sky team .why do they polarize opinion so much .
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As a former psychology lecturer, I find it interesting that the on-line ‘personalities’ of people like PaulBets so closely resemble the archetype of the ‘right-wing authoritarian’, as developed by people like Theodore Adorno. It's all there: the worship of the powerful and successful (particularly Armstrong in Paulo's case); the strong streak of irrationality, even to the degree of denying the laws of mathematics; the rabid hostility to those perceived to be 'disloyal' to the dominant in-group and so on.Pross wrote:... the attitude of PauloBets and a few others like him is enough to put me off! I have no problem with people getting nationalistic or being fans of a particular team but they also have to respect that others may not share their view without accusing them of being stupid or in some way treacherous.
The bottom line is that many 'debates' on here are more about a conflict of 'world views', personal values and political mind-sets than the 'facts'. I have seen exactly the same phenomena in many other areas of debate, especially in relation to those opposed to more effective levels of speed control and holding drivers to be responsible for their own actions. (I also notice that many people are waking up to the fact that the climate change 'deniers' are driven more by their desire to protect their right-wing 'free market' and 'libertarian' ideologies, rather than any real desire to debate the available evidence).
I for one can't help but think that the human race hasn't evolved one bit since everyone was running around paying homage to the tribal chief, killing anyone who was an ‘outsider’ to the group and praying to the Sky fairies, sorry, sky fairies!
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BikingBernie wrote:
As a former psychology lecturer, I find it interesting that the on-line ‘personalities’ of people like PaulBets so closely resemble the archetype of the ‘right-wing authoritarian’, as developed by people like Theodore Adorno. It's all there: the worship of the powerful and successful (particularly Armstrong in Paulo's case); the strong streak of irrationality, even to the degree of denying the laws of mathematics; the rabid hostility to those perceived to be 'disloyal' to the dominant in-group and so on.Pross wrote:... the attitude of PauloBets and a few others like him is enough to put me off! I have no problem with people getting nationalistic or being fans of a particular team but they also have to respect that others may not share their view without accusing them of being stupid or in some way treacherous.
The bottom line is that many 'debates' on here are more about a conflict of 'world views', personal values and political mind-sets than the 'facts'. I have seen exactly the same phenomena in many other areas of debate, especially in relation to those opposed to more effective levels of speed control and holding drivers to be responsible for their own actions. (I also notice that many people are waking up to the fact that the climate change 'deniers' are driven more by their desire to protect their right-wing 'free market' and 'libertarian' ideologies, rather than any real desire to debate the available evidence).
I for one can't help but think that the human race hasn't evolved one bit since everyone was running around paying homage to the tribal chief, killing anyone who was an ‘outsider’ to the group and praying to the Sky fairies, sorry, sky fairies!
what balderdash above
I don't know what Lance did. He may or may not have done anything bad. Lance is past it now and that is all in the past, so we should do now and the future. So, get this into your brain-Sky have 11 people in the tier of management and 7 or 8 are Brits aren't they? You go count. I rather like the thought of you having to spend your time on their website. They have 26 riders and around another 7 or 8 are Brits-again enough for those with some pride to wish these men well. Another 5 or 6 of the team riders are Anglo Saxon. I am glad they ahve foreign riders as well. Nothing wrong with that. It is quite rare to have such an English speaking team. Why shouldn't we collectively support them given their strong links to the United Kingdom and also with their aim of developing top level British cyclists capable of winning the tour within 5 years? A little patriotism doesn't hurt anyone. Where are you all from given your negative attitude to the sky team and their aim of developing British cycling? Don't forget the British under 23 riders will be recruited into the production line of top quality riders in Sky, in the future, so the ratio will very likely go up.0 -
iainf72 wrote:PauloBets wrote:It is quite rare to have such an English speaking team.
Do you mean aside from Saxo Bank, Garmin, HTC, Radioshack and BMC?
Of those foreign teams, how many of the team and management are British with an Under 23 development team of only British riders being groomed for them?
Why are you avoiding the fact that most of the management at Sky are British or strongly linked to Britain as well as a similar number of riders and connected to a British Under 23 development team. How frivolous your comparison is.0 -
PauloBets wrote:
Why are you avoiding the fact that most of the management at Sky are British or strongly linked to Britain as well as a similar number of riders and connected to a British Under 23 development team. How frivolous your comparison is.
You keep moving the goal posts. Look, you like Sky and you like the "nationalistic" bit of it. Great. I'm pleased you've found something to support. But your constant "you must support them" gets people's backs up. Especially as you can't back any of your arguments up.
