Giro: Stage 20 "Spoiler"

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  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    provisional GC anyone?
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • takethehighroad
    takethehighroad Posts: 6,821
    Only a second between Nibbles and Scarponi for the podium. Shame he can't TT
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    General Classification after Stage 20
    1 Ivan Basso (Liquigas) 87:23:00
    2 David Arroyo (Caisse d’Epargne) + 1:15
    3 Vincenzo Nibali (Liquigas) + 2:56
    4 Michele Scarponi (Androni) + 2:57
    5 Cadel Evans (BMC) + 3:47
    6 Richie Porte (Saxo Bank) + 7:25
    7 Alexandre Vinokourov (Astana) + 7:31
    8 Carlos Sastre (Cervélo)


    scarponi and nib battle for the podium there

    can't se evans putting a min into them all here..he needs 50 secs... hmmmm going to be interesting
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Porte has hung in well for the entire race. Don't see him much, but he's never far off.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    TakeTheHighRoad wrote:
    Only a second between Nibbles and Scarponi for the podium. Shame he can't TT

    scarponi cant descend like nibs either...using the technical side of the torricelle for the descent
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    afx237vi wrote:
    Porte has hung in well for the entire race. Don't see him much, but he's never far off.


    did a ride....

    all the jerseys spread about amongst the ozzies

    red white and green....


    Gadret was a mild revelation but he is stuck with danger man label without any real ability to power away from the strong men...marked

    going to be difficult to get away in future tours


    Arroyo deserved his podium place..


    man of the match for the whole Giro is Evans by a country mile
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mooro
    mooro Posts: 483
    mididoctors wrote:
    man of the match for the whole Giro is Evans by a country mile

    interesting to hear what his problems were mid giro, evidently we will find out tomorrow.

    Will he now ride the tour ? or have another go at the vuelta?

    I thought Sastre was going to pull something out of the bag today, but obviously didnt have it in him
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    He certainly was outstanding on several stages.
    However, I'm not sure I'd give him the man of the match by a country mile tag.
    Think I'd give that to Angie Zomegnan for his course.

    A whole fistful of riders have made a massive contribution to the overall quality of the race.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • deejay
    deejay Posts: 3,138
    Dave_1 wrote:
    glad they went ahead with today stage among the snowy banks of the Gavia, will never forget the way they cancelled a major mountain stage that the great Fignon would have won the 1984 Giro on. Seeing the stuggling for voice Fignon as a pundit a week back on RAI shows what respect he still has at the Giro and how things have moved from then and 1987
    I want Mctwit the Irishman to be left up the Gavia at this time of year to sort himself out without any help.
    1995 they moved the Vuelta to September and after some of the Giro history has been made.
    The epic win of Erik Breukink over the Gavia in 1988 and still the dumb Irishman keeps this race two weeks earlier than 1988. How thick is that.???

    Put this race back the two weeks and let the TOC have it's own spot.
    Riders in the Dauphine and those in the Tour of Swiss can only ride one of them because of a one day overlap.
    Run the two at the same time then but put the Giro back "quote" 26th May - 16th June 1991
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972
  • deejay
    deejay Posts: 3,138
    mididoctors wrote:
    man of the match for the whole Giro is Evans by a country mile
    what, after he sits there in a group yesterday and wheelsucks yet again and then gets told he is losing GC positions.
    Who today has a brainstorm to attempt to gain some time he lost yesterday

    Man of this Giro for me is Vicenzo Nibali who was taken off the plane to California and has just got on with it without any sign of bitching.
    He seems very 8) 8)
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    He certainly was outstanding on several stages.
    However, I'm not sure I'd give him the man of the match by a country mile tag.
    Think I'd give that to Angie Zomegnan for his course.

