sky team .why do they polarize opinion so much .
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Up until the 1950s cycling had national teams, riders rode under the flag until the 1950s. But since then we've not national teams.
Most cycling fans come from European countries and often have several teams in their home country, for example as an Italian you can take your pick between several squads. But we've seen Danes get behind CSC and many Americans were "rooting" for US Postal. Sky seems to attract similar ways.
If you like the Sky team, great. But every Brit isn't forced to cheer for them.0 -
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brakelever wrote:for years cycling has been crying out for someone to raise the profile of the sport in this country , now i grant you track cycling has got there, sky come along with a decent budget some fairly good riders !!!!!!!! and loads of people moan why ? :roll: [/url]
It'll all calm down after July I'm sure, although if Wiggo improves on last year it might get even worse. Either way, makes no odds to me and you'll get dicks with dick opinions in all sports. Personally I couldn't care less about any time and more interested in individual riders and the sport in general.0 -
redddraggon wrote:
I didn't have you down as a Rugby league fan Iain
The football Saints
I got nominated as a fan years ago and just pretend to be interested to be manly.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
RichN95 wrote:It's just because we're British and they're British. Everything's either wonderful or terrible. Some people thing everything British is great, others think it's all awful. We don't really do 'all right'.
Look at the England football team. Either they're going to win the World Cup, or they're all degenerates who should be locked up. There's no 'Quarters finals? That seems about par for the course'.
Tim Henman - 'He's going to win Wimbledon' or 'He's just a huge loser'.
NHS - 'Great British Institution' or 'Granny killing house of horrors'
Marmite - well most people are indifferent about that.
Etc, etc...
I always stuck up for Henman when I heard this, and alot of the comments about him and Wimbledon came from people who don't really understand the sport. The guy was the most consistant player this country has ever seen and stayed in the top 10 for the bulk of his career, including 4 semi final appearances at Slams in the same year. Murray's career is too early to say how well he'll do long term but the signs are good and of course he has a bigger game.
UK tennis is the worst it's been for decades and soon people will realise just how good Henman was. and so what if he's not a Slam winner. He's had to contend with some of the best players in the world in his career, i.e. Sampras, agassi etc. I love tennis but I've always hated this countries view on it.
Sorry for the rant.0 -
disgruntledgoat wrote:PauloBets wrote:redddraggon wrote:PauloBets wrote:iainf72 wrote:PauloBets wrote:8 or 9 riders are British, 90% of the management are British
General Manager David Brailsford GBR
Performance Director Shane Sutton AUS
Team Psychiatrist Dr. Steve Peters GBR
Head Coach Rod Ellingworth GBR
Operations Manager Carsten Jeppesen DEN
Sportive Manager Scott Sunderland AUS
Director Marcus Ljungqvist SWE
Director Steven de Jongh NED
Director Sean Yates GBR
4 out of 9 isn't 90%.
That's called maths.
Rubbish math by you. Isn't Shane Sutton British to some extent? Shane Sutton has done many years the UK so 5 out of 9 are British. They hold the hope of British tour success, unlike you. And the English Institute of sport and BC support this team with facilities, video anaylsis like Bradley was talking about the other day on cyclingnews. It's a strongly British themed operation with the aim of the British tour winner. Why can't you support this?
Lol.
So 5/9 = 90%
Your maths is still FAIL
We don't know how many staff are in the background of Team Sky from BC,English Institute of Sport, designers of skinsuits, those involved on bio-mechanics, wind tunnel testing. And at least I want British riders to win and hope a team that supports them do well..unlike you, stupid!
So you admit that you yourself do not know what proportion of the staff are British? So why make the claim? And why is it important if they are British?
Reddragon already said he suported British riders, so why say he doesn't, then why abuse him?
Riddle me this, why should I prefer British riders to those of other nations?
being so sceptical of sky amounts to not supporting British riders. It's definitely 5 out of 9 and much expertise and facilities behind the scenes are from this country. You another one hoping they don't do well? can't wait to see what you say in April when they bag a classic0 -
PauloBets wrote:being so sceptical of sky amounts to not supporting British riders. It's definitely 5 out of 9 and much expertise and facilities behind the scenes are from this country. You another one hoping they don't do well? can't wait to see what you say in April when they bag a classic
You're my new favourite troll Paulo!
Good work.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
"PauloBets wrote:being so sceptical of sky amounts to not supporting British riders. It's definitely 5 out of 9 and much expertise and facilities behind the scenes are from this country. You another one hoping they don't do well? can't wait to see what you say in April when they bag a classic
Kindly explain why not unquestioningly supporting Sky and agreeing with you revery unsupported claim amounts to not supporting British Riders. I pay my BC subs, I buy a racing license, I donate to the Dave Raynor fund and Braveheart FOundation, what do you do to support British riders aside from call people names on here?
