Floyd -- he wrote us a letter...
Comments
-
A thought here: Isn't Floyd really just Richard Virenque all over again? Both denied it. both wrote a book claiming their innocence. And then both eventually came clean. Of course, Richard Virenque was welcomed back by ASO, UCI and the French with open arms (I've never understood why).0
-
Hey Andrew,
Thanks for facilitating the meeting with USADA, I met with them on Tuesday in LA but kept the other riders anonymous for the moment because I'm trying to negotiate amnesty for the guys that want to clear their conscience but I did admit to what I've done and offered to help make the testing better with my knowledge. They like to destroy athletes publicly and I think that is counter to their stated mission so it's going to be difficult to get. In the mean time Dr. Kay who owns Ouch has taken over as title sponsor of the Bahati Foundation team and has, months ago, bought a VIP tent for the last day of TOC and has strong interest in having the team in the TOC. Therefore I think it reasonable, in the event that you cannot add his team to the TOC, that you refund the 40K that Dr Kay has paid for the tent since, for one he has been snubbed from the race and moreover the 40K along with all of the other money that you leverage from small American teams ends up deposited directly into Lance Armstrongs account as an appearance fee.
Dr Kay, the Bahati Foundation, and I have no desire to help finance that endeavor in the event that there is no place for the Ouch team in the race especially considering that there are going to be many racers, on those small American teams, who are paid less than 15K a year and have no medical insurance so that their teams can afford to pay their way into the TOC just to have it handed to Mr Armstrong. This system has no value to the hard working, clean racing, aspiring American racers who are caught up in it, and my wealthy friends including Dr Kay and I have no desire to help to perpetuate this unidirectional flow of money. I have several opportunities for raising money for your race but it doesn't make sense to me or my good friend Dr. Kay to put any more money or effort into helping you or cycling for that matter if there is no chance of adding one more team to the 2010 TOC. Please let me know if that is a possibility at this point before I go into any more detail.
Thanks
Floyd Landis
this is the most 'threatening' bit I could find ie. I will talk about the riders if we don't get in? but there are many possible interpretations.
ps. had to laugh when i read this..This email is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy, delete and trash all copies of the original message. Thank you.0 -
If the film is based on those emails then it's going to a Pulp Fiction style ending first, then beginning, then a bit of the middle.....Warning No formatter is installed for the format0
-
Doobz wrote:mididoctors wrote:
He wanted to Race the TOC. Organiser said no and he started spilling the beans
he does directly threaten Messick
the guy is an idiotThank you for clarifying the position of the Tour of California on these subjects. I just wanted to be sure that I gave you the opportunity to be involved in cleaning up cycling as I have with so many in positions of power such as Steve Johnson and Jim Ochowitz but as I expected the Tour of California is interested in the status quo as were they and I wish you all luck with that. I certainly understand that my revealing that Lance Armstrong has relied on blood doping, EPO, and anabolics to win the three Tours de France in which I helped him will jeopardize your substantial investment in facilitating his appearance so from a business point of view I understand fully.
However from a moral and ethical standpoint we stand in stark contrast. Thanks again for connecting me with Travis Tygart.
Floyd
OTOH hand look at the formatting... was the moral standpoint sentence originally split that way
kinda changes the meaning of the paragraph slightly"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
I think LA and Johan are shitting themselves - there are without a doubt other emails / letters that have been sent that RS are not in receipt of -
Publishing those emails by RS I presume is just another way for the system to try and make out that Landis is a c0ck..
0 -
Not a lot of real content here, other than the reference to Armstrong threatening this Kay bloke. If this is an attempt at 'blackmail' it is an incredibly feeble one. However
Who the fek is Brent W. Kay, M.D. and what does he know about cycling?
He says of Landis:
"To get rid of the top guy at usada, wada, uci, and eliminate the lab are amazing accomplishments. Of course the dissolution of the French lab and all the new testing standards is testimony to the success of your endeavor to overhaul the corrupt anti-doping system."
Did I miss something?
"We know you didn’t do anything wrong and that you won the Tour de France fair and square."
Not according to Landis he didn't!
Kay also says:
"you still have the whole hip story (which remains untapped)"
An eye on replicating the PR scam that is the LAF? Pity hips don't evoke the sort of response that cancer does amongst the American population.0 -
afx237vi wrote:mididoctors wrote:
I just skim-read it, but if there is supposed to be a smoking gun there that damns Landis, er, I'm failing to see it.
How did Radio Shack get Messick's emails? And why are there no emails from RS or Armstrong. There is clearly a dialogue going on, but we're only seeing what Landis and Kay said.
