sky team .why do they polarize opinion so much .

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  • Roddy
    Roddy Posts: 22
    lets put some common sense into this discussion, for all the pro's and con's of Sky's Pro Racing team, they do put a lot of money onto developing the next generation cyclists whether they be MTBers, Roadies or Track cyclists.

    I accept that Sky could be seen to be jumping on the successful cycling bandwagon at the moment, but if they continue to support grass roots development, then that cant be a bad thing.
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    PauloBets wrote:
    Your bringing up of racism through the quote and picture is a low dirty tactic and shows what a low dirty tactics kind of person you are
    You mean
    'Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.' Samuel Johnson (1775).
    You will have to point out the connection between this quote and racism, as I can't see it. Are you trying to argue that 'patriotism' and 'racism' are synonyms?

    As to the BNP, to speak of them as if they are nothing but a bunch of racists shows an amazing lack of political awareness. As I have already said, 'I would say that the racism of the BNP is one of it's less definitive qualities, being merely a side-effect of it's right-wing, authoritarian nationalism.'
  • finchy
    finchy Posts: 6,686
    DaveyL wrote:
    BikingBernie wrote:
    DaveyL wrote:
    Depends on your definition of "patriot".
    I would say that the only definition that is of consequence here is the one used by the BNP...

    I suppose it is, when you are talking about whether or not the BNP call themselves patriots. The BNP could call themselves anything, whether it fit the correct definition or not, depending on how they themselves define it.

    Quite right. I think the problem is that so many racist idiots hide behind "patriotism", that the two ideas sometimes get confused.

    I would describe myself as being patriotic in that I want the country I live in to be one of fairness and justice, clean, long-termist, well-educated, etc, etc, rather than right wingers who worship a flag, but are happy to live knee-deep in litter and see their fellow citizens sleeping in a doorway.

    Coming back on topic, I can't stand Murdoch and his crappy little rags. However, seeing as the entire peloton probably has a bike computer (And other equipment and clothes) made by someone in China working in terrible conditions, I don't think that the Sky team stand out as a shining light of immorality in the world of cycling.
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Hasn't this thread been Godwinned yet? Nick Griffin is close enough, surely.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,869
    afx237vi wrote:
    Hasn't this thread been Godwinned yet? Nick Griffin is close enough, surely.

    werd
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Richrd2205
    Richrd2205 Posts: 1,267
    I'd like to invoke Godwin's law, this is just daft....
    BikingBernie, "As a former psychology lecturer," you'd surely know the weakness of your own arguments...
    "I for one can't help but think that the human race hasn't evolved one bit since everyone was running around paying homage to the tribal chief, killing anyone who was an ‘outsider’"
    *rolls eyes*
    This is the most right wing comment I've read in this thread. As well as being predicated on a premise that can best be described as "daft."
    Then you paste pictures of Nick Griffin, well done on winning the argument & not looking like an idiot!
    I like your presence here, normally. You have a particular take on stuff which provokes both thought & comment.
    Your comments tonight read like you've had a bottle too much of wine. It's dull & uninteresting & it's, ironically, all the things you claim to hate.
    & please read some social psychology before posting much more.

    FFS, you're far better than this....

    I find it weird that you're trying to assert superiority through dominance. Can you tell me how this isn't the behaviour of those you claim to hate? I'm intrigued...
  • blackpanther
    blackpanther Posts: 221
    I cant believe ive missed this so far!

    Patriosm is diminished by calls of racism by the liberal weak willed packhunting liberal losers happy to bend over for whatever bleading heart cause is the flavour of the month.


    I feel better now. Good night.
  • Richrd2205
    Richrd2205 Posts: 1,267
    blackpanther wrote:
    I cant believe ive missed this so far!

    Patriosm is diminished by calls of racism by the liberal weak willed packhunting liberal losers happy to bend over for whatever bleading heart cause is the flavour of the month.


    I feel better now. Good night.
    'Cos an argument is best defeated by demonstrating more stupidity than the poster you're arguing with?

    Can this thread please be moved to Cake Stop, or the Silly Dogmatic Arguments section?
  • dougzz
    dougzz Posts: 1,833
    Paulobets is a bit Sky crazy as I see it, fine for him, but yeah he's overly insistent on his views. I hope Brad does well, but I don't feel compelled to 'support' Sky because I'm English.

    But Biking Bernie, wow, Paulo is OTT for Sky and you decide he's a right wing this that and the other. Your phony intellectual psycho-babble mumbo-jumbo is crap. As for the bit about many debates on here not being about the facts, DUH... what do you expect in an Internet forum?
  • Tusher
    Tusher Posts: 2,762
    Someone..........anyone................

    Please Put This Thread Out Of It's Misery.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,869
    300px-train_wreck_at_montparnasse_1895.jpg
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,869
    radioactive_idea2c_bk2.jpg
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,869
    crash_p1.JPG
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,869
    extreme-ironing-05.jpg
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,869
    Drama_Llama.jpg
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,869
    3575514572_a699fa4967.jpg
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,869
    its-my-turn-to-blow-the-drama-horn.gif
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,869
    667a7482e868b61c969037111212bc54.jpg
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    stop being such a ......

