Who on BR has bought a 'cheap' Chinese carbon frame?

guinea

My post from earlier was to highlight the fact that the chinarellos are not made from the same stuff as the real ones.

Instead of being 100% carbon, they seem to be filled with newspaper and fibreglass.

If your Pinarello breaks, you have recourse to a large company who should try to look after you. Good luck trying to get the Chinese fakers to pay for your dentistry after your newspaper fork breaks.

I don't care if you want a replica/fake bike, but let's not pretend they are as good as the real thing when they are demonstrably shoddy and potentially dangerous.

Pseudonym

you're all under arrest.

cabbage1879

guinea wrote:

My post from earlier was to highlight the fact that the chinarellos are not made from the same stuff as the real ones.

Instead of being 100% carbon, they seem to be filled with newspaper and fibreglass.

If your Pinarello breaks, you have recourse to a large company who should try to look after you. Good luck trying to get the Chinese fakers to pay for your dentistry after your newspaper fork breaks.

I don't care if you want a replica/fake bike, but let's not pretend they are as good as the real thing when they are demonstrably shoddy and potentially dangerous.

A friend of mine brought his bike up to me to get a new BB and chainset fitted. Just happens to be a Chinese carbon frame, he had a minor crash crash not so long ago and his forks broke into a million pieces. Needless to say having seen the state of his forks and the quality of the frame in the flesh i've now decided to steer clear.

derbygrimpeur

well this thread is 6 months old now and plenty of BR forumites are now riding Chinese frames. None of them have *yet* had a problem?

This newspaper in the frame thing is surely rubbish. The pictures don't prove it's a newspaper, you can't see what it is.

sloppyschleckonds

PeteMadoc wrote:

Here's mine pretty much finished, I'll post a full build list in the "your rides" section



Brought through carbonzone, custom decals from spincollective.co.uk

Need to buy a new saddle, I put a new Arione on to begin with but didn't suit so it's got my tatty old one on for now.

A guy off road bike review gave me the illustrator file for this and I thought it was pretty cool.

Looks fantastic

andi1363

derbygrimpeur wrote:

well this thread is 6 months old now and plenty of BR forumites are now riding Chinese frames. None of them have *yet* had a problem?

This newspaper in the frame thing is surely rubbish. The pictures don't prove it's a newspaper, you can't see what it is.

http://emails.trekbikes.com/exit180/200604/

garnett

andi1363 wrote:

derbygrimpeur wrote:

well this thread is 6 months old now and plenty of BR forumites are now riding Chinese frames. None of them have *yet* had a problem?

This newspaper in the frame thing is surely rubbish. The pictures don't prove it's a newspaper, you can't see what it is.

http://emails.trekbikes.com/exit180/200604/

So the "newspaper" fork was actually from a mainstream American manufacturer?

derbygrimpeur

also...

Then again, there's also this fine example of foam filler in place of real carbon that was found on the inside of another brand that touts itself as a champion of new technology and hands-on fabrication. There's enough clay in there to sculpt a small ash tray.

edit: it also doesn't say that the newspaper in anyway damages the carbon's performance. The extra weight aside, what's the big deal? (genuine question as I have now idea of the strength properties etc. of carbon fibre)

geebee2

If these frames were problematic we would have had reports by now.

I have been riding my FM015 for over 6 months now and love it to bits.

I guess I have done about 3,000 miles on UK roads by now, often quite rough.

If someone posts pictures of a failed frame, fair enough, but I suggest ignoring any generalised vague rumours. Why not just accept that the Chinese do know how to make bicycle frames?

yaya

Pseudonym wrote:

DF33 wrote:

To me, either ride a clone pinarello and leave the decals off or buy a real Pinarello with the decals on. Both ways are fine. But sticking a companies decals on a brand new fake is bootlegging the product. One call to trading standards by the companies (or the police if they can be bothered) and a knock on the door of the owner will most likely quickly follow.

the frames are not sold as 'Pinarello' and there is no attempt at 'passing off' as such. What the buyer wants to stick on the down tube after purchase is entirely up to him. I don't see anything illegal in that - which is probably why Pinarello has not done anything about it...

If the frames were advertised as 'Pinarello' (fake/passing off) or being sold with Pinarello branding (bootlegged) then that might be different.

As far as I can tell (with my limited interest in this topic), this is currently, just about, on the right side of the law.....

Check this one out http://bit.ly/riuxRp

Interesting way of twisting the term OEM and pretending to be an honest seller, who still tries to turn a >100% profit on fake items...

Pseudonym

yaya wrote:

Check this one out http://bit.ly/riuxRp

Interesting way of twisting the term OEM and pretending to be an honest seller, who still tries to turn a >100% profit on fake items...

that's a strange one - I can't see how he can get away with selling them with Pinarello branding.....

dodgy

Pseudonym wrote:

yaya wrote:

Check this one out http://bit.ly/riuxRp

Interesting way of twisting the term OEM and pretending to be an honest seller, who still tries to turn a >100% profit on fake items...

that's a strange one - I can't see how he can get away with selling them with Pinarello branding.....