Yeah, I skim-read until I lost interest. The one thing I took from it was that the style of Landis's emails are very different to his 'mea culpa' e-mail, good spelling and grammar etc, which adds to something that I mentioned earlier that his confession/allegations seems as though it has not been thoroughly thought through and checked.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Really? In France Virenque is a laughing stock, fodder for 'I'm a celebrity get me out of here type shows' and was mercilessly mocked on the French version of 'Spitting Image'. His garbled phrase about 'doping without knowledge of my own free will' has become a popular French idiom meaning hypocritical denial.donrhummy wrote:Of course, Richard Virenque was welcomed back by ASO, UCI and the French with open arms (I've never understood why).0 -
BikingBernie wrote:Who the fek is Brent W. Kay, M.D. and what does he know about cycling?
He's the head of OUCH and a Landis's personal doctor. I thought an obessive such as yourself would know such things.Twitter: @RichN950 -
I'm assuming the messick emails were CC to A RS staff member?"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0
-
I can't believe Livestrong are actually posting up these emails in their defence - do they really think it makes them look good (either via the content of the emails or otherwise)?
I'm off to lie down in a darkened room, after I've picked my jaw off the floor. All I wanted to to was watch some men race bicycles!0 -
RichN95 wrote:
Yeah, I skim-read until I lost interest. The one thing I took from it was that the style of Landis's emails are very different to his 'mea culpa' e-mail, good spelling and grammar etc, which adds to something that I mentioned earlier that his confession/allegations seems as though it has not been thoroughly thought through and checked.
yeah the confession Email is a different state of mind..."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Has Landis posted pics of refrigerated motorcycle panniers on his facebook page yet ?
This is all so tawdry...0 -
Just goes to show that I am not as 'obsessive' as some apparently like to think.RichN95 wrote:
He's the head of OUCH and a Landis's personal doctor. I thought an obessive such as yourself would know such things.BikingBernie wrote:Who the fek is Brent W. Kay, M.D. and what does he know about cycling?
0 -
If this is the best Armstrong's lot can come out with, then just maybe this story will have legs after all.disquieting_museeuws wrote:I can't believe Livestrong are actually posting up these emails in their defence - do they really think it makes them look good (either via the content of the emails or otherwise)?0 -
They are posting faster than I can read 'em, over in the CN "clinic".
The general consensus is that LA's lawyers have made a huge faux pas by this limited e mail release.
Rather than discredit Landis, they have the opposite effect.
An absolute PR disaster, not to mention they have opened the door to a possible criminal investigation, through the blackmail angle..........."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
All I can see is that Armstrong has upped the stakes. On his twitter (I'm not so good with twitter) he seems to say he never replied to any of the mails... but.... Dr Kay references a conversation with him, I find it difficult to imagine that Dr Kay sent all that stuff with no reply whatsoever. So there is more to come, I'm sure, possibly from Landis' own email archives, or those of Dr Kay.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0
-
Blazing Saddles wrote:They are posting faster than I can read 'em, over in the CN "clinic".
The general consensus is that LA's lawyers have made a huge faux pas by this limited e mail release.
Rather than discredit Landis, they have the opposite effect.
An absolute PR disaster, not to mention they have opened the door to a possible criminal investigation, through the blackmail angle...........
I agree 100%... This is a major mistake by the Lance team. I do believe that there is a substantial amount of truth in Landis' emails and the content of the emails that Lance's team posted to undermine Landis actually highlight that there were shenanigans going on behind the scene. These shenanigans were either explicitly or implicitly designed to hide dirt coming out. Nothing in those emails suggest that Armstrong, the ToC organisers or anybody else was going to assert that what Landis was going to say was false.
The stated bad-mouthing by Armstrong of Landis (references to alcoholic etc) clearly demonstrate fear on Armstrong's part.**************************************************
www.dotcycling.com
***************************************************0 -
This is classic Lance.
Put something out there, but think just putting it out there is enough. Is this the 3'rd time since his comeback? First Don Catlin, then putting blood results up, now this.
They all sound good, until you actually bother looking at them.
He's also fluffing it because he's still treating it like a PR exercise rather than something that could result in him being someones girlfriend in a federal prison.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
I can't believe i spent 20 minutes reading through those... Landis wanted to ride California, met with USADA official, his boss asked Lance to get him a ride... This discredits him how?"In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
All this dirty laundry in public. So, so sad.
