Who on BR has bought a 'cheap' Chinese carbon frame?

danowat

DesWeller wrote:

designman wrote:

Anyone know if I can purchase Carbon Clinchers from "carbonzone"?

I was looking at these carbon clincher rims (or shallower variants thereof) on the eBay for ~£200, but then I stumbled across these and changed my mind as that seems like great value and much better suited to actually being used.

Apples vs Elephants there, the Mavics will be heavy, and they have a much higher spoke count too, would be good for training wheels, but you wouldn't want to do anything speedy or climby on them.

desweller

Well, you say that, but rim weight is 470g, which is not that weighty really. I have not been able to find much lighter without going tubular. The CFRP rims are substantially heavier than that.

Unless you spend silly money, low spoke count rims are usually heavier as the rim has to provide more of the strength of the wheel.

Source: Weight Weenies

stephenswindley

If you want a clincher with light rims I would have thoguh shimanos rs80 carbon laminate wheels would be good for that, they are £100 pounds more than those mavics but not what I would call silly money.

desweller

Yesss, but it's a pain replacing the rims when the time comes. I'm fed up with ditching a load of spokes every time the rim wears out.

designman

I'm looking for some 38 or 50mm carbon clinchers if possible.

copper585

found this seller on ebay carbonxsports anyone used before? prefer their painted up frames and the handlebars compared to the just black carbon

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/carbonxsports/index.html

designman

Wow love the replica "Dogma 60.1" on carbonxsports.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Full-Carbon-Fiber-Road-Racing-Bike-Frame-Fork-50-56-/150590257574?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&var=&hash=item68c77406b6#ht_1260wt_949

Anyone bought this?

the_prophet

see, that, i think is definatley taking things a bit far. fair enough, a plain carbon frame be it a copy or not, but to have one fully decalled up as a dogma is not right is it?? its a fake. how can they get away with it. I guess its just the same situation as replica watches, but still.

yaya

I think that somebody at eBay needs to wake up...they have rules against this kind of fraud...

It could be stolen or fake or whatever...it needs to be policed somehow!

designman

It's excellent - A replica Dogma for £500
Better than spending £3000+ on the real thing

yaya

This must be some kind of a joke...or not...

http://www.carbonxsports.com/frames/roa ... -fork.html

http://pinarello.com/eng/about_fake.php

DF33

designman wrote:

Wow love the replica "Dogma 60.1" on carbonxsports.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Full-Carbon-Fiber-Road-Racing-Bike-Frame-Fork-50-56-/150590257574?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&var=&hash=item68c77406b6#ht_1260wt_949

Anyone bought this?

This is what could bring these frame deals crashing down.

It's one thing to copy a frame design as it's difficult to patent frame angles etc, and leave to the buyer to decide that a 'T4457' = say, a pinarello xxx. Same quality carbon, geometry, quality etc. Everybody is happy (except Pinarello).

But when a dealer blatantly sticks on 'Pinarello xxx' decals and colours then Pinarello, or whichever manufacturer is the clone, will be seriously p1ssed off and will no doubt chase it up.

Problem is they will then try to go further than that and close the door to extra production runs going out of the back door unbranded too and whatever else.

It's in everybodys interest to buy from someone like the few companies mentioned on this thread that simply give a frame model number and don't bootleg branded decals and also to boycott stuff like the above.

If you want to add Bianchi or whatever decals yourself when in the UK thats up to you I suppose. It's still fraud and fake and given the apparent quality of these frames why would you want to?

It's probably only a matter of time we'll be proud to have 'CARBONZONE' etc decals in the tubes instead in their own right.

mcrdave

This is what could bring these frame deals crashing down.

It's one thing to copy a frame design as it's difficult to patent frame angles etc, and leave to the buyer to decide that a 'T4457' = say, a pinarello xxx. Same quality carbon, geometry, quality etc. Everybody is happy (except Pinarello).