Where did you pick up that I hope they don't succeed? As it is, I like Flecha and Swedish Tom a lot. Geraint Thomas too..."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
sampras38 wrote:I always stuck up for Henman when I heard this, and alot of the comments about him and Wimbledon came from people who don't really understand the sport. The guy was the most consistant player this country has ever seen and stayed in the top 10 for the bulk of his career, including 4 semi final appearances at Slams in the same year. Murray's career is too early to say how well he'll do long term but the signs are good and of course he has a bigger game.
UK tennis is the worst it's been for decades and soon people will realise just how good Henman was. and so what if he's not a Slam winner. He's had to contend with some of the best players in the world in his career, i.e. Sampras, agassi etc. I love tennis but I've always hated this countries view on it.
Sorry for the rant.
I agree with you completely. I was just using him as an example of how anything British is either brilliant or rubbish and never "pretty good"
As you know about tennis, I'll ask this question (which is on topic, sort of)? What sort of impact has the success of Henman, Murray and Rusedski had on grass roots participation in the UK, particularly with regard to tournaments and club memberships (youth and adult) and the building of facilities.
Winning the Olympic Gold medal in 1988 did wonders for my sport, hockey. And we're all hoping that the best England/GB team for 25 years will give us another boost.
I ask this because I contend that a successful Sky team, even if it is achieved by foreigners, will increase participation in the sport in the UK and increase support for races of all categories.
(Of course, a lot of cycling clubs are unwelcoming to newbies, so it'll probably be nightmare scenarion for them).Twitter: @RichN950 -
There isn't a polarization. It's an overhyped myth fostered by trollers on both sides of the coin.
They're just the same as any other team in the peloton - some people may like their style (or aspects of it e.g. cycling, managerial, commercial, promotional), some don't. Some like some of their individual riders, some don't. And that's it. Same with Saxo Bank, Euskatel, Liquigas, AG2R, Garmin etc.
Don't let the forum get dragged down into ever decreasing circles of shite by clear attempts to disrupt threads on a daily basis by the likes of PauloBets.0 -
PauloBets wrote:being so sceptical of sky amounts to not supporting British riders. It's definitely 5 out of 9 and much expertise and facilities behind the scenes are from this country. You another one hoping they don't do well? can't wait to see what you say in April when they bag a classic
You're ignoring what everyone is saying - cycling is a sport about the rider not the team.
It is not about "not getting behind the 'British' team" but rather you don't really support teams per se. It's about the athlete that goes out and attacks when he's already operating near his limit.
Team culture has originated from sports where matches are 1 v 1. It is strange to support teams when there are 20 present and teams collaborate. Of course, you're entitled to take a team-centric approach but really you're in the minority. I cycle around in Liquigas gear - peter sagan and Ivan Basso are the only names I can think of from the team and I don't even like Ivan Basso.The British Empire never died, it just moved to the Velodrome0 -
Well said 8)stagehopper wrote:Don't let the forum get dragged down into ever decreasing circles of shite by clear attempts to disrupt threads on a daily basis by the likes of PauloBets.0 -
I wonder how much negativity there would have been had the team been called Team Eddie Stobart (randomly picked!) or another British based company who was willing to pump in the kind of money that Sky have?
I'm not fussed about "Team Sky", but I am interested in the majority of British riders. Now whilst those British riders in Team Sky may not win races, I'm still happy for the team if one of the other riders do. In the same way I'm happy when I see Charly Wegelius (cue arguments that Charly is Finnish) at the front working his arse off - if his team mate wins part of that win is down to the work that Charly put in. So I'm happy is Sky win.
As for the comparisons with football and whether Team Sky are a British team....... I'd say they're more of a British team than say Arsenal or Liverpool.0 -
fastercyclist wrote:PauloBets wrote:being so sceptical of sky amounts to not supporting British riders. It's definitely 5 out of 9 and much expertise and facilities behind the scenes are from this country. You another one hoping they don't do well? can't wait to see what you say in April when they bag a classic
You're ignoring what everyone is saying - cycling is a sport about the rider not the team.
It is not about "not getting behind the 'British' team" but rather you don't really support teams per se. It's about the athlete that goes out and attacks when he's already operating near his limit.
Team culture has originated from sports where matches are 1 v 1. It is strange to support teams when there are 20 present and teams collaborate. Of course, you're entitled to take a team-centric approach but really you're in the minority. I cycle around in Liquigas gear - peter sagan and Ivan Basso are the only names I can think of from the team and I don't even like Ivan Basso.
But no other team has the aim of getting a British Tour winner within 5 years so that should win more support for the team concept sky offer.0 -
RichN95 wrote:sampras38 wrote:I always stuck up for Henman when I heard this, and alot of the comments about him and Wimbledon came from people who don't really understand the sport. The guy was the most consistant player this country has ever seen and stayed in the top 10 for the bulk of his career, including 4 semi final appearances at Slams in the same year. Murray's career is too early to say how well he'll do long term but the signs are good and of course he has a bigger game.
