sky team .why do they polarize opinion so much .

andyp

Jez mon wrote:

Tbh, I also think that sometimes some of the more seasoned posters on this forum like to wind the newbie Sky fans up a bit...

Surely not? :shock:

DaveyL

South Bound wrote:

For me it started off positively as an opportunity to breathe life into an enthusiastic scene in the UK without the superstars. There was an opportunity to expose some younger Brits to the tours with the support they need to achieve theire potential.

Unfortunately, it then turned into a spend-money-fest at the risk of making cycling team loyalty as meaningless as it is in football. Buying Wiggo out of his contract just reduced the gentlemanly image of the sport in my eyes. Everyone chasing the big bucks, hey ho.

Additionally, with notable exceptions, it is not a British team, just one sponsored by a company that uses the Union flag on its strip.

One would have thought 15 years of riders injecting themselves with epo and transfusing other peoples' blood (not to mention decades of amptheamine and steroid abuse etc.) would have reduced the gentlemanly image of the sport a bit more?

bobtbuilder

The Prodigy wrote:

micron wrote:

Because some people don't like being told they have to support a team because they're somehow the 'national' team (even though most of their squad aren't from the UK)? Because some people like individual riders, or even the sport itself, more than any team? Or because some people find the triumphalism of certain fans a bit annoying?

Thats fine you don't have to love them, but why do people seem to dislike them so much?
There is no need for some of the sniping about sky on this forum. I don't see other teams getting criticised at every opportunity. Why bother?

Just concentrate on what you like and let Sky fans do the same. Of course there always people who want to have a pop at something new just because they need something to moan about. Few of those idiots on here.

I can't stand SKY due to their poaching of other teams riders. There are ways of doing things, and just wading in waving a wedge of cash and enticing riders to break their existing contracts is just unacceptable.

I hope they have a miserable season.

pedro118118

I don't consider Sky to be a British team really.

Sure, they're closely aligned with BC, but their best riders are foreigners, funded by an international corporation and will, for the most part, race in Europe.

I look at them the same way as I look at many of the other ProTour teams. I want Wiggo to do well and like EBH, Lovqvist, Flecha and Gerrans as riders. I'll follow the performances of British riders, but won't become a 'fan' of Sky, or any other team, in the conventional sense.

Other teams do things differently and make a big play on their national/regional roots - like Euskaltel, Rabobank and QuickStep for example, who draw on support from the Basques, Dutch and Flemish respectively. Can't see Sky doing that, because the market/appreciation of pro cycing isn't mature in the UK.

Seems 'Wiggogate' is the main gripe - tapping up and buying up contracted riders etc

I also agree with the point about fans wanted to keep cycling as a minority/clique - the UK is full of riders/fans, who sneer at newbies - it's sad.

RichN95.

pedro118118 wrote:

I also agree with the point about fans wanted to keep cycling as a minority/clique - the UK is full of riders/fans, who sneer at newbies - it's sad.

I've never understood the sneering at newbies. Surely we were all newbies at some point (unless you came out of the womb and started telling the midwife about Anquetil and Poulidor on Puy de Dome).

I've got a few friends who have become interested in cycling (spefically the Tour) in the last few years, largely due to Armstrong, Cav and Wiggins, and I like being seen as the 'expert'* and answering their questions.

*Expert in a purely relative sense.

FransJacques

There's a line in a great song by Sloan which goes: "it's not the band I hate it's their fans"

I love to wind up newbies who don't have a clue and are all starry-eyed at anything remotely British. Frankly there's a lot on the forum so it's like shooting fish. I do it for sport and it's not malicious - I just want to see a good race where the best person wins. That's the most important thing.

But there's tons of true haters on the forum - remember my long post about British being a spiteful, vengeful lot who begrudge anyone else's success or anyone bigging themselves up. It's terribly un-British to big yourself up in the case that you might fail. Call it tall poppy syndrome or behaving too much like a dreaded American buy Sky seems to have wrankled people.