As I've stated many times, I don't support them because I don't really like any of the riders on the team. Simples.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
PauloBets wrote:iainf72 wrote:PauloBets wrote:It is quite rare to have such an English speaking team.
Do you mean aside from Saxo Bank, Garmin, HTC, Radioshack and BMC?
Of those foreign teams, how many of the team and management are British with an Under 23 development team of only British riders being groomed for them?
Why are you avoiding the fact that most of the management at Sky are British or strongly linked to Britain as well as a similar number of riders and connected to a British Under 23 development team. How frivolous your comparison is.
Because I don't think (and stop me if i'm putting words in your mouth Iain) he cares where riders come from. He'll make his own mind up on them based on performances, his perception of their "brand" etc rather than where they happened to be born."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
disgruntledgoat wrote:
Because I don't think (and stop me if i'm putting words in your mouth Iain) he cares where riders come from. He'll make his own mind up on them based on performances, his perception of their "brand" etc rather than where they happened to be born.
Exactly. I like Millar and Hammond for example. Millar coz he's a classy rider and Hammond because he's a tough old skool kinda guy. Where they're from is not relevant. If they both went to ride for Sky, I'd still be a fan.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
PauloBets wrote:iainf72 wrote:PauloBets wrote:It is quite rare to have such an English speaking team.
Do you mean aside from Saxo Bank, Garmin, HTC, Radioshack and BMC?
Of those foreign teams, how many of the team and management are British with an Under 23 development team of only British riders being groomed for them?
Why are you avoiding the fact that most of the management at Sky are British or strongly linked to Britain as well as a similar number of riders and connected to a British Under 23 development team. How frivolous your comparison is.
1 out of 3 directeur sportifs isn't most.
Lots of British Cycling staff are working for the team, well they aren't going to turn down free expertise are they. BC are even paying a consultant to help pinerello design a new TT bike.0 -
'Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.' Samuel Johnson (1775).PauloBets wrote:A little patriotism doesn't hurt anyone.
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Talking about stereotypes of online persona - doesn't the loony leftie immediately attempt to demonise any dissenters by labeling them as right-wing fascists, whether it's hyperbole or not?Le Blaireau (1)0
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In its own way your post highlights the very point i was making...DaveyL wrote:Talking about stereotypes of online persona - doesn't the loony leftie immediately attempt to demonise any dissenters by labeling them as right-wing fascists, whether it's hyperbole or not?0 -
BikingBernie wrote:
'Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.' Samuel Johnson (1775).PauloBets wrote:A little patriotism doesn't hurt anyone.
A very unfair and wrong conclusion to draw about me Sir.
To liken me to a racist fascist bigot just because I am a sky team supporter more than others is a low swipe by you, a low blow. You snipe from in the gutter. How much lower can one go than you? To bring skin colour and racism in, how low, how inflamatory you are,a dirty unfair fighter is what you are0 -
A social scientist - it all becomes clear now! :roll:Le Blaireau (1)0
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Oh FFS!
Paulobets, you like sky that's fine. You like to support British teams and sports persons that's also fine. I happen to agree with you. You have the freedom to do that but please allow others the same courtesy.
For some others, to bring racism and the BNP into the thread is shameful. Shame on you. Why do some have great difficulty in understanding there is a difference with patriotism and jingoism. To help I will clarify.
Patriotic-Feeling, expressing, or inspired by love for one's country.
Jingoism-Extreme nationalism characterized especially by a belligerent foreign policy; chauvinistic patriotism.
There are too many in this country that are too keen to pidgeon hole others as jingoistic or racist as a means of silencing them.
Now behave yourselves! It’s the most beautiful sport in the world but it’s governed by ***ts who have turned it into a crock of ****.0 -
I would say that the racism of the BNP is one of it's less definitive qualities, being merely a side-effect of it's right-wing, authoritarian nationalism.wicked wrote:to bring racism and the BNP into the thread is shameful. Shame on you. Why do some have great difficulty in understanding there is a difference with patriotism and jingoism. To help I will clarify.
Patriotic-Feeling, expressing, or inspired by love for one's country.