0 -
If you read nothing else, you HAVE to read Dr. Kay's letter to Floyd. Wow. Weird. Crazy.Floyd,
I met with Andrew Messick yesterday and had the opportunity to discuss some of the current issues that we are facing. We discussed a variety of issues and I will try to address as many of these as possible. I have always stood behind you from the time of your hip fracture and always felt very fortunate to have been a part of the ride to the top but also a great sense of obligation and duty to see it through during the last 4 catastrophic years. The only thing I really asked of Mr. Messick is that we call a truce for a couple days and would ask that you treat Lance and others with basic respect and professionalism for the next few days to give us a little breathing room to try to figure this whole thing out.
Despite countless challenges and a million reasons to abandon your cause I could never live with myself if I gave up. That is until now. I am a dead man walking and there is nothing left, everyone around us is dead or dying and I feel like something very bad is going to happen to me. I try my hardest to put on a show that I still care but it is all rapidly leaving my mind and body. You know this to be true as you have watched me cry recently during several of our discussions, and I haven’t cried in 40 years. This is killing my family and I need out.
Nobody will ever understand what you have been through except a small group, primarily our wives and I. Nobody will ever know how bad you were f--ked over except us. We are going to stand behind you no matter what, we still love you and always will. We know you didn’t do anything wrong and that you won the Tour de France fair and square. We want you back and away from all the bitterness, anger and hatred. We all feel a great sense of remorse and wish that we could have done a better job to support you but we gave you everything we had. We do not feel like you put us through this, we know how bad it hurts you that everyone had to endure this but rest assured we know it was not your fault.
But now I am going to ask you to do some things that you do not want to do. I am asking you to do these for me, Amber and Kim. No suggestions or recommendations, I am asking you to do me a big favor. You said you would like to someday pay back everyone that has supported you; this is your opportunity to pay us all back a hundred times over. I know that you do not want anything out of this but there are certain things I believe you deserve, basic human dignity being the most important.
My idea is completely in line with your adamant stance that you do not want anything out of this. I completely understand that you don’t want or need money out of this. Despite all the expert’s calculations on how you lost $20 million on this whole thing I know you need nearly nothing to live. You always talked about how your dad would never spend a dime on anything and you have the same trait, I understand that you need almost nothing to survive. I know you are true to your word after Lance accused Rahsaan of some conspiracy and/or extortion scheme and your first decision was to have the press conference immediately to prove that wrong. I take great pride in the fact that I was able to talk you out of that.
So to speak, I don’t think anyone is calling your bluff now. I am trying to make that very clear to everyone involved; Floyd has nothing to lose and he does not care about any consequences of his actions. In this matter I can only hope that I am successful. I have had a very hard time explaining this position but I suppose you just can’t explain it unless the person you are talking to has gone through it.
Anyway my personal interpretation of the situation is that cycling has repeatedly tried to “s--t you out” (for lack of a better term) and that is not how you are willing to let it go down. Despite all the positive changes that you personally have affected in the anti-doping system nobody will ever give them credence with your history. To get rid of the top guy at usada, wada, uci, and eliminate the lab are amazing accomplishments. Of course the dissolution of the French lab and all the new testing standards is testimony to the success of your endeavor to overhaul the corrupt anti-doping system.
My idea is based on a “win-win” philosophy. Of course I am no legal expert so I guess it has to go through an attorney or Lance’s attorneys have to say it’s completely fine and acceptable or something. If there is any issue about this being unlawful or some kind of wrong doing then I absolutely want out of the whole deal right now and will leave cycling for good. Its ok, I don’t have to continue. Have your press conference and be done with it, we will still be here for you. I have put my family through hell with all this and I will not be part of any illegal or inappropriate scheme. I’m satisfied with my experience and accomplishments in cycling now and there is much more out there in the world for me. I never did anything wrong and won’t start here.
The “win-win” would extend to all parties; you, Lance, usada, usac, tour of California, etc. The fight against doping would continue. The Tour of California would continue, etc. etc. It’s a simple straightforward idea and, if anything, selfish on my part. I want all these things to happen, I want you happy, I want Lance happy, I want cycling happy, I want to continue the fight against doping in sports, I want my kids to get the pleasure of seeing you and Lance together. I want you to introduce them to Lance. They were 10, 12 and 13 years old when this started and now the oldest is going to college. This has been a major part of their life, from the broken hip to the victory to the downfall. They deserve this opportunity and they deserve to be set free from all the anger, hatred and bitterness that you and I hold onto. They love you and think the world of you and are very proud to tell their friends they know you. That’s hardcore given everything we have put them through.
