Who on BR has bought a 'cheap' Chinese carbon frame?

gb155

mcrdave wrote:

That looks great gb, well done. Where did you get the stickers done?

£20 , eBay from a chap in Brazil

They are the thick vinal type, so I was told they would be fine without protection

mcj78

Chip \'oyler wrote:

That's a bit like buying a Kia and replacing the badges with Ford ones :shock:

Surely closer to building your own car from scratch using the same components Ford uses, then sticking a Ford badge on it?

Liking the colour scheme - maybe to keep the dissenters happy, as obviously that's why you built it, you should have the word "not" done in a tiny font the same colour & style as the main decals & stick it in front of the "Trek" logo?

Looks good - get some miles on it!

danowat

You can put lipstick, a wig and a dress on a pig, but it'll still be a pig.

I am all for these Chinese frames, however, I really can't see why anyone would want to try and pass it off as brand X, rather than just a self-build

mcj78

danowat wrote:

I really can't see why anyone would want to try and pass it off as brand X, rather than just a self-build

Maybe they aren't trying to fool anyone, maybe they just like the graphics?

danowat

Each to their own I guess, I just don't get it, the frames are good on their own merit, without having to resort to dressing it up like brand X

Chip \'oyler

danowat wrote:

You can put lipstick, a wig and a dress on a pig, but it'll still be a pig.

I am all for these Chinese frames, however, I really can't see why anyone would want to try and pass it off as brand X, rather than just a self-build

+1

ThatBikeGuy

Chip \'oyler wrote:

danowat wrote:

You can put lipstick, a wig and a dress on a pig, but it'll still be a pig.

I am all for these Chinese frames, however, I really can't see why anyone would want to try and pass it off as brand X, rather than just a self-build

+1

Reminds me of those boy-racers i see that dress up the old MR2s to look like Ferraris :roll:

pickled

danowat wrote:

Each to their own I guess, I just don't get it, the frames are good on their own merit, without having to resort to dressing it up like brand X

That was my point from a couple of pages ago, and I got called a tool.
I guess there are plenty of people who want to have ownership of a particlular brand, but aren't willing (or able) to pay for it.

In anycase, seeing as though there are some Chinese workers going on strike in these factories demanding western wages then they aren't going to stay cheap for long!

mcj78

danowat wrote:

Each to their own I guess, I just don't get it, the frames are good on their own merit, without having to resort to dressing it up like brand X

Fair point, i'm thinking of getting one but leaving it matt black 3k or white myself. Seems most of the negative comments about these frames come from folk who've paid substantially more for a frame which would be indistinguishable from one of the far cheaper Chinese jobs in a blind road test, sometimes being exactly the same frame. Pays your money, takes your choice.

J

mcj78

ThatBikeGuy wrote:

Reminds me of those boy-racers i see that dress up the old MR2s to look like Ferraris :roll:

Not exactly an accurate analogy there, more like a car built in the same workshop as a Ferrari, which looks & performs like a Ferrari, but without the badges.

fatboy23

I bought the PXnano with all the sram red gubbins in July last year....loved the bike and the kit was spot on....unluckily I did have an issue in october with a suspicious looking stress mark in the top tube....PX arranged for an immediate swap to a brand new frame without trying to dispute liability hence I avoided claiming from insurance....the bike was couriered back to Rotherham and the kit swapped over and quickly returned to me....not crash damage I might add...

I found a further issue this spring with a failed fork/bottom race.....after a brief exchange of emails and a couple of phone calls PX have sent another courrier and will be again rectifying the issue with a new frame/fork...

the point being that this stuff can happen to anyone with a carbon bike, especially in the world of balls-out racing....and despite PX not being the world's most super-efficient organisation, they have acted with integrity and taken ownership of the problem..

wouldn't really fancy my chances of getting this far with "e-bay man"in this situation...

Chip \'oyler

fatboy23 wrote:

I bought the PXnano with all the sram red gubbins in July last year....loved the bike and the kit was spot on....unluckily I did have an issue in october with a suspicious looking stress mark in the top tube....PX arranged for an immediate swap to a brand new frame without trying to dispute liability hence I avoided claiming from insurance....the bike was couriered back to Rotherham and the kit swapped over and quickly returned to me....not crash damage I might add...

I found a further issue this spring with a failed fork/bottom race.....after a brief exchange of emails and a couple of phone calls PX have sent another courrier and will be again rectifying the issue with a new frame/fork...

the point being that this stuff can happen to anyone with a carbon bike, especially in the world of balls-out racing....and despite PX not being the world's most super-efficient organisation, they have acted with integrity and taken ownership of the problem..

wouldn't really fancy my chances of getting this far with "e-bay man"in this situation...

Not a brilliant example of the build quality of these frames it it?

rolf_f

Chip \'oyler wrote:

Not a brilliant example of the build quality of these frames it it?

But not a statistically meaningful sample set either.

To be fair on Gaz, his bike isn't exactly a convincing fake like that Dogarello Fakema. It might fool the folk in the street but it wouldn't fool anyone who knows the real thing.