    509610172_d46e6056e7_o.jpg
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • Tusher
    Tusher Posts: 2,762
    But Mr Gub! Pray, where did you find that photograph of me??
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    edited March 2010
    Richrd2205 wrote:
    I for one can't help but think that the human race hasn't evolved one bit since everyone was running around paying homage to the tribal chief, killing anyone who was an ‘outsider’ to the group and praying to the Sky fairies, sorry, sky fairies!
    This is the most right wing comment I've read in this thread. As well as being predicated on a premise that can best be described as "daft."
    Daft? Well, biologically speaking, the human race hasn't evolved very much over the last 50,000 years or more, other than some people developing a tolerance to cows milk. Human nature is still overwhelmingly dominated by the sort of hierarchical mindset, and a 'natural' hostility to anyone deemed to stand outside of the dominant social norm, that helped early human tribal groups to survive in a hostile world. Also, the last time I looked vast numbers of people still believed in 'sky fairies', be they 'Christians', 'Muslims' or members of some other religious tribal group.
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    Anyhow, back to the original question. Why does team Sky polarize opinion so much? As I have already suggested, I would say that this is largely because to some people, they offer the opportunity to indulge in a bit of 'nationalistic', 'patriotic', call it what you will flag waving, and they couldn't care less about the more unsavoury aspects of the corporation providing the money. On the other hand some people find such flag waving to be rather distasteful, especially in a sport that, unlike a more 'tribal' sport such as football, has traditionally been more about the individual rather than nationalism. Many of these same people clearly also feel that it would be wrong to turn a blind eye to the insidious mind-control of the Murdoch empire, just because Sky is putting a few quid into cycling racing.

    I would further suggest that, for many, the above distinction broadly follows the general political 'world view' of the individuals concerned, hence the 'robust' way many on here have defended their positions.

    As to my suggestion that this is a phenomena found in many 'debates;, including the current one on climate change, this is supported by a recent paper in Nature.

    ...an article published by Nature in January...shows that people tend to "take their cue about what they should feel, and hence believe, from the cheers and boos of the home crowd". Those who see themselves as individualists and those who respect authority, for instance, "tend to dismiss evidence of environmental risks, because the widespread acceptance of such evidence would lead to restrictions on commerce and industry, activities they admire". Those with more egalitarian values are "more inclined to believe that such activities pose unacceptable risks and should be restricted".

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ge-science
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    Or, as Monbiot suggests, it could be partly down to the ever-growing band of ill-educated humanities students. Thankfully we don't have any of them on here!
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    DaveyL wrote:
    Or, as Monbiot suggests, it could be partly down to the ever-growing band of ill-educated humanities students. Thankfully we don't have any of them on here!
    Quite so. (In my own case, my 'psychological' background is firmly grounded in science, in particular neuroscience and the computational modelling of cognitive processes. For my final year project I also had to develop a good grasp on non-linear mathematics and teach myself C programming- which is why my first-class honours degree was a BSc, not a BA. That said, I wouldn't dismiss all ‘humanities’ subjects. My subsidiary subject was philosophy, and I gained an awful lot from it.)
  • nickwill
    nickwill Posts: 2,735
    Well aside from all the 1970s Polytechnic pseudo intellectual moralising.....
    I quite like Team Sky! :lol:
    http://lakescyclist.wordpress.com/
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    and there I was thinking I wasn't a Sky fan because I wasn't a particular fan of any of the riders and disliked the way they behaved last year.

    *shrug*

    We follow a sport sponsored by a couple of taxes on the poor (hi FdJ and Lotto), dictatorships etc etc. Anyone who suddenly gets all moral about a Murdoch sponsored team would be a tool.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    I like to think there's a politics forum somewhere on the the internet where Biking Bernie is constantly posting about how Griepel is going to win Milan San Remo, and nothing about politics.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • dougzz
    dougzz Posts: 1,833
    BikingBernie wrote:
    DaveyL wrote:
    Or, as Monbiot suggests, it could be partly down to the ever-growing band of ill-educated humanities students. Thankfully we don't have any of them on here!
    Quite so. (In my own case, my 'psychological' background is firmly grounded in science, in particular neuroscience and the computational modelling of cognitive processes. For my final year project I also had to develop a good grasp on non-linear mathematics and teach myself C programming- which is why my first-class honours degree was a BSc, not a BA. That said, I wouldn't dismiss all ‘humanities’ subjects. My subsidiary subject was philosophy, and I gained an awful lot from it.)

    Was the Turf Management course fully booked already?
  • dougzz
    dougzz Posts: 1,833
    iainf72 wrote:
    and there I was thinking I wasn't a Sky fan because I wasn't a particular fan of any of the riders and disliked the way they behaved last year.

    *shrug*

    We follow a sport sponsored by a couple of taxes on the poor (hi FdJ and Lotto), dictatorships etc etc. Anyone who suddenly gets all moral about a Murdoch sponsored team would be a tool.

    We all know you secretly lurve EBH................. ;)
  • Rodrego Hernandez
    Rodrego Hernandez Posts: 1,436
    If it wasn't for the money they received for Wiggins, Garmin would be struggling this year and maybe not even make it through. Good move by Vaughters, off load a rider to pay for a whole team. and maybe get some more sponsorship this season.

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