.