Paris - Roubaix *spoiler*

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  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    msw wrote:
    thoughts on why Boonen attacked so much? I can imagine a few reasons but I don't know which is most likely to be right

    3) he was just trying to put the hurt on the rest of the race in general and force a selection, weeding out some competition to see what happened with the side benefit that it would probably be Cancellara who had to chase him down.
    Exactly. Only he didn't manage to force a selection, he just made a bunch of riders work to get back on his wheel. So when Cancellara went, they others were a) tired and b) expecting Boonen to jump again.

    Boonen often makes tactical mistakes like this, expending energy at the wrong moment.
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    iainf72 wrote:
    Riis is trying to get Chinny to ride Amstel and LBL as he's got the form.

    Chinny ain't convinced.

    I'd like to see him at least attempt it. Hell, if he fails, it'll help to show people that he is in fact human after all.

    The conversation here would be interesting if he won LBL though :lol:
  • davelakers
    davelakers Posts: 762
    I havent read the whole thread thoroughly, but has Cancellara ever been implicated in any doping scandals during his career?
  • OffTheBackAdam
    OffTheBackAdam Posts: 1,869
    When Sparticus jumped, the rest didn't chase for long before they realised that they were only racing for second!
    A great performance by all, Hammond's obviously got great form and Flecha gave it his best shot to chase alone & found he hadn't got the legs to do it.
    As for whether Fabio does the LBL and/or the Amstel, I guess depends on his targets for the rest of the year.
    Remember that you are an Englishman and thus have won first prize in the lottery of life.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    msw wrote:

    I'm new to watching this sort of race so I may be missing something obvious, but what are everyone's thoughts on why Boonen attacked so much? I can imagine a few reasons but I don't know which is most likely to be right:

    SNIP

    And he seems to have a point about the chase group racing for second, too. Weren't there 3 or 4 in that group who could have beaten Cancellara in a sprint had it stayed together?

    Boonen did too much but some of that stems from largely being isolated.. I think he also suspected chinny was not as strong as the previous week..he certainly showboated that impression.. he also surged on the back of skys work too lose Breschel and other Saxo riders which needed to be done...cervelo could have helped a tad more early on perhaps but sky hit the front hard as saxo started to fade so it seemed to be unfolding reasonably well except cancellara looked extremely comfortable the whole day...

    Boonen got that wrong..

    basically he fooked up

    the way I saw it was that Boonen needed fresh legs to go with cancellara when he went... but not ride as he did at flanders.. cancellara sits up and a selection of a 6-12 riders hit the velodrome no doubt after after flecha is brought back trying to nip off with Hoste et al... pozzato sits in for the free Italian cobble..which he did anyway.

    Boonen wins the sprint (or maybe thor who knows) but the lesser riders are still in it with a hope of nipping off towards the end if boonen sits on cancellara
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    davelakers wrote:
    I havent read the whole thread thoroughly, but has Cancellara ever been implicated in any doping scandals during his career?

    Not in a major way. His prepatore was Luigi Cecchini (coach and friend to Ullrich, Basso, Dekker, Hamilton) and some are convinced one of the codenames in Puerto is his but that's never been proven.

    Dodgy teams too.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    mididoctors wrote:
    cervelo could have helped a tad more early on perhaps but sky hit the front hard as saxo started to fade so it seemed to be unfolding reasonably well except cancellara looked extremely comfortable the whole day...

    Chinny did say Boonen attacks hurt him. So I think Boonen was getting it right but he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • davelakers
    davelakers Posts: 762
    iainf72 wrote:
    davelakers wrote:
    I havent read the whole thread thoroughly, but has Cancellara ever been implicated in any doping scandals during his career?

    Not in a major way. His prepatore was Luigi Cecchini (coach and friend to Ullrich, Basso, Dekker, Hamilton) and some are convinced one of the codenames in Puerto is his but that's never been proven.

    Dodgy teams too.