It's rife. This was posted further up this thread.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Full-Carbon-F ... 68c77406b6

Chip \'oyler

derbygrimpeur wrote:

also...

Then again, there's also this fine example of foam filler in place of real carbon that was found on the inside of another brand that touts itself as a champion of new technology and hands-on fabrication. There's enough clay in there to sculpt a small ash tray.

edit: it also doesn't say that the newspaper in anyway damages the carbon's performance. The extra weight aside, what's the big deal? (genuine question as I have now idea of the strength properties etc. of carbon fibre)

Eh! I'm pretty sure you be pissed off if you bought a brand new car and it was stuffed full of newspaper.

Herbsman

Chip \'oyler wrote:

derbygrimpeur wrote:

also...

Then again, there's also this fine example of foam filler in place of real carbon that was found on the inside of another brand that touts itself as a champion of new technology and hands-on fabrication. There's enough clay in there to sculpt a small ash tray.

edit: it also doesn't say that the newspaper in anyway damages the carbon's performance. The extra weight aside, what's the big deal? (genuine question as I have now idea of the strength properties etc. of carbon fibre)

Eh! I'm pretty sure you be pissed off if you bought a brand new car and it was stuffed full of newspaper.

I'd be pleased. In the event of a collision it would help absorb the impact. Why do you think some cars feature 'crumple zones'? They're impact absorbing panels full of crumpled up newspaper.

rolf_f

yaya wrote:

Interesting way of twisting the term OEM and pretending to be an honest seller, who still tries to turn a >100% profit on fake items...

This isn't twisting - it's a lie "The OEM Prince and Dogma Are Identical in shape and Geometry "

Certainly, the fake Dogmas posted here, aside from having round seat posts, are also not at all identical in shape to the real thing in many other ways. They are pretty approximate to the extent that they aren't even technically replicas. Look at one next to the real thing and it is pretty obvious (even if you look past the paint jobs which are also fairly approximate).

To some extent, it is a good thing - anyone who buys one thinking it is the real thing will have failed to do their homework.

Crankbrother

I wonder if the numpty with the Livestrong fake managed to 'accidentally' sell it yet ... That was genius, and as i remember got someone banned for pointing the whole scam out ...

guinea

geebee2 wrote:

If these frames were problematic we would have had reports by now.

I have been riding my FM015 for over 6 months now and love it to bits.

I guess I have done about 3,000 miles on UK roads by now, often quite rough.

If someone posts pictures of a failed frame, fair enough, but I suggest ignoring any generalised vague rumours. Why not just accept that the Chinese do know how to make bicycle frames?

My post is directed towards the Chinarellos, not the Chinese no-name frames that many other brands use.

There is definite evidence to say these may be a little suspect.

yaya

derbygrimpeur wrote:

also...

Then again, there's also this fine example of foam filler in place of real carbon that was found on the inside of another brand that touts itself as a champion of new technology and hands-on fabrication. There's enough clay in there to sculpt a small ash tray.

edit: it also doesn't say that the newspaper in anyway damages the carbon's performance. The extra weight aside, what's the big deal? (genuine question as I have now idea of the strength properties etc. of carbon fibre)

Paper can be used instead of (expensive) wax to separate the balloon from the resin/ pre-preg'ed CF layers.

The differences are:

Paper doesn't "stretch" as the balloon expands and therefore may affect the way pressure is applied to the CF layers inside the mould

Wax residues do not affect the structure of the moulded part whereas paper if it stays in can make it a) heavier and b) less flexible (more brittle if you like)

Once again this does not mean that these frames are badly built or that they must be dangerous to ride. However they certainly do not have the same amount of R&D going into their engineering compared to the "real" brands.

Personally I don't have a problem seeing "FM0XY" or whatever model, branded as Ribble, PX, Shorter etc. as long as it does not try to copy an original brand design and to claim that it is as good or as well engineered as the original item

steel42

hi can someone tell me if the fm039 from hogfu is a spesh venge copy, or do i need to go to specsavers

garnett

Just reading a bit about these suppliers - what manufacturers and frames are the most "tried and tested"? I'm toying with the idea of something to replace my 6 year old aluminium Trek frame, and I like the idea of designing my own paintjob - some of the designs in this thread are fantastic.

ademort

Have a look at these on the Dutch cycling forum, some really nice design,s if you ask me.
http://www.fiets.nl/forum/viewtopic.php ... start=1365
Ademort

steel42

really like the one posted by jada on the dutch site

ademort

guinea wrote:

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=90693&start=15

The pictures of the chinarello on page two is enough to ensure I'll never buy one.