    A whole fistful of riders have made a massive contribution to the overall quality of the race.

    yeah everyone made a good show of it
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    actually very little negative riding apart from the final few days....
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    deejay wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    man of the match for the whole Giro is Evans by a country mile
    what, after he sits there in a group yesterday and wheelsucks yet again and then gets told he is losing GC positions.
    Who today has a brainstorm to attempt to gain some time he lost yesterday

    Man of this Giro for me is Vicenzo Nibali who was taken off the plane to California and has just got on with it without any sign of bitching.
    He seems very 8) 8)

    nibs was good and held back a bit for team duties BUT

    would he be 5th on GC if evans and him traded team places

    they are only 50 secs apart and TTT is more than that already


    would basso even be on the Podium in that exchange...?

    one man on virtually every stage even the supposed easy ones......
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    He certainly was outstanding on several stages.
    However, I'm not sure I'd give him the man of the match by a country mile tag.
    Think I'd give that to Angie Zomegnan for his course.
    .

    the course was a good test but circumstances and the riders attitude made it a classic..

    the winner had to contend with; flatland riding in crosswinds, bad cold days, hot days unmade roads, high tempo long stages, aggressive attacking..especially from the french which made a change..

    it was a good all round test that was won by the strongest team

    hardly a stage without incident of some import to the GC
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Tom Butcher
    Tom Butcher Posts: 3,830
    For attacking riding throughout it'd have to be Vino followed by Scarponi - those two are the ones of the GC contenders that took chances.
    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • Le Commentateur
    Le Commentateur Posts: 4,099
    can't se evans putting a min into them all here..he needs 50 secs... hmmmm going to be interesting
    He has to believe he can, otherwise he might just as well use the TT as a warm down ride. Still time for one of them to fall off — who knows what might happen, but he needs form, belief and a bit of luck perhaps.
    Un uomo solo al commando
  • Bugly
    Bugly Posts: 520
    Deejay do you actually know anything about racing? :shock:
  • dougzz
    dougzz Posts: 1,833
    I'm tired of the wheel sucking allegations against Cuddles. The guy is a one man team, where's the team support for him, why isn't it wheel sucking for Basso to sit behind his entire team for most of the race?

    Too many people confusing facts of racing with the riders they 'like'
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    dougzz wrote:
    I'm tired of the wheel sucking allegations against Cuddles. The guy is a one man team, where's the team support for him, why isn't it wheel sucking for Basso to sit behind his entire team for most of the race?

    Too many people confusing facts of racing with the riders they 'like'

    +1 at least.

    With a good team he would have won two Tours and maybe a Vuelta. Those who accuse him of wheel--sucking ignore that fact that those wheels belonged to Rasmussen, Landis, Basso, Vino, Armstrong etc.

    Personally, I think he's probably the most unheralded rider in my lifetime.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • inkyfingers
    inkyfingers Posts: 4,400
    RichN95 wrote:
    +1 at least.

    With a good team he would have won two Tours and maybe a Vuelta. Those who accuse him of wheel--sucking ignore that fact that those wheels belonged to Rasmussen, Landis, Basso, Vino, Armstrong etc.

    Personally, I think he's probably the most unheralded rider in my lifetime.

    + 2

    I must confess to having completely changed my mind about Evans in the last 12 months. I'm glad that he is at least now getting some plaudits and a few good wins (WC/Fleche/Giro stage) to add to his Palmares.
    "I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)
  • Team Banana Spokesman
    Team Banana Spokesman Posts: 538
    epic giro. so fecking epic.

    people will be talking about this in years to come. in the future we'll all be talking about the 2010 giro to our grandkids. it will go down in history as a classic.

    puts last years tdf into perspective now. boring neutralized garbage.

    deejay. what's your beef with wheelsucking? it's called tactics.
  • top_bhoy
    top_bhoy Posts: 1,424
    deejay wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    man of the match for the whole Giro is Evans by a country mile
    what, after he sits there in a group yesterday and wheelsucks yet again and then gets told he is losing GC positions.
    Who today has a brainstorm to attempt to gain some time he lost yesterday

    Man of this Giro for me is Vicenzo Nibali who was taken off the plane to California and has just got on with it without any sign of bitching.
    He seems very 8) 8)
    Did you really think that Cadel said to himself, 'I'm nearly 4 minutes behind on the road now, I'll wait until tomorrow, the 2nd last stage, before I try to get it back?'. He was cooked and nearly lost it altogether on the final descent at one point when he just stayed on the road. Only a supreme physical effort and a huge amount of determination and guts, got him back into the chasing group. I agree with some of the comments made by others towards your viewpoint.
    Click here to view Top_Bhoys Pedal Force:
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  • LangerDan
    LangerDan Posts: 6,132
    deejay wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    man of the match for the whole Giro is Evans by a country mile
    what, after he sits there in a group yesterday and wheelsucks yet again and then gets told he is losing GC positions.
    Who today has a brainstorm to attempt to gain some time he lost yesterday