    Cheers for that.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    davelakers wrote:
    I havent read the whole thread thoroughly, but has Cancellara ever been implicated in any doping scandals during his career?

    not really

    but would you be that surprised?

    for the moment I'm only really interested in talking about the race as it was seen...as it were


    what had garmin to say about it all? they had a mare.
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • thinbo
    thinbo Posts: 93
    are there any video highlights anywhere on the web? Recorded the race on V+, but it missed off the last 10k! bummer, Must have been beacuse it was running behind schedule.
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  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Breschel has trashed his knee and quit the race.

    Off for a scan in Denmark.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    iainf72 wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    cervelo could have helped a tad more early on perhaps but sky hit the front hard as saxo started to fade so it seemed to be unfolding reasonably well except cancellara looked extremely comfortable the whole day...

    Chinny did say Boonen attacks hurt him. So I think Boonen was getting it right but he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    not as much as they hurt himself! :lol:

    I think the wrong place was at Paris Roubaix

    and the wrong time was with Fabian Cancellara on the 11th april 2010
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    I'm sure if Boonen had gone the Flecha route and ridden for 2nd, he would've got 2nd.

    :wink:
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Anyway, Cancellara can count himself lucky Boassen-Hagen is injured.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    iainf72 wrote:
    I'm sure if Boonen had gone the Flecha route and ridden for 2nd, he would've got 2nd.

    :wink:

    that would have been comical

    as they would have all sat up

    cancellara would win by 5mins

    plus and chasing groups containing hincapie etc regrouping on the back for a 20 man sprint in the velodrome for second!

    now that would create a hell of lot more finger pointing

    :lol:
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    iainf72 wrote:
    Breschel has trashed his knee and quit the race.

    Off for a scan in Denmark.

    He was still going? At this time of night? :)
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    74 finishers..

    Garmin one finisher Masskant in 22nd....
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Cumulonimbus
    Cumulonimbus Posts: 1,730
    Some others finished but werent classified because they were outside the time limit. Farrar was one of those, 'finishing' 84th

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/garmin- ... by-crashes
  • andyrac
    andyrac Posts: 1,197
    RichN95 wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    Breschel has trashed his knee and quit the race.

    Off for a scan in Denmark.

    He was still going? At this time of night? :)

    Ha ha, I thought that as well....... :wink:

    ...though maybe Garmin still are riding....what a disaster for them.
    All Road/ Gravel: tbcWinter: tbcMTB: tbcRoad: tbc"Look at the time...." "he's fallen like an old lady on a cruise ship..."
  • mroli
    mroli Posts: 3,622
    I don't think Cancellara made it into an anti-climax - I thought what he did was amazing.

    I wouldn't blame just flecha either - there were a lot of riders there wheel sucking a lot more - flecha came through and did (admittedly v short) turns and also attacked at c15km out which is a damn sight more than a number of other riders did.

    Hushovd had support in Hammond, but didn't do a turn - he was just waiting. Pozzatti did nothing apart from keep pushing Boonen forward. Leukmans ditto.

    I'm I guess what you would call a Sky fan and I am disappointed at all of the bunch for not closing down the amazing break and making it a proper race - I think more of the Shanaze Read attitude from the Olympics (where she could have settled for silver, but risked it all for gold) was needed.

    I also think that the really interesting thing about this is how Sky's marginal gains thing doesn't really work in pro cycling. Basically, you can have all the marginal gains you like, but if the things that you can't control (weather, other teams don't work with you, punctures, mechanicals etc etc), then you are fooked.
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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    mroli wrote:
    I don't think Cancellara made it into an anti-climax - I thought what he did was amazing.

    I wouldn't blame just flecha either - there were a lot of riders there wheel sucking a lot more - flecha came through and did (admittedly v short) turns and also attacked at c15km out which is a damn sight more than a number of other riders did.

    Hushovd had support in Hammond, but didn't do a turn - he was just waiting. Pozzatti did nothing apart from keep pushing Boonen forward. Leukmans ditto.

    I'm I guess what you would call a Sky fan and I am disappointed at all of the bunch for not closing down the amazing break and making it a proper race - I think more of the Shanaze Read attitude from the Olympics (where she could have settled for silver, but risked it all for gold) was needed.

    I also think that the really interesting thing about this is how Sky's marginal gains thing doesn't really work in pro cycling. Basically, you can have all the marginal gains you like, but if the things that you can't control (weather, other teams don't work with you, punctures, mechanicals etc etc), then you are fooked.