Don't forget there's a snob factor to have been a cycling fan for a long time, to know the stats, the riders, the races, and to pick winners. If some British winners come along who any newbie can hitch their wagon to, you lose the benefit of your snobby insider knowledge. It unsettles the pseudo cycling snobs - they want some unknown called Wim Van Bottom to win the tour but they want to tell you they knew this years ago due to meticulous crunching of results stats and expert race tape watching. If Brad says he'll win the Tour, and everyone all year shouts "go Brad" and he wins, these people cannot differentialte themselves from the masses. BTW, these folks look like the fat sandal wearing comic book junky in the Simpsons.

dougzz

@FransJacques.

I remember you long post about the British, nice to see such a succinct summing up of 60 million people

This is a quote from David Ginola, he's French in case you didn't know
The French in this area have grown more accustomed to seeing wealth, but it’s still not like living in London. St Tropez is accepted as a place where the rich show off, but when the French look at the beautiful yachts and take pictures of them they are happy because they believe they belong to foreigners. If the yachts were owned by a Frenchman they wouldn’t be taking pictures – they would be throwing tomatoes.

He must have got this attitude from his time in England huh

fastercyclist

I think part of it is a difference of perspective. I have favourite riders, not teams. Whilst the Sky fans take a team-based approach which I personally find perplexing. It just feels more "mindless" to me. Reminds me of football and why I don't watch it.

I will like Sky if they increase cycling a lot this year though.

Jez mon

FransJacques

I remember that post and I thought it was pretty inaccurate generalization then as I do now...

You say you like winding newbies up and then chastise those who are snobbish...Unfortunately anyone who winds up newbies can occasionally come over as snobbish especially over an internet forum, where it's easy to misconstrue what the other poster is getting at.

Overall though, winding up of newbies happens in every sport, I think it's just more noticeable in sports without a major following.

iainf72

I'm not snobbish - I'm deeply unpleasant though

top_bhoy

Moray Gub wrote:

Rangers and Celtic fans are brought up and thrive on bigotry hatred and sectarianism and have been for 100 years to compare any cycling fans of whatever team to them is ........well its just not cricket

I see you have found another subject you know nothing about...congratulations

redddraggon

q00u ɐ sı ɹǝʇɥƃıɟɥɔuǝɹɟ

EKIMIKE

FransJacques wrote:

Don't forget there's a snob factor to have been a cycling fan for a long time, to know the stats, the riders, the races, and to pick winners. If some British winners come along who any newbie can hitch their wagon to, you lose the benefit of your snobby insider knowledge. It unsettles the pseudo cycling snobs - they want some unknown called Wim Van Bottom to win the tour but they want to tell you they knew this years ago due to meticulous crunching of results stats and expert race tape watching. If Brad says he'll win the Tour, and everyone all year shouts "go Brad" and he wins, these people cannot differentialte themselves from the masses. BTW, these folks look like the fat sandal wearing comic book junky in the Simpsons.

Heheh, so true. Everyone is quilty of it at some point. Sometimes it's nicer to follow sport with a degree of innocence and naivety. Some people get too wrapped up in 'who should win' or 'who should be doing better' and forget to appreciate great races. The best thing about these people are that they end up contradicting themselves enetually. It's inevitable in their conquest to always take the opposite stance to the popular opinion. EG the same people who said last year 'I told you Wiggins always had it in him, it's obvious to see he is one of the most naturally talented bike riders around' are now cringing at the thought that Wiggins has joined a team who's aim it is to popularise cycling. Therefore they will now begin their campaign to find the next 'told you so'. Popular candidates are Dan Martin, Nicholas Roche, Roman Sicard e.t.c.

EKIMIKE

redddraggon wrote:

q00u ɐ sı ɹǝʇɥƃıɟɥɔuǝɹɟ

But he has thousands of High Res images which enrich our viewing of the Pro Race forum instead of us having to google 'Fabian Cancellara' or 'Tom Boonen' :evil: . He also kindly details his expert opinion of 'lightweight' performances by seasoned elite pro's who really should be smoking everyone else in their pre Tour warm up races instead of simply getting some solid miles in their legs :evil: .