Does seem slightly curious to do a bike up in the colours of a charitable institution though. The real replicas apparently earned a donation to the Livestrong foundation of $500 a piece. If I admired something or someone, I wouldn't want to do something they wouldn't approve of (probably!). At least in context anyway

fatboy23

you miss the point I'm afraid Chip...

unless you'vefound a frame that doesn't break at all....ever....

clever lad if you have....chapeaux to ya pal.

Chip \'oyler

fatboy23 wrote:

you miss the point I'm afraid Chip...

unless you'vefound a frame that doesn't break at all....ever....

clever lad if you have....chapeaux to ya pal.

If you'd only encountered damage on one frame I wouldn't have posted. But you've had two of the frames now which have broken. You've either been unlucky or you really do hammer your equipment through loads of riding. Or could it be that the PX Nano frames build quality isn't brilliant?

amaferanga

Chip \'oyler wrote:

fatboy23 wrote:

you miss the point I'm afraid Chip...

unless you'vefound a frame that doesn't break at all....ever....

clever lad if you have....chapeaux to ya pal.

If you'd only encountered damage on one frame I wouldn't have posted. But you've had two of the frames now which have broken. You've either been unlucky or you really do hammer your equipment through loads of riding. Or could it be that the PX Nano frames build quality isn't brilliant?

My Nanolight frame hasn't broken so I can only conclude that the build quality is exceptional. Is that a daft statement to make? About as daft as you speculating that Nanolight build quality is poor....

Ben6899

mcj78 wrote:

Chip \'oyler wrote:

That's a bit like buying a Kia and replacing the badges with Ford ones :shock:

Surely closer to building your own car from scratch using the same components Ford uses, then sticking a Ford badge on it?

Liking the colour scheme - maybe to keep the dissenters happy, as obviously that's why you built it, you should have the word "not" done in a tiny font the same colour & style as the main decals & stick it in front of the "Trek" logo?

Looks good - get some miles on it!

No need really. The weave gives it away.

stephenswindley

well, my FM015 ISP frameset arrived today complete with headset and full carbon handlebars and I have to say it looks B E A utiful. I can't wait to build it up, just need bottom bracket and brakes

buder

danowat wrote:

Each to their own I guess, I just don't get it, the frames are good on their own merit, without having to resort to dressing it up like brand X

+ 1 just dont get that !?

gb155

I'd love to be able to afford a real Project One "Livestrong" but the reality is, I have a disabled wife and 2 kids, so I simply cant.

The message of Livestrong has always spurred and inspired me on in the last couple of years, so I wanted to get that message out to more people, what better way than a set of £20 stickers

Its not done to be deceptive, simply to help spread the word of Empowerment along with my story.

user321

gb155 wrote:

I'd love to be able to afford a real Project One "Livestrong" but the reality is, I have a disabled wife and 2 kids, so I simply cant.

The message of Livestrong has always spurred and inspired me on in the last couple of years, so I wanted to get that message out to more people, what better way than a set of £20 stickers

Its not done to be deceptive, simply to help spread the word of Empowerment along with my story.

Oh snap to the haters!

designman

Wow check this out..... Someone is trying to sell a fake Dogma on ebay - look at that price!! :shock:

Surely that can be built up cheaper.....

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Pinarello-Dogma-non-e-vero-56cm-Campag-Chorus-11spd-/160578300730?pt=UK_Bikes_GL&hash=item2563366b3a#ht_2162wt_1141

cal_stewart

might be wrong but you could built it for around 2k

buder

gb155 wrote:

I'd love to be able to afford a real Project One "Livestrong" but the reality is, I have a disabled wife and 2 kids, so I simply cant.

The message of Livestrong has always spurred and inspired me on in the last couple of years, so I wanted to get that message out to more people, what better way than a set of £20 stickers

Its not done to be deceptive, simply to help spread the word of Empowerment along with my story.

Dont get me wrong Im all for spreading the Livestrong theme. I think these frames are good enough on their own merits without having to badge them as something else but I totally understand what your saying, its your bike you can do what you want with it.

You could just have the Livestrong decals without the Trek I suppose I do think its now a copy of instead of an individual bike build but thats just my opinion.

wevergo

Very nice. Did it arrive painted? Is it a good quality paint finish? Does it have a layer of clear-coat once painted?

Sorry for all the questions [/quote]

Yes, completely painted, good quality.and a layer clear-coat.

kfinlay

Having looked at my finances for this year I don't see a realistic chance of me being able to get a Canyon bike so have came back to consider these chinese frames. I plan on building something that looks a little different (Baum inspired paint design) to make up for it although it will be quite budget spec - Veloce group, Bracciano wheels and Deda cockpit.