    Marginal gains works in procycling.

    The only difference between sky and the other teams is that sky give it a name.


    But I certainly felt it was an anti-climax. As much as a 50km solo into a cross/headwind in Roubaix is stunning, it's hardly thrilling racing, watching a guy, on his own, cycle.
    _
  • LangerDan
    LangerDan Posts: 6,132
    To paraphrase Oscar Wilde - "The un-coordinated in pursuit of the unbelievable"

    i'd really like to see someone like Dr. Fred Grappe put some numbers against this.
    'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'
  • rich_pcp
    rich_pcp Posts: 113
    Boonen can moan about not getting enough help but the plain fact is that Cancellara could just ride away from the group effortlessly despite his best endeavours without even raising a sweat.
    As Chris Boardman said of something else, " If it looks unbelievable........"
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Marginal gains works in procycling.

    The only difference between sky and the other teams is that sky give it a name.



    Yup. And Sky have seen a lot more podiums than a lot of other teams - many of whom have a lot more talent on them. I'd say they are doing a lot of the right things.


    Or are at least 'marginally' better than many other teams. :wink:
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    mididoctors wrote:
    74 finishers..

    Garmin one finisher Masskant in 22nd....


    Each way bets pay out down to 22nd don't they? :oops:
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

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  • FJS
    FJS Posts: 4,820
    Boonen made a mess of it, simple. All the pointing towards others that did not do their work in the chase is irrelevant. There were really only two big contenders, one of them the strongest, the other with the fastest sprint. All Boonen had to do was never, ever lose Cancellara out of sight, or give hime even 5 meters. Dropping to the back of that group to 'have a look at the rest of the competition' and losing Cancellara was a major stupidity.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Pokerface wrote:

    Or are at least 'marginally' better than many other teams. :wink:

    The numbers say they're "marginally" worse than average for a PT team

    http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/cqRankingTeam.asp
    :wink:
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    FJS wrote:
    Boonen made a mess of it, simple. All the pointing towards others that did not do their work in the chase is irrelevant. There were really only two big contenders, one of them the strongest, the other with the fastest sprint. All Boonen had to do was never, ever lose Cancellara out of sight, or give hime even 5 meters. Dropping to the back of that group to 'have a look at the rest of the competition' and losing Cancellara was a major stupidity.
    I agree but this was also a team error. QS didn't have a man in the group when their strategy should have been to accompany Boonen and isolate Saxo. Also the radio should have crackled to warn Boonen he was alone and therefore should not have lost Cancellara's wheel.
  • FJS
    FJS Posts: 4,820
    Kléber wrote:
    FJS wrote:
    Boonen made a mess of it, simple. All the pointing towards others that did not do their work in the chase is irrelevant. There were really only two big contenders, one of them the strongest, the other with the fastest sprint. All Boonen had to do was never, ever lose Cancellara out of sight, or give hime even 5 meters. Dropping to the back of that group to 'have a look at the rest of the competition' and losing Cancellara was a major stupidity.
    I agree but this was also a team error. QS didn't have a man in the group when their strategy should have been to accompany Boonen and isolate Saxo. Also the radio should have crackled to warn Boonen he was alone and therefore should not have lost Cancellara's wheel.
    Agreed, with another QS there it would have been very different. But as the situation was, he should never have dropped that far back - it's not up to leaders to drop back to search for domestiques, and I don't think that's what he was doing (I sincerely hope for QS it wasn't) - just a loss of concentration.
  • pedro118118
    pedro118118 Posts: 1,102
    iainf72 wrote:
    Anyway, Cancellara can count himself lucky Boassen-Hagen is injured.

    For all his talent/potential, EBH has not done anything this year to suggest he wouldn't have been blown away with the rest of 'em. Sean Kelly got it spot on, with "If you not on the Swiss train when it leaves the station, it's game over".

    I still can't believe that Boon showed such poor tactical awareness be drifting back through the bunch in the last 50km, opening the door for Cancellara to rip everyone elses legs off.

    Let's just accept the fact that when the big fella is in 100% condition and is motivated, he is pretty-much instopable.

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