But when a dealer blatantly sticks on 'Pinarello xxx' decals and colours then Pinarello, or whichever manufacturer is the clone, will be seriously p1ssed off and will no doubt chase it up.

Problem is they will then try to go further than that and close the door to extra production runs going out of the back door unbranded too and whatever else.

It's in everybodys interest to buy from someone like the few companies mentioned on this thread that simply give a frame model number and don't bootleg branded decals and also to boycott stuff like the above.

If you want to add Bianchi or whatever decals yourself when in the UK thats up to you I suppose. It's still fraud and fake and given the apparent quality of these frames why would you want to?

It's probably only a matter of time we'll be proud to have 'CARBONZONE' etc decals in the tubes instead in their own right.

Yeah I agree, a step too far. Ironic though that the fake replica would probably be lighter than the real Pinarello.

designman

And lighter on the pocket

Monty Dog

There's some brilliant photos over on the RBR thread where someone has painted one of these frames as a "Chinarello Dogpoo" I'd pay more money for one of those than the 'fake'

rolf_f

Monty Dog wrote:

There's some brilliant photos over on the RBR thread where someone has painted one of these frames as a "Chinarello Dogpoo" I'd pay more money for one of those than the 'fake'

That sounds cool! (Links would be good) - I think I'd pay more for that as well. As for the other - fake bike for fake people.

titch124

ok, i have read through a few of these threads and have a few questions


does getting a custom paint job cost extra?

do you have to get a special type of bottom bracket for a carbon frame

how difficult are the headsets to fit (read a few complaints) would it be easier to get a LBS to do it if i got them to fit a BB at the same time

i think thats all for the moment but im sure will have more questions later

im very tempted to get one of hese

andyrr

titch124 wrote:

ok, i have read through a few of these threads and have a few questions


does getting a custom paint job cost extra?
Yes - price obviously varies with complexity. Some people seem to provide the frame supplied with very detailed instrucitons, others seem to be loosed and go with the flow a bit.

do you have to get a special type of bottom bracket for a carbon frame
Nope - the frames are typically std BSA as any other frame but many are now comign with the possibility of BB30 - check the seller.

how difficult are the headsets to fit (read a few complaints) would it be easier to get a LBS to do it if i got them to fit a BB at the same time
This seems to be one of the major difficulties for people. Often the frame supplier seems to provide the wrong hs for the frame.

i think thats all for the moment but im sure will have more questions later

im very tempted to get one of hese

cal_stewart

mcrdave wrote:

This is what could bring these frame deals crashing down.

It's one thing to copy a frame design as it's difficult to patent frame angles etc, and leave to the buyer to decide that a 'T4457' = say, a pinarello xxx. Same quality carbon, geometry, quality etc. Everybody is happy (except Pinarello).

But when a dealer blatantly sticks on 'Pinarello xxx' decals and colours then Pinarello, or whichever manufacturer is the clone, will be seriously p1ssed off and will no doubt chase it up.

Problem is they will then try to go further than that and close the door to extra production runs going out of the back door unbranded too and whatever else.

It's in everybodys interest to buy from someone like the few companies mentioned on this thread that simply give a frame model number and don't bootleg branded decals and also to boycott stuff like the above.

If you want to add Bianchi or whatever decals yourself when in the UK thats up to you I suppose. It's still fraud and fake and given the apparent quality of these frames why would you want to?

It's probably only a matter of time we'll be proud to have 'CARBONZONE' etc decals in the tubes instead in their own right.

Yeah I agree, a step too far. Ironic though that the fake replica would probably be lighter than the real Pinarello.