    Yesterday was far more to do with defending the points jersey than "gaining some time". Evans had a lead of only 10 points over Vino going into the stage. If Vino placed second and Evans got worked over in the bunch sprint, he'd have lost the lead. Evans and Vino were relatively evenly matched in the first Giro TT so its unlikely there would have been any change possible today.
    'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'
  • Tom Butcher
    Tom Butcher Posts: 3,830
    Evans is more attacking than he used to be - but lets not go over the top - he's not been particularly aggressive in this Giro. The truth is he's ridden a fairly sensible but conservative race - yes he's not had much of a team there but then who has apart from Liquigas.
    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • avoidingmyphd
    avoidingmyphd Posts: 1,154
    Tom Butcher wrote:
    Evans is more attacking than he used to be - but lets not go over the top - he's not been particularly aggressive in this Giro. The truth is he's ridden a fairly sensible but conservative race - yes he's not had much of a team there but then who has apart from Liquigas.
    Seriously, how aggressive do you want him to be?
    bettiniphoto_0052609_1_full_150.jpg
  • Tom Butcher
    Tom Butcher Posts: 3,830
    Seriously - why do you think he was more aggressive than say Vino or Scarponi ?

    I think he rode a sensible race - nothing against him - but he doesn't stand out as an aggressive or particularly gutsy rider. Was it on the Zoncolan that Scarponi pushed on and then blew up while Evans followed the wheels - sensible but not heroic. Yesterday when Vino and Sastre got in a break - took real risks - or on Friday when Vino wanted to push on with Arroyo. I don't see Evans doing these things. OK he attacked yesterday - but with a couple of k to go with nothing to lose - if he'd been a gambler he'd have gone earlier and tried to win the stage - but he might then have blown up and finished lower.

    As I say - he's ridden a sensible but conservative race.
    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • avoidingmyphd
    avoidingmyphd Posts: 1,154
    Oh, I don't necessarily think he's more aggressive than Vino! But to characterise his race as conservative is plain wrong.
    Your post sums it up nicely: gambling and riding aggressively are not always (although yes sometimes: simoni yesterday) the same thing. Cadel isn't much of a gambler, but he does ride aggressively when it will benefit him. There's a whole different argument about whether this has been true historically, but I'm sure it's true in this race.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    One thing is for sure - the scenery was simply spectacular. Just watching the heli-shots up and down the Gavia as well looking at the photos is quite breathtaking.

    No other sport parallels this one.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Tom Butcher
    Tom Butcher Posts: 3,830
    avoidingmyphd wrote:
    Oh, I don't necessarily think he's more aggressive than Vino! But to characterise his race as conservative is plain wrong.
    Your post sums it up nicely: gambling and riding aggressively are not always (although yes sometimes: simoni yesterday) the same thing. Cadel isn't much of a gambler, but he does ride aggressively when it will benefit him. There's a whole different argument about whether this has been true historically, but I'm sure it's true in this race.

    I disagree - in cycling I think gambling and riding aggressively are pretty much the same thing - how are they not ?

    Anyway you've said yourself he isn't much of a gambler - so presumably you'd agree that his strategy has been risk averse - that's a fair summation of not taking a gamble ? If that isn't conservative what is ?
    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • avoidingmyphd
    avoidingmyphd Posts: 1,154
    Tom
    you can gamble non-aggressively - like letting Vino go in a break (no way to tell what will happen).
    or you can ride aggressively without gambling - like contador on a summit finish (every time he goes, he's almost certain to take time out of almost all his rivals, and he knows in advance almost for sure that it won't backfire).

    so gambling and aggression aren't the same thing.
    But it's true that the combination, aggressive gambling, is an option that some riders take, and that we all love to watch.

    We could use the word conservative to mean not gambling, or not riding aggressively.
    Cadel is conservative in the first sense, but not in the second. It would make for great viewing if he gambled a bit more often. Whether or not it would do him any good depends on his ability to assess risk.

    I'm surprised you called him not particularly gutsy in response to a picture showing his ride on stage 7, but gutsiness is, I realise, a whole different issue!

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