PauloBets

8 or 9 riders are British, 90% of the management are British, the gaffer is British, the aim is a British TDF winner within 5 years, a Brit is the team leader, the sponsors means more bike racing on the telly as news reports and British riders who are close to making it to pro tour level have a chance where a foreign team would have overlooked them before. This team is a great goal for our upcoming riders. Some of you seem to hate the sky team. Why can't you crazy idiots support such a good venture as team sky?

redddraggon

PauloBets wrote:

8 or 9 riders are British, 90% of the management are British, the gaffer is British, the aim is a British TDF winner within 5 years, a Brit is the team leader, the sponsors means more bike racing on the telly as news reports and British riders who are close to making it to pro tour level have a chance where a foreign team would have overlooked them before. This team is a great goal for our upcoming riders. Some of you seem to hate the sky team. Why can't you crazy idiots support such a good venture as team sky?

Cycling is about riders, not teams, why cannae you see that?

I'd support the British riders and want them to do well whatever team they were on.

disgruntledgoat

Paolo, cycling isn't like football, you don#'t "support" a team, Chiefly because they are wholly commercial enterpirses, wh y would I want to "support" an italian salami maker, or a coffee machine?

As for your Better-Buy-British logic, why should I support something just because I happen to be born on the same island as it's management team? All the stuff you mention about British riders getting chances as a result is great, but is it really true? did Ben Swift, Mark Cavendish, Peter Kennaugh, Dan Martin, David Millar, Dan Lloyd et al need Sky to get where they are?

This is my priciple objection to the way Sky have gone about things, teams have been takin gon young talent and using new and innovative methods to get results for decades it's not solely the preserve of Sky. They simply have a bigger budget and an target market ignorant of the wider picture of the sport.

blazing_saddles

PauloBets wrote:

Why can't you crazy idiots support such a good venture as team sky?

Maybe its something to do with your recruitment campaign spin?
Needs a bit of polish, IMO.

iainf72

PauloBets wrote:

8 or 9 riders are British, 90% of the management are British

General Manager David Brailsford GBR
Performance Director Shane Sutton AUS
Team Psychiatrist Dr. Steve Peters GBR
Head Coach Rod Ellingworth GBR
Operations Manager Carsten Jeppesen DEN
Sportive Manager Scott Sunderland AUS
Director Marcus Ljungqvist SWE
Director Steven de Jongh NED
Director Sean Yates GBR

4 out of 9 isn't 90%.

That's called maths.

PauloBets

redddraggon wrote:

PauloBets wrote:

8 or 9 riders are British, 90% of the management are British, the gaffer is British, the aim is a British TDF winner within 5 years, a Brit is the team leader, the sponsors means more bike racing on the telly as news reports and British riders who are close to making it to pro tour level have a chance where a foreign team would have overlooked them before. This team is a great goal for our upcoming riders. Some of you seem to hate the sky team. Why can't you crazy idiots support such a good venture as team sky?

Cycling is about riders, not teams, why cannae you see that?

I'd support the British riders and want them to do well whatever team they were on.

but this team has a clearer mission to support British riders as they want a British Tour winner. I think we should support that instead of taking a Garmin view.

PauloBets

redddraggon wrote:

PauloBets wrote:

8 or 9 riders are British, 90% of the management are British, the gaffer is British, the aim is a British TDF winner within 5 years, a Brit is the team leader, the sponsors means more bike racing on the telly as news reports and British riders who are close to making it to pro tour level have a chance where a foreign team would have overlooked them before. This team is a great goal for our upcoming riders. Some of you seem to hate the sky team. Why can't you crazy idiots support such a good venture as team sky?

Cycling is about riders, not teams, why cannae you see that?

I'd support the British riders and want them to do well whatever team they were on.

but this team has a clearer mission to support British riders as they want a British Tour winner. I think we should support that instead of taking a Garmin view.

RichN95.

EKIMIKE wrote:

Therefore they will now begin their campaign to find the next 'told you so'. Popular candidates are Dan Martin, Nicholas Roche, Roman Sicard e.t.c.