I'm most interested in the FM015 non-ISP, (possibly an R838 as an alternative) but have a couple of concerns.
One or two have had problems with the headset and a gap between the fork crown and lower head tube - was this easily overcome by fitting a different headset or was there other work required?
Also is Dhengfu the best supplier for this frame?
Lastly anything else I should consider I've read ALL the threads here and RBR too but there's so much info I might have forgotten something!
TIA

buder

kfinlay wrote:

Having looked at my finances for this year I don't see a realistic chance of me being able to get a Canyon bike so have came back to consider these chinese frames. I plan on building something that looks a little different (Baum inspired paint design) to make up for it although it will be quite budget spec - Veloce group, Bracciano wheels and Deda cockpit.

I'm most interested in the FM015 non-ISP, (possibly an R838 as an alternative) but have a couple of concerns.
One or two have had problems with the headset and a gap between the fork crown and lower head tube - was this easily overcome by fitting a different headset or was there other work required?
Also is Dhengfu the best supplier for this frame?
Lastly anything else I should consider I've read ALL the threads here and RBR too but there's so much info I might have forgotten something!
TIA

aslong as the headset is adjusted properly what problem will this gap cause apart from the elements getting in.

kfinlay

buder wrote:

kfinlay wrote:

Having looked at my finances for this year I don't see a realistic chance of me being able to get a Canyon bike so have came back to consider these chinese frames. I plan on building something that looks a little different (Baum inspired paint design) to make up for it although it will be quite budget spec - Veloce group, Bracciano wheels and Deda cockpit.

I'm most interested in the FM015 non-ISP, (possibly an R838 as an alternative) but have a couple of concerns.
One or two have had problems with the headset and a gap between the fork crown and lower head tube - was this easily overcome by fitting a different headset or was there other work required?
Also is Dhengfu the best supplier for this frame?
Lastly anything else I should consider I've read ALL the threads here and RBR too but there's so much info I might have forgotten something!
TIA

aslong as the headset is adjusted properly what problem will this gap cause apart from the elements getting in.

Frames use integrated headsets so the gap is minimal but ona couple of the frames the gap is much bigger so looks wrong and makes it look like the forks/headset were not fitted correctly. Functionally they may be okay but I don't believe they were designed to have such a big gap when others with the same frame look/fit much better. I just want to know if I buy a frame and have this issue is it something I need to live with or is there some way of reducing the gap. Fair question I reckon

buder

kfinlay wrote:

buder wrote:

kfinlay wrote:

Having looked at my finances for this year I don't see a realistic chance of me being able to get a Canyon bike so have came back to consider these chinese frames. I plan on building something that looks a little different (Baum inspired paint design) to make up for it although it will be quite budget spec - Veloce group, Bracciano wheels and Deda cockpit.

I'm most interested in the FM015 non-ISP, (possibly an R838 as an alternative) but have a couple of concerns.
One or two have had problems with the headset and a gap between the fork crown and lower head tube - was this easily overcome by fitting a different headset or was there other work required?
Also is Dhengfu the best supplier for this frame?
Lastly anything else I should consider I've read ALL the threads here and RBR too but there's so much info I might have forgotten something!
TIA

aslong as the headset is adjusted properly what problem will this gap cause apart from the elements getting in.

Frames use integrated headsets so the gap is minimal but ona couple of the frames the gap is much bigger so looks wrong and makes it look like the forks/headset were not fitted correctly. Functionally they may be okay but I don't believe they were designed to have such a big gap when others with the same frame look/fit much better. I just want to know if I buy a frame and have this issue is it something I need to live with or is there some way of reducing the gap. Fair question I reckon

Sorry didnt mean to suggest your making a fuss about nothing.

Reason I asked is one of intrigue as you seem to have read something I was recently looking for. I have a Planet X SL PRO and I have this gap but at the top so between the top bearing cover and top of headtube its about 3.5mm I got to the stage where I had the thing apart took pics and sent them to planet x. I was on the verge of sending it back as It was bothering me, its like the bearing recess in the top tube isnt deep enough there is only one very thin shim in use so its not a question of removing them either.

Ive decided now to leave it my lbs have looked at it and aslong as its adjusted ok bearings seated correctly etc its cosmetic. Id rather not have the gap but to me its not worth taking it any further now the bike is all setup.

Still pisses me off but nothing I can see I can do about it.

nickwill

Getting back on topic.
I think some of my comments have been slightly misinterpreted.
I have no problem with anyone buying a cheap frame. I do think it's wrong to present it as a Pinarello or other brand. As someone who is not brand minded I would prefer it to be labelled as Deng Fu or whatever the name of the manufacturer is. If a frame is being produced to a minimal budget then I would prefer that that budget was concentrated on producing the most functional frame for the money from the given materials rather than being spent on cosmetic details which make it look like a more expensive frame. The carbon fibre layup on a lookalike frame is unlikely to be the same as say a Dogma, so echoing its shape is likely to compromise its performance. Its performance might still be quite acceptable, but not as good as if it had been designed in a more honest way. To me good design comes from form following function and I'm not sure this will be the case with lookalikes.
(This leaves aside my objections to the intellectual copyright theft involved in stealing a brand name belonging to someone else.)