Armstrong vs Contador

dennisn

In a race like this there are bound to be things that even the best of riders and teams can't control. Some strategies may work and many will not. Maybe George H. gave Lance a tip on that break, maybe he didn't. Maybe Lance just said why not go with it.
Maybe Alberto is saying I'll kill them all in the mountains and it might just happen. Maybe someone will get thrown out for doping. Who knows. It's gonna be fun to watch.

pictit

dennisn wrote:

In a race like this there are bound to be things that even the best of riders and teams can't control. Some strategies may work and many will not. Maybe George H. gave Lance a tip on that break, maybe he didn't. Maybe Lance just said why not go with it.
Maybe Alberto is saying I'll kill them all in the mountains and it might just happen. Maybe someone will get thrown out for doping. Who knows. It's gonna be fun to watch.

I agree and today shows how this whole 'who is the REAL leader in Astana' thing adds a certain spice to the mix.Got to admit I was urging the lead group on and hoping things turned out as they did.I also hope Armstrong puts up a really good performance in the mountains a'la Hinault/Lemond to ensure that whoever wins this race has to fight all the way.I don't think it will be Armstrong by the way.But I will not be 'devastated' if it is,and if so,look forward to seeing him defend his title next year :shock:

jackhammer111 - banned

frenchfighter wrote:

Eurostar you are mistaken, try and be sure of yourself before you cast aspersions - I simply copied and pasted the text. To meddle with it is beneath me.

Dave_1. The first thing to do when you are on the defensive is to attack with personal comments. I avoid this but you have demonstrated it like so many others on this forum.

Cancellara is more of a man and a rider than Lance ever was or will be.

given your tag line I think you should see this.

http://www.livestrong.com/lance-armstro ... bca79f7ad/

especially the part where lance says: "I'm here with eddy mercks, the greatest of all time" to which Merckx says: "No no no.. you're the greatest".

donrhummy

WOW. According to that, the split was Contador's FAULT?! (If it's true)

The post-race polemics continued on Monday, with Christophe Le Mevel (Française des Jeux) blaming Contador for the split. "When the split happened I was right on Contador's wheel," he said. "If it's true there were 29 guys in front he must have been 30th and I was 31st. It was him who caused the split. I saw the gap opening up just in front of us and we just couldn't close it. With a lot of leaders stuck, it was complete panic."

frenchfighter

Interesting...maybe it was actually some team tactics then to let Armstrong get some time, although it is possible Contador simply couldn't hold the wheel.

jack, your comment is flimsy as one if you think Armstrong is better than Merckx then I feel sorry for you and two, would you really expect Merckx to reply, oh thanks Armstrong that is nice of you to say so, no, Merckx's comment is perfectly natural.

dennisn

frenchfighter wrote:

Interesting...maybe it was actually some team tactics then to let Armstrong get some time, although it is possible Contador simply couldn't hold the wheel.

jack, your comment is flimsy as one if you think Armstrong is better than Merckx then I feel sorry for you and two, would you really expect Merckx to reply, oh thanks Armstrong that is nice of you to say so, no, Merckx's comment is perfectly natural.

Your comment comparing the two is as childish as "my dad can beat up your dad".
And anyway, I thought Ali was the greatest.

jackhammer111 - banned

frenchfighter wrote:

Interesting...maybe it was actually some team tactics then to let Armstrong get some time, although it is possible Contador simply couldn't hold the wheel.

jack, your comment is flimsy as one if you think Armstrong is better than Merckx then I feel sorry for you and two, would you really expect Merckx to reply, oh thanks Armstrong that is nice of you to say so, no, Merckx's comment is perfectly natural.

I didn't comment. Just pointed you to a video where the two talked.
It is true Mr Merck seems a very gracious and loveable guy.
But there's no way he's in that room with Lance if the respect isn't mutual.
I did not expect to see Hinault there. 8)

I would never say Lance is better than Merckx.
Wouldn't say Merckx was obviously better than Lance either.

And yes, Ali was the greatest!

Meds1962

If this wasn't Lance, the rider would be praised for being the old head that read the moves and made sure he was in the right place at the right time, just like Cancellara.

These conspiracy theories are rubbish, Contador and the rest will have their wits about them from now one but at least Astana contributed toward making a flat stage a hell of a lot less boring than usual.

jerry3571

Yesterday's stage where Contador was caught out having a Siesta reminded me of Lemond and Breukink breaking away in an early stage of the Tour. The two contenders gained a few minutes only to be beaten soundly in the Mountains by a Mr Indurain and Mr Claudio "el Diablo" Chaippucci. I think some older riders get desperate when their form is on the wane.
Armstrong is looking to gain as much time as possible before he gets a good kicking.
The Monaco TT was nowhere near his best and his Giro started off very sluggish and improved to slightly less sluggish.
Contador will be a handful once he gets his chance. Armstrong is a funny old dog; he's supposed to be promoting his Charity not trying to re-live old battles. Try to win a stage and enjoy yourself Lance.
Ciao Jerry

Gazzetta67

Well the TRUE ego that is Armstrong showed his ugly side today.