LMAO

bandofbrothers

hi can anyone tell me what exactly i have to do after purchasing one of these chinese frames?
im currently using an entry level alu road bike with shimano groupset and i want a carbon frame.
can i just bring my current bike and the chinese carbon frame over to the LBS and just ask them to switch the frames?

thanks in advance

nochekmate

bandofbrothers wrote:

hi can anyone tell me what exactly i have to do after purchasing one of these chinese frames?
im currently using an entry level alu road bike with shimano groupset and i want a carbon frame.
can i just bring my current bike and the chinese carbon frame over to the LBS and just ask them to switch the frames?

thanks in advance

Learn how to do it yourself - it's not that difficult and there is plenty of information/videos on the net. You'll get a sense of satisfaction out of it too! The cost of doing this from your LBS will cover the cost of the few basic tools that you will need to do the job.

stardude

has anyone got a set of these?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300543612469&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT



or would i perhaps be better buying this set with hubs and skewers included for an extra £40

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300546584085&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

EKIMIKE

At 800g those rims are unbelievably heavy...

nickwill

Maybe I'm missing the point here. Just because the frame is the same shape as the original, surely it doesn't mean that it is of the same quality and specification. There was an article in Procycling this month re the differences between basic and better quality frames. Many of the differences stem from the quality of the carbon fibre and its lay up. I would imagine that a cheap copy of a Pinarello would be analogous to a fake Rolex. It might look the part for a while but functionally would be in a different ballpark.
At the very least some of these frames are the result of copyright theft and on that basis their purchase is of dubious morality.

stardude

EKIMIKE wrote:

At 800g those rims are unbelievably heavy...

the add for just the rims says 630g?

what sort of weight would you be looking at for a pair or rims like that? i.e not full carbon clinchers

wicked

Nickwill wrote:

Maybe I'm missing the point here. Just because the frame is the same shape as the original, surely it doesn't mean that it is of the same quality and specification. There was an article in Procycling this month re the differences between basic and better quality frames. Many of the differences stem from the quality of the carbon fibre and its lay up. I would imagine that a cheap copy of a Pinarello would be analogous to a fake Rolex. It might look the part for a while but functionally would be in a different ballpark.
At the very least some of these frames are the result of copyright theft and on that basis their purchase is of dubious morality.

Maybe, be will you notice the difference in quality? It's a bike not a F1 race car.

nickwill

I can certainly tell the difference between different bikes. I would rather buy a bike on ride characteristics than one that is mediocre to ride, but looks like an expensive model. There is also the issue of safety.

wicked

Nickwill wrote:

I can certainly tell the difference between different bikes. I would rather buy a bike on ride characteristics than one that is mediocre to ride, but looks like an expensive model. There is also the issue of safety.

You best pay £3.5K then for a "real" one which may have even been made in the same factory. So you would not buy a De Rosa R838? Or a Cube? Or Ritte? All chinese open mould frames with what must be very expensive stickers put on. Where do we draw the line?
It would be very interesting if we could try out these frames against the real thing to see if we could tell which one was real though wouldn't it?
What Pinarello sell these things for is a blatant rip off, I shudder to think what the mark up must be. For the less money you can have a hand made frame from a real artisan.

nickwill

I'm looking in from the outside!
I have a made to measure steel frame. I've seen too many people who have bought cheap carbon fibre frames who have sold them within a year because they were uncomfortable, flexible in the wrong areas or in one case had developed cracks.
There are good budget and mid range carbon fibre frames to be had from firms like Kuota, Planet X and Ribble.
There is surely no need to buy a knock off copy of an expensive frame where any budget has gone in to 'me too' styling rather than producing the best possible characteristics from the material in hand. It just speaks of confused priorities to me.

cal_stewart

nick the point is the r838 frame is the same weather its a ribble, de rosa or a FM015 if you look at the price different between the ribble and the FM015 and take into account ribbles mark up etc its hard to believe its not the same carbon. Plus with Chinese factory's there not going to start making unsafe frames as there's more money to be made selling direct. If one fails the word will spread faster than you can say R sys.

Plus if i win the lotto I'll buy one real dogma and the Chinese one and get them tested. I'll do the sawing my self.