Appropriately enough, the BNP's newsletter is called the 'Patriot'...
http://bnp.org.uk/resources/patriot-leaflets/
More BNP 'patriots'...
http://www.londonpatriot.org/
http://cumbrianpatriotbnp.blogspot.com/
http://wiganpatriot.blogspot.com/0 -
And where exactly did I mention 'skin colour and racism' you nationalistic, right wing, hero-worshiping, Murdoch apologist?PauloBets wrote:You snipe from in the gutter. How much lower can one go than you? To bring skin colour and racism in, how low, how inflamatory you are,a dirty unfair fighter is what you are0 -
Good lord, Howard in "cherry picking links off the internetz to support his fatuous argument" shocker. Whatever next!Le Blaireau (1)0
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BikingBernie wrote:And where exactly did I mention 'skin colour and racism' you nationalistic, right wing, hero-worshiping, Murdoch apologist?
Is that necessary?Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
Tell you what, why don't you go to your local branch of the BNP and explain to them they are mistaken if they view themselves to be 'patriots'? Personally, I am quite prepared to take them on their word...DaveyL wrote:Good lord, Howard in "cherry picking links off the internetz to support his fatuous argument" shocker. Whatever next!0 -
Totally unnecessary, but par for the course when aurelio/biking bernie/howard is on his 'sword of truth' crusade. :roll:
Honestly, talk about tin foil hats.0 -
Depends on your definition of "patriot", Howard. I don't think they have their country's best interests at heart. They would probably disagree. I guess your definition of patriot is anyone who's a right-wing, hero-worshipping Murdoch apologist? That's not my definition.Le Blaireau (1)0
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This has little to do with you been a 'sky team supporter' and a lot more to do with you coming out with claims such as 'A little patriotism doesn't hurt anyone'.PauloBets wrote:BikingBernie wrote:
'Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.' Samuel Johnson (1775).PauloBets wrote:A little patriotism doesn't hurt anyone.
To liken me to a racist fascist bigot just because I am a sky team supporter more than others is a low swipe by you, a low blow.0 -
I would say that the only definition that is of consequence here is the one used by the BNP...DaveyL wrote:Depends on your definition of "patriot".0 -
Well, he has already declared himself to be a patriot, so that is the 'nationalistic' bit, covered, he thinks the sun shines out of Armstrong's ring and surely anyone who supports team Sky has to make apologies for Murdoch to some extent, otherwise their sense of morality would get in the way of them being a 'fan'.iainf72 wrote:
Is that necessary?BikingBernie wrote:And where exactly did I mention 'skin colour and racism' you nationalistic, right wing, hero-worshiping, Murdoch apologist?0 -
BikingBernie wrote:
And where exactly did I mention 'skin colour and racism' you nationalistic, right wing, hero-worshiping, Murdoch apologist?PauloBets wrote:You snipe from in the gutter. How much lower can one go than you? To bring skin colour and racism in, how low, how inflamatory you are,a dirty unfair fighter is what you are
hero worshipping? who? I am just a sky team supporter, more than others, yes. But you are a low person, who throws the low unfair blows, a cheat, a maker of needless inflammatory remarks, exploiting. How much lower can you go into the gutter?0 -
Your posts read like a 'Daily Mail' editorial. Appropriately enough...PauloBets wrote:you are a low person, who throws the low unfair blows, a cheat, a maker of needless inflammatory remarks, exploiting. How much lower can you go into the gutter?0 -
BikingBernie wrote:otherwise their sense of morality would get in the way of them being a 'fan'.
I think you mean "Your sense of morality would get in the way of them being a fan"Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
BikingBernie wrote:
I would say that the only definition that is of consequence here is the one used by the BNP...DaveyL wrote:Depends on your definition of "patriot".
I suppose it is, when you are talking about whether or not the BNP call themselves patriots. Is this the kind of thing that passes for "logic" in the "social sciences"? It seems rather circular to me. The BNP could call themselves anything, whether it fit the correct definition or not, depending on how they themselves define it.Le Blaireau (1)0 -
BikingBernie wrote:
Well, he has already declared himself to be a patriot, so that is the 'nationalistic' bit, covered, he thinks the sun shines out of Armstrong's ring and surely anyone who supports team Sky has to make apologies for Murdoch to some extent, otherwise their sense of morality would get in the way of them being a 'fan'.iainf72 wrote:
Is that necessary?BikingBernie wrote:And where exactly did I mention 'skin colour and racism' you nationalistic, right wing, hero-worshiping, Murdoch apologist?
but this about the sky debate, not some past it American who may or may not be a druggie. I am just interested in the sky team, you crazy. Also, I don't care about the name on the jersey as long as the money is legal and not killing anyone and benefits cycling. Your bringing up of racism through the quote and picture is a low dirty tactic and shows what a low dirty tactics kind of person you are0