Dont gimmie this BULL that the astana need to be up in the breaks, Contador is the TRUE team leader - could you see this happening yesterday if it was the other way about. Armstrong is a SELFISH bully and bruyneel is his lapdog. i really hope Contador can kick both there arses. if he didnt already know everybody`s riding for armstrong - i find that a slap in the face as contador is the strongest. yes folks mr armstrong has NEVER changed his way - if i was contador i would have given armstrong a good old Glasgow kiss yesterday.

Pokerface

In 2001 Lance gave us "The Look". In 2009 - it is "The Split".


Imagine what will happen if the race hits the mountains and Lance stays up at the front. Everyone will be going "Oh sh!t. Lance can still climb". THEN the race will get interesting. But until then - it's all just histrionics.

alfablue

I'm afraid Contador blew it. Even if LA was not on the tour Contador would have lost 30+ seconds on a flat stage. Not the performance of a race winner. LA did not make the break happen, neither did he stop Contador responding, Contador did that all by himself. Contador may well recover from his error in the mountains and LA's position may be short lived. We shall see.

mididoctors

Pokerface wrote:

In 2001 Lance gave us "The Look". In 2009 - it is "The Split".


Imagine what will happen if the race hits the mountains and Lance stays up at the front. Everyone will be going "Oh sh!t. Lance can still climb". THEN the race will get interesting. But until then - it's all just histrionics.

iainf72

alfablue wrote:

I'm afraid Contador blew it. Even if LA was not on the tour Contador would have lost 30+ seconds on a flat stage. Not the performance of a race winner. LA did not make the break happen, neither did he stop Contador responding, Contador did that all by himself. Contador may well recover from his error in the mountains and LA's position may be short lived. We shall see.

If LA wasn't there he would've lost 30s to Mick Rogers. I'm sure he'd be bricking it about that

skavanagh.bikeradar

It's all good, interesting stuff and it made a flat stage exciting. But it's a sideshow, Armstrong will not be able to climb with Contador and we already know that Contador can TT better than Armstrong. It's good fun but if Contador keeps his head he';ll see that he is still the best placed GC rider and the initial TT shows he's got good form.

SunWuKong

I wouldn't be surprised if GH gave LA the heads up about the attack/surge by Columbia, why not tell his mate? I did see that LA was on his radio several times before the Astana guys helped out up front. Really dont' think it will be significant with regards to GC as I don't think LA will be able to climb with contador or Andy Schleck this year. Contador and the others should have been paying attention IMO.

CasinoKing

Its all good clean fun ha ha. Will be interesting today on the TTT. Wonder who will be 1st man over line for Team Astana... Cue Cav style sprint between LA and AC ha ha..

Pokerface

CasinoKing wrote:

Its all good clean fun ha ha. Will be interesting today on the TTT. Wonder who will be 1st man over line for Team Astana... Cue Cav style sprint between LA and AC ha ha..

Would only really make a difference if they were tied on time or if this was the prologue.

avoidingmyphd

iainf72 wrote:

If LA wasn't there he would've lost 30s to Mick Rogers. I'm sure he'd be bricking it about that

Not so. If LA wasn't there marshalling Popo and Zubeldia to drive the split, Contador would have lost only 20s to Mick Rogers.

It's the 10 extra secs or so that Armstrong orchestrated by driving the break on once it was established and settling down that are causing the arguments, not the fact that he was in the front group and Contador wasn't. As far as time gaps go, these 10 secs are irrelevant (as will the whole 30secs be by next week, I'm sure!). As far as clues to the hierarchy within Astana, they are the only concrete evidence we have seen...

secretsqirrel

An alternative point of view:-

Bertie played it cool, unlike P-N when he got into a bit of a flap and tried to bridge gaps. He did not even go to the front of the second group (as Cadel did), and stayed back.

This behaviour is more like the Contador that won The Giro and Vuelta last year. And so I come to the conclusion that, Klodi who is never far away from AC, (and who was not in the Paris-Nice team), told him to chill.

This is the Uber-Domestique in action.