I am not sure Lance would even consider this but Mr. Messick did say they were willing to work with you on this. The idea is very simple and focuses primarily on basic human dignity. Like I said before, I think cycling owes you an apology and that of course is far too vague to ever happen. Although you have never said it and maybe don’t even realize it, I think what you need most is for everyone to say they are sorry that you were the fall guy, sorry that you had to take the bullet, sorry you were set-up, sorry your life was completely ruined and sorry for not doing more for you. If this was one of the top American sports, a union would have shut the other side down and none of this would ever happen. Maybe that is your calling in life when you finish riding-form and run a cycling union in the states so nobody ever has to go through this again.
Anyway my idea is for you to ride with lance on his team, have them work to re-build your image and be fairly compensated as a Tour de France Champion. Everyone, particularly the fans, would love to see this. I’m pretty sure that both you and Lance will not want to do this and that is why I am asking you to do it for me and my family. I think you have done enough good things now and have just about regained all of your champion form that they should be able to figure out the media part of it. They are the biggest and best in the world at that stuff so while it might be very challenging it should not be that difficult with your current story; you recently started working with a foundation helping black inner city kids, you have regained your previous form, you still have the whole hip story (which remains untapped) and you are a strong anti-doping advocate. In addition there never was an international arrest warrant so when this comes up it is just another lie from that lab. Don’t forget that lab tried to f--k Lance too.
You would have to chill out on that team and just do your job. You have worked with them before and everything could be settled in advance. Keep it simple and just agree to do a few races, maybe with the focus on winning the vuelta and tour of California the next couple years. I told Mr. Messick that you have no interest in doing the tour de France again as I’m sure this would be a major concern of theirs. I think you should be compensated as a former tour de France champion; I do not have much of a frame of reference with cycling salaries outside being involved with the domestic teams recently. I do know that several guys of much lower status make a million a year or so, I would hope it would be much more than this. I do not want to be involved in any type of negotiation on price, maybe you guys pick a couple top rider’s (like Cavendish/wiggins/contador) salaries and average them and that’s the number.
If you guys agree then maybe you ride for ouch until the tour de france is over and make an announcement after that time and then go ride the vuelta. I am willing to do whatever it takes to make this work.
As far as my new team I don’t really care if you leave or not so that is not an issue. Otherwise if either side does not like this idea just throw this in the trash and be done with it, have the press conference and get it over with. But, once again, I’m asking you to do this for me and my family so we can move on with our lives and leave all the anger, hatred and bitterness behind. Thanks Floyd.0 -
Blazing Saddles wrote:They are posting faster than I can read 'em, over in the CN "clinic".
The general consensus is that LA's lawyers have made a huge faux pas by this limited e mail release.
Rather than discredit Landis, they have the opposite effect.
An absolute PR disaster, not to mention they have opened the door to a possible criminal investigation, through the blackmail angle...........
Maybe that's the case, but the CN forum is like 30 BikingBernies converging into a little cult. You're not going to get any balance from them. You need to mellow out and stop hanging out there.
Ultimately, I can't see much in the e-mails. This whole affair will just be a personally slanging match unless some journos pull at the threads that Landis has exposed and see if everything unravels or if it's just a little thread.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Umm only skimmed the middle of that one, that's incredible!
Something terrible will happen if this isn't resolved...
Floyd rides for RS for a Cav, Wiggins, CONTADOR (??) salary...
This whole thing is absolutely crazy. I always has US cycling down as some odd little cottage industry built around South California nd a few cafes in Boulder. If the Italians could match this for mrkiness i'd be stunned.
God bless the internet!"In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
Sorry Guys just in from work what have i missed - Whats this "own goal" by lance's team ?
Dont know if any of you guys heard the Paul Kimmage / Pat McQuaid interview even my girlfriend thought that McQuaid sounded if he was armstrong's personal apologist - The Bit were he said we will take anyone's money relating to the fact armstrong paid £88.000 for a machine to help them drug test , is it me or does anyone else thinks this stinks. what other sport in their right mind would take a personal handout from a current professional...it's a bit like saying i paid for it so remember the next time you test me my test gets lost ?0 -
Armstrong has denied on Twitter that he ever replied to any of the emails. Yet Kay begins one email with:
Hi Lance,
Just wanted to follow-up on our discussion 2 days ago. Following our discussion I am well aware... etc etc etc0 -
Enjoyed this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmRHDqYh ... youtu.be&a
There are serious ethical issues in this email release aren't there? The word 'confidential' appears at least once - were those who wanted their confidentiality respecting consulted?
Armstrong really must be dizzy by now from all the spin - no wonder he fell off his bike
0