In that vein, can I go on record now as saying Peter Sagan will win the Tour de France some day. (Although, I hadn't even heard of him three months ago).

disgruntledgoat

iainf72 wrote:

PauloBets wrote:

8 or 9 riders are British, 90% of the management are British

General Manager David Brailsford GBR
Performance Director Shane Sutton AUS
Team Psychiatrist Dr. Steve Peters GBR
Head Coach Rod Ellingworth GBR
Operations Manager Carsten Jeppesen DEN
Sportive Manager Scott Sunderland AUS
Director Marcus Ljungqvist SWE
Director Steven de Jongh NED
Director Sean Yates GBR

4 out of 9 isn't 90%.

That's called maths.

You've done it wrong

Treu, only 4 of the staff listed are British, but the management team is made up of those 9 and their Inner Chimps. So that gives us 4 British Staff and 4 British Inner Chimps, 5 non-British staff... But a little know fact is that of those 5 staff, 3 of them have British Inner Chimps (Steven De Jongh's is called Derek). The remaining 0.2 of a Chimp is accounted for by Shane Suttons nan, who's inner chimp had a Scottish Grandmother.

barrybridges

I think the issue I have with Team Sky is that they have 'dumbed down' the sport somewhat. Someone alluded to it in an earlier post - they've opened it up to the masses (which is great) but now every Joe Bloggs thinks he's Lance Armstrong it's getting a bit weary.

Cycling is about passion and individuality. You don't 'support' Garmin, but you enjoy rivalries between Pantani and Ullrich, or Armstrong and Contador. The sport doesn't have the mob mentality that football has. As Pliny might say, panno amo, amo panno.

All the riders in Team Sky were all very successful in their own right. Sky have turned up and 'bought' success to look good. And in doing so they've dumbed down cycling and widened its appeal without showcasing the extreme challenges these athletes face in their sport. You can't just rock up and be a great cyclist. It's an extreme sport that pushes human beings to greater physical limits than something like football or tennis...but Sky have filtered that out so that people support the team without even really understanding what it takes to succeed. Or, put in other words, people cheer when someone like Bradley Wiggins does well, but they genuinely don't appreciate the sheer ability he's had to develop to get to that position. They just see a man cycling up a mountain without understanding the tactics that have got him there or how the sport works.

And my final rant (yes, it is a rant) is that Sky are riding off the back of British Cycling's existing success, making it look like Sky is responsible for it. It's not. Sky has turned up and sponsored already successful athletes. What's the incremental benefit that Team Sky has added to cycling? Is Bradley Wiggins going to perform better in the TDF because of Sky? These are such slim margins, I just don't see it happening.

PauloBets

iainf72 wrote:

PauloBets wrote:

8 or 9 riders are British, 90% of the management are British

General Manager David Brailsford GBR
Performance Director Shane Sutton AUS
Team Psychiatrist Dr. Steve Peters GBR
Head Coach Rod Ellingworth GBR
Operations Manager Carsten Jeppesen DEN
Sportive Manager Scott Sunderland AUS
Director Marcus Ljungqvist SWE
Director Steven de Jongh NED
Director Sean Yates GBR

4 out of 9 isn't 90%.

That's called maths.

Rubbish math by you. Isn't Shane Sutton British to some extent? Shane Sutton has done many years the UK so 5 out of 9 are British. They hold the hope of British tour success, unlike you. And the English Institute of sport and BC support this team with facilities, video anaylsis like Bradley was talking about the other day on cyclingnews. It's a strongly British themed operation with the aim of the British tour winner. Why can't you support this?

redddraggon

PauloBets wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

PauloBets wrote:

8 or 9 riders are British, 90% of the management are British

General Manager David Brailsford GBR
Performance Director Shane Sutton AUS
Team Psychiatrist Dr. Steve Peters GBR
Head Coach Rod Ellingworth GBR
Operations Manager Carsten Jeppesen DEN
Sportive Manager Scott Sunderland AUS
Director Marcus Ljungqvist SWE
Director Steven de Jongh NED
Director Sean Yates GBR

4 out of 9 isn't 90%.

That's called maths.

Rubbish math by you. Isn't Shane Sutton British to some extent? Shane Sutton has done many years the UK so 5 out of 9 are British. They hold the hope of British tour success, unlike you. And the English Institute of sport and BC support this team with facilities, video anaylsis like Bradley was talking about the other day on cyclingnews. It's a strongly British themed operation with the aim of the British tour winner. Why can't you support this?