But then I would say that, being a Kloden groupy

Tom Butcher

I don't see where the criticism of Lance comes from for making the front half of a split in the bunch. If Cadel Evans, Sastre, maybe Menchov had been in there with them AND we'd still seen Astana riders at the front helping out then there'd be a reason for the conspiracy theorists to argue Bruyneel and Lance were working against Contador - but none of the real GC contenders other than perhaps Lance were there.

symo

It was funny, but LA's comments at the end were telling. "Well I don't know if we now have two team leaders now". Looking forward to Astana falling apart by end of the week. Mountains are going to be hell for LA judging by his recent form.

flattythehurdler

Firstly I am going to swallow a bitter bitter pill and say that the presence of LA has livened up the tour no end. Secondly, I reckon he will climb a lot better than people think. His preparation will be absolutely optimal, and i think he has a good chance. i think he thinks so too, hence driving the split yesterday.
Does anyone think that the team will split along the lines of yesterday wrt domestiques?

knedlicky

frenchfighter wrote:

The Astana team was fined 65 Euros after failing to sign on within the specified time at the start in Marseille this morning.
The team was reportedly delayed by heavy traffic in the city center,
NOW GET THIS
Apparently the delay wasn't traffic related. The delay is reported to have been caused by Armstrong sharing a cup of coffee with actor Ben Stiller

I don't know of the reason for the Astana delay, but Cadel Evans was caught in traffic and enterprisingly got out of the team car, got his bike down, and rode through the traffic jam and thousands of milling specators to get to the start on time.

Philip S

The "take any chances that present themselves" attitude espoused by Armstrong yesterday should give Bertie the excuse he needs to ride off the front on Friday. Until there's a more radical shake-up, both LA and AC appear to be within their rights to ride for themselves.

fpbr

Gazzetta67 wrote:

Well the TRUE ego that is Armstrong showed his ugly side today.

Dont gimmie this BULL that the astana need to be up in the breaks, Contador is the TRUE team leader - could you see this happening yesterday if it was the other way about. Armstrong is a SELFISH bully and bruyneel is his lapdog. i really hope Contador can kick both there arses. if he didnt already know everybody`s riding for armstrong - i find that a slap in the face as contador is the strongest. yes folks mr armstrong has NEVER changed his way - if i was contador i would have given armstrong a good old Glasgow kiss yesterday.

Dude. Have you even ridden a bike before?

Contador screwed up. Armstrong rode smart. And why do you think Contador needs Armstrong by his side? According to all you Lance haters, he is washed up. Contador had Levi and Kloden, he was fine.

I'm amazed at how stubborn you all are. Armstrong won the TDF seven times in a row. That is way beyond winning the TDF one season and the other two grand tours the next season. Winning consistently for seven years means you are the best racer and didn't win on a fluke nor did you win because of pure luck, nor because of lack of competition.

And if you watched the pre-tour interviews with Lance, you would have seen him say that he is here to WIN. Can he? Maybe, maybe not. But he knows performance better than anybody. If he says he has a 1/3 chance to win, you better believe it. He rode crappy in early season races all through his seven years. His performance earlier this year should scare you, if anything. 4 years away and he is nearly hanging with the big boys in his first big races during his comeback, even while having his training hampered for a month.

So far we've seen Contador with the legs, and Armstrong with the mind. The strongest rider has yet to be determined. But something tells me Lance has some surprises in store.

pb21

I’m not sure why so many people think Armstrong is going to lose ‘big chunks’ of time in the mountains. Yeah so he wasn’t climbing with the ‘heads of state’ in the giro for most of the time but that was 8 weeks ago, and that was 8 weeks after he broke his collarbone. In the opening TT Armstrong was clearly uncomfortable riding and I don’t think was a true indicator of his current form.

I think it will be a lot more competitive than some people are making out, especially depending on how many cronies Armstrong can pull together.

Having said that I still reckon Contador is going to win!

GEPC

I tell you what I like about Lance returning is that this is suddenly the most interesting tour in years. Last year we were having to put up with the likes of Cadel Evans whinging this year we have the old champion who doesn't know how to play second fiddle vs the present day real thing who has the talent to troucne Armstrong but does he have the nouse to do it and the journalists., like Paul Kimmage, with axes to grind are getting whipped into a frenzy. Its compelling viewing.

Lets hope we can have a tour when all the intrigue and scandal is about team politics and tactics on the road and not about drugs (and before someone says it, yes I suspect that Armstrong like almost everyone else in the peleton back then doped but I doubt very much if he is now).

The tour should be about racing. Its a team sport but if the team with the greatest collection of talent on it implodes and splits into two then isnt that just another part of bike racing. I watch the tour every year, but no one can tell me this year isn't more interesting than last year.

skavanagh.bikeradar

BBBBBzzzzzzzztttt! Sin bin for mentioning a particular Sherwenism there mister!

Also, you couldn't sit more on the fence with that post.

Pork Sword

All the anti-Armstrong sentiment on here is laughable guys - the Tour is a race and Armstrong is a racer... I'd have done exactly the same in his position - you lot come across as a bit naive. Do you think Eddy Merckx won all his races because he was a 'nice' guy who didn't go out to grind the opposition into the ground? Get real guys...