UK tennis is the worst it's been for decades and soon people will realise just how good Henman was. and so what if he's not a Slam winner. He's had to contend with some of the best players in the world in his career, i.e. Sampras, agassi etc. I love tennis but I've always hated this countries view on it.
Sorry for the rant.
I agree with you completely. I was just using him as an example of how anything British is either brilliant or rubbish and never "pretty good"
As you know about tennis, I'll ask this question (which is on topic, sort of)? What sort of impact has the success of Henman, Murray and Rusedski had on grass roots participation in the UK, particularly with regard to tournaments and club memberships (youth and adult) and the building of facilities.
Winning the Olympic Gold medal in 1988 did wonders for my sport, hockey. And we're all hoping that the best England/GB team for 25 years will give us another boost.
I ask this because I contend that a successful Sky team, even if it is achieved by foreigners, will increase participation in the sport in the UK and increase support for races of all categories.
(Of course, a lot of cycling clubs are unwelcoming to newbies, so it'll probably be nightmare scenarion for them).
What sort of impact have they had..probably none. How ironic that we supposedly have the biggest Slam in the world and generally, apart one one exception, can't play for sh8t. The LTA is a joke and run by out of date bigwigs who think throwing money at the problem will get them a Slam winner. If that was the case, how come the likes of serbia, Argentina and Russia for example can churn out world class players? it's because these youngsters use the sport to get out of the crap social situation they are in, and have the motivation to do what it takes to get there. We, in contrast, are spoilt, have everything on a plate and no real desire to be the best. Countries like lithuania and serbia spend a fraction of what we spend on tennis.
I used to work for the ITF many years ago and saw it for myself. It's a cultural thing and something I don't honestly think we will ever change. In the UK it's still an elitest sport that attracts people with money, rather than talent. I've been a member of 3 tennis clubs over the years and they were/are all full of em.
The shambles of last week's Davis Cup loss won't be enough to change things. They'll probably just sack John lloyd in a few weeks and use him as a scapegoat.0 -
PauloBets wrote:
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PauloBets wrote:
So aside from "standing up" for Sky riders, how do you support British Riders? Marshalling on weekends? Organising events?"In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
Don't feed the troll 0
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Wow, this is warming up. It's getting like a Lance thread
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Says who? Read Dutch cycling forums and you'll find that so much of their interest in the sport centers around Rabobank. Read Danish cycling forums and you'll find the same wrt Saxo-Bank.redddraggon wrote:Cycling is about riders, not teams, why cannae you see that?0 -
Yes, but no trolls treating those who chose not to support the perceived 'national' team as traitors.samb01 wrote:
Says who? Read Dutch cycling forums and you'll find that so much of their interest in the sport centers around Rabobank. Read Danish cycling forums and you'll find the same wrt Saxo-Bank.redddraggon wrote:Cycling is about riders, not teams, why cannae you see that?0 -
iainf72 wrote:
Can you define "english"?
Is someone born in Belgium with an Australian father, for example, English? Or are they "british"?
Commonwealth Games test. If Bradley had chosen to ride for Australia then I would consider him Australian. He didn't spend too much time in Belgium, grew up mostly in London and lives nr Manchester. He's English to me.http://www.georgesfoundation.org
http://100hillsforgeorge.blogspot.com/
http://www.12on12in12.blogspot.co.uk/0 -
Top_Bhoy wrote:
I see you have found another subject you know nothing about...congratulationsMoray Gub wrote:Rangers and Celtic fans are brought up and thrive on bigotry hatred and sectarianism and have been for 100 years to compare any cycling fans of whatever team to them is ........well its just not cricket
Even the most ignorant of OF fans (and there are a few of them ) know exactly what they are all about and what they represent, you cant hide 100 years of bigotry and sectarianism even if you wanted too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0L8YtCFzqzQ
but anyway back to the cycling discussing the OF makes me feel unwell Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
All this bickering over whether it's British or not. :roll:
Now correct me if I am wrong but I was under the impression that this team was created by British Cycling as an offshoot of their track cycling project. As the team is not competing as team GB in international competition Sky can employ as many foreign riders as they want it does not detract from the fact it's BC's baby. The management can be foreign as can the sponsor it's still a British team.
Liverpool FC is a "british" football team but it's sponsor is scandanavian, the manager spanish and a large percentage of the players foreign. It's still British!
Now if you don't like the poaching of riders or such fair enough. But I do not recall anyone (except from certain forum members) ever saying it's a national team and you have to support it.It’s the most beautiful sport in the world but it’s governed by ***ts who have turned it into a crock of ****.0 -
PauloBets wrote:I don't have time for all and every subject in the sport of professional cycle racing but this one I do.
Defining yourself as a fanboy, as opposed to a cycling fan, is hardly going to help your cause, around here."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0