Lol.

So 5/9 = 90%

Your maths is still FAIL

iainf72

PauloBets wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

PauloBets wrote:

8 or 9 riders are British, 90% of the management are British

General Manager David Brailsford GBR
Performance Director Shane Sutton AUS
Team Psychiatrist Dr. Steve Peters GBR
Head Coach Rod Ellingworth GBR
Operations Manager Carsten Jeppesen DEN
Sportive Manager Scott Sunderland AUS
Director Marcus Ljungqvist SWE
Director Steven de Jongh NED
Director Sean Yates GBR

4 out of 9 isn't 90%.

That's called maths.

Rubbish math by you. Isn't Shane Sutton British to some extent? Shane Sutton has done many years the UK so 5 out of 9 are British. They hold the hope of British tour success, unlike you. And the English Institute of sport and BC support this team with facilities, video anaylsis like Bradley was talking about the other day on cyclingnews. It's a strongly British themed operation with the aim of the British tour winner. Why can't you support this?

No son, Shane Sutton is Australian.

You said 90% of the management is British. I have proved you are wrong. Can you admit that?

As others have stated, I like some riders, not teams. If I wanted to follow a team (aside from the mighty Saints of course), I'd follow football. Cycling is an individual sport practised in teams.

PauloBets

redddraggon wrote:

PauloBets wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

PauloBets wrote:

8 or 9 riders are British, 90% of the management are British

General Manager David Brailsford GBR
Performance Director Shane Sutton AUS
Team Psychiatrist Dr. Steve Peters GBR
Head Coach Rod Ellingworth GBR
Operations Manager Carsten Jeppesen DEN
Sportive Manager Scott Sunderland AUS
Director Marcus Ljungqvist SWE
Director Steven de Jongh NED
Director Sean Yates GBR

4 out of 9 isn't 90%.

That's called maths.

Rubbish math by you. Isn't Shane Sutton British to some extent? Shane Sutton has done many years the UK so 5 out of 9 are British. They hold the hope of British tour success, unlike you. And the English Institute of sport and BC support this team with facilities, video anaylsis like Bradley was talking about the other day on cyclingnews. It's a strongly British themed operation with the aim of the British tour winner. Why can't you support this?

Lol.

So 5/9 = 90%

Your maths is still FAIL

We don't know how many staff are in the background of Team Sky from BC,English Institute of Sport, designers of skinsuits, those involved on bio-mechanics, wind tunnel testing. And at least I want British riders to win and hope a team that supports them do well..unlike you, stupid!

redddraggon

PauloBets

Troll, SEN, and n00b

disgruntledgoat

PauloBets wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

PauloBets wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

PauloBets wrote:

8 or 9 riders are British, 90% of the management are British

General Manager David Brailsford GBR
Performance Director Shane Sutton AUS
Team Psychiatrist Dr. Steve Peters GBR
Head Coach Rod Ellingworth GBR
Operations Manager Carsten Jeppesen DEN
Sportive Manager Scott Sunderland AUS
Director Marcus Ljungqvist SWE
Director Steven de Jongh NED
Director Sean Yates GBR

4 out of 9 isn't 90%.

That's called maths.

Rubbish math by you. Isn't Shane Sutton British to some extent? Shane Sutton has done many years the UK so 5 out of 9 are British. They hold the hope of British tour success, unlike you. And the English Institute of sport and BC support this team with facilities, video anaylsis like Bradley was talking about the other day on cyclingnews. It's a strongly British themed operation with the aim of the British tour winner. Why can't you support this?

Lol.

So 5/9 = 90%

Your maths is still FAIL

We don't know how many staff are in the background of Team Sky from BC,English Institute of Sport, designers of skinsuits, those involved on bio-mechanics, wind tunnel testing. And at least I want British riders to win and hope a team that supports them do well..unlike you, stupid!

So you admit that you yourself do not know what proportion of the staff are British? So why make the claim? And why is it important if they are British?

Reddragon already said he suported British riders, so why say he doesn't, then why abuse him?

Riddle me this, why should I prefer British riders to those of other nations?