I Read this thread with interest as i have one. Funnily enough the second post on page one posted by Starnut says that when the owner of the frame brought it to Him to build on the Sunday, He refused to build it saying that it looked like paper mache. Amazingly the forks sheared off at the headtube on the Monday. Club ride goes ahead as planned on the Wednesday and 10 minutes into the ride the same thing happens with one of there club members Chinarello.s.Page 2 shows us some pictures of the forks with the alleged newspaper sticking out.I have to say that the frame and forks pictured don,t look like any paper mache that i have ever seen Starnut then admits he,s a bike shop owner but is not trying to discredit anybody
What are we all lead to believe is that these Chinese copys are a death trap and could fail at any moment. Buy one at your peril.I,ve looked on this forum and the Dutch and Belgian forum,s and almost everybody is highly delighted with there frame and FORK Would love to know what the seller has done to replace the frame and forks in the above incidents and what explaination, if any was offered. While not wanting to stick my neck out i cannot believe that a bike shop owner could ever describe a frame as being made from paper mache. What conclusions do we have over the above stories, partly true, yes. The pictures show a broken fork, but i cannot see a chinese newspaper sticking out of the forks, can you?We should remember that the vast majority of carbon bicycle parts are made in China and while there are always going to be a minority that slip through the cracks most of the parts will be made to a certain standard. At the end of the day nobody,s kidding anybody. My frame is a Chinarello and bought at a fraction of the cost of a real Dogma. It doesn,t handle the same and probably won,t last as long and is probably not as robust as the real deal. I accept that.
When you consider the amount of frames/ forks imported and the amount of failiures then we still talk about a very small amount. How many Trek,s cannondale,s Bianchi,s e.t.c. fail every year. We don,t see many picture,s of them do we?
Ademort

derbygrimpeur

Chip \'oyler wrote:

derbygrimpeur wrote:

also...

Then again, there's also this fine example of foam filler in place of real carbon that was found on the inside of another brand that touts itself as a champion of new technology and hands-on fabrication. There's enough clay in there to sculpt a small ash tray.

edit: it also doesn't say that the newspaper in anyway damages the carbon's performance. The extra weight aside, what's the big deal? (genuine question as I have now idea of the strength properties etc. of carbon fibre)

Eh! I'm pretty sure you be pissed off if you bought a brand new car and it was stuffed full of newspaper.

Not if I didn't know it was there and it didn't affect performance :roll:

yaya thanks for the explanation - so basically, even though there was some paper in those forks, it's not necessarilly the death-trap scenario that some are making out.

Chaoswill

Just finished my Chinarello for a smidge over £1K and can't be happier.

willowthewhite

steel42 wrote:

hi can someone tell me if the fm039 from hogfu is a spesh venge copy, or do i need to go to specsavers

A trip to specsavers may be in order, but there are some similarities to the venge, and there was mention on roadbikereview that it may be a copy of an early prototype. Have to admit that it is a gorgeous frame and I will be ordering one soon

guinea

Chaoswill wrote:

Just finished my Chinarello for a smidge over £1K and can't be happier.

For under £1k! I guess the Boras aren't real either?

ademort

Chaoswill wrote:

Just finished my Chinarello for a smidge over £1K and can't be happier.

Looks great just watch that the forks don,t break off when you climb on it.
Ademort

garnett

I'm reading with interest, and I see that a lot of people are happy with their bikes. I also can see why bike shop owners might be tempted to discredit avenues that bypass their income streams.

One of my concerns is the flipside of that coin though. As can been seen all over the internet, people generally want to convince others their choice was the right one.

Not many people are big enough to say, "You know what, I made a big mistake".

I've bought stuff from Amazon, with rave reviews and thought, "Really, are they sure? This is crap".

I'm not certain how many people would come on to a forum (especially this one, which seems to have a disproportionate number of people itching to say "I told you so") to tell of a failure.

yaya

derbygrimpeur wrote:

Chip \'oyler wrote:

derbygrimpeur wrote:

also...

Then again, there's also this fine example of foam filler in place of real carbon that was found on the inside of another brand that touts itself as a champion of new technology and hands-on fabrication. There's enough clay in there to sculpt a small ash tray.

edit: it also doesn't say that the newspaper in anyway damages the carbon's performance. The extra weight aside, what's the big deal? (genuine question as I have now idea of the strength properties etc. of carbon fibre)

Eh! I'm pretty sure you be pissed off if you bought a brand new car and it was stuffed full of newspaper.

Not if I didn't know it was there and it didn't affect performance :roll:

yaya thanks for the explanation - so basically, even though there was some paper in those forks, it's not necessarilly the death-trap scenario that some are making out.

One of the images on the weightweenies pages shows bits of paper inside the steerer/ fork crown junction.

It IS possible that the use of paper instead of wax or as a substitute for another layer or two of carbon, causes that area to be more fragile or less flexible and thus it can fail under certain type of impact or maybe even normal use

Again this is not all Black and White and I am sure that there are thousands of these frames being used without any faults. The thing is that if you buy one of these through e.g. Ribble or Planet-X, you at least get some sort of guarantee that if it fails you will be able to talk to someone...I think that there is also a better chance that they apply some sort of QC with their suppliers.

I've searched through some of the eBay shops and saw that almost none comes with a braze-on front mech bracket, saving const and meaning that you have to use a band-on mech...I wonder if the frame comes with instructions on how much torque can be applied when fitting it? That's One area where Carbon can easily fail if not handled properly...