Ethnicity and the Cycling
Comments
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Stuey01 wrote:Swimming to a standard thayt enables you not to drown, and swimming in top level competition are two very different things. One is likely to be affected by genetic factors, the other is largely not, it is a skill that most anyone can learn.
One is likely to be affected by access to a swimming pool. Isn't it strange that most olympic class swimmers are white middle class. I wonder who has better access to swimming facilities.0 -
Stuey01 wrote:Swimming to a standard thayt enables you not to drown, and swimming in top level competition are two very different things. One is likely to be affected by genetic factors, the other is largely not, it is a skill that most anyone can learn.
True
However one can't become a top level swimmer without first having learnt to swim.
In other words if particular social groups don't, for whatever reason, learn to swim, play cricket, ride a bike, ski, snowboard, play golf, play tennis, sail, row, ride a horse, etc etc they are unlikely to compete at any level in these sports irrespective of their genetic make up.
The danger, referred to by previous posters is that children of whatever ethnic background are denied opportunities because of assumptions about their genetic make up.
The best example I can think of is the under representation of Black players at the Quarterback position in NFL* as compared to other positions. Was that due to genetics?
This was certainly true when I watched NFL several years ago, it may have changed“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
MonkeyMonster wrote:I think most people on here realise my, wallace, elephant and amnezia's points. That you are seemingly delighting in being seen as a troll/aim then good luck with that mcmullej.
I'm out - sorry wanda for not giving you enough time to eat...
I'm many things, but I'm no troll.
I think through faulty logic, bigotry or whatever, you and many others hold some very dubious views about race. And maybe even worse you don't see it.0 -
I'm white British, my old man is Irish, my Ma English. Great great grandma was Italian. I have a lot of friends of Pakistani origin and they see my bike riding as a personal choice very curious. My mates are all in to their bling cars and initially saw my bike riding as something that I was somehow forced to do through a lack of money. I'm not sure if this is typical but it certainly seems that in Manchester Asians don't travel by bike if a car is an alternative.0
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It's far more even than just learning to swim.
Another factor, one that is largely influential, is money. It costs swimming families approximately $1000-$2000 annually per child to participate in the sport. Cost considerations: team membership, USA Swimming registration, competitions, swimsuits, goggles, travel, and other expenses. Swimming is an expensive sport to those who live in inner-city neighborhoods. The financial requirements for training and maintaining a competitive edge during meets and championships can be daunting to parents who can barely keep their household finances on the level. Most of the young Blacks look towards playing basketball or football and go PRO to get them out of poverty and into fame and glory.
This from http://www.diversityworking.com/general ... champs.php0 -
cjw wrote:Stuey01 wrote:Swimming to a standard thayt enables you not to drown, and swimming in top level competition are two very different things. One is likely to be affected by genetic factors, the other is largely not, it is a skill that most anyone can learn.
One is likely to be affected by access to a swimming pool. Isn't it strange that most olympic class swimmers are white middle class. I wonder who has better access to swimming facilities.
A trend is that keeps being trotted out by those that have to look into why blacks or other ethnics don't do this or that etc has always been been studied by someone probaly white as well I dare say . Lets have a scientist look into why a the white yes white brits can't go abroad and have a good time without getting pissed and causing trouble. Let me know what the results are as the answer has been eluding folks and governments for years now
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WheezyMcChubby wrote:Stuey01 wrote:Swimming to a standard thayt enables you not to drown, and swimming in top level competition are two very different things. One is likely to be affected by genetic factors, the other is largely not, it is a skill that most anyone can learn.
True
However one can't become a top level swimmer without first having learnt to swim.
In other words if particular social groups don't, for whatever reason, learn to swim, play cricket, ride a bike, ski, snowboard, play golf, play tennis, sail, row, ride a horse, etc etc they are unlikely to compete at any level in these sports irrespective of their genetic make up.
The danger, referred to by previous posters is that children of whatever ethnic background are denied opportunities because of assumptions about their genetic make up.
The best example I can think of is the under representation of Black players at the Quarterback position in NFL* as compared to other positions. Was that due to genetics?
This was certainly true when I watched NFL several years ago, it may have changed
I don't think you can discount physiological differences between people and how this impacts on their suitability for a particular sport. For example no white person has ever run sub 10 seconds in 100m. In fact apart from one guy every other human being to run sub 10 seconds in 100m was of West African origin.0 -
MonkeyMonster wrote:I think most people on here realise my, wallace, elephant and amnezia's points. That you are seemingly delighting in being seen as a troll/aim then good luck with that mcmullej.
I'm out - sorry wanda for not giving you enough time to eat...
non subject - there is a trend developing on this forum where anybody who persistently debates a point is accused of being a troll ....fess up and grow some balls you troll accusers. You seemingly have the courage to say your bit on an internet forum but when pressed are quick to accuse and even quicker to quit the thread0 -
El Diego wrote:WheezyMcChubby wrote:Stuey01 wrote:Swimming to a standard thayt enables you not to drown, and swimming in top level competition are two very different things. One is likely to be affected by genetic factors, the other is largely not, it is a skill that most anyone can learn.
True
However one can't become a top level swimmer without first having learnt to swim.
In other words if particular social groups don't, for whatever reason, learn to swim, play cricket, ride a bike, ski, snowboard, play golf, play tennis, sail, row, ride a horse, etc etc they are unlikely to compete at any level in these sports irrespective of their genetic make up.
The danger, referred to by previous posters is that children of whatever ethnic background are denied opportunities because of assumptions about their genetic make up.
The best example I can think of is the under representation of Black players at the Quarterback position in NFL* as compared to other positions. Was that due to genetics?
This was certainly true when I watched NFL several years ago, it may have changed
I don't think you can discount physiological differences between people and how this impacts on their suitability for a particular sport. For example no white person has ever run sub 10 seconds in 100m. In fact apart from one guy every other human being to run sub 10 seconds in 100m was of West African origin.
I wouldn't discount genetic physiological reasons totally.
Take boxing as a example
There are fewer white or black boxers at the lower weights than hispanic and asian.
This is obviously driven by physiological reasons
However it would be silly to suggest that there are more white 3 day eventing champions than black because black people aren't able to ride horses.
Or that more blacl people drown because of their genetic make up“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
mcmullej wrote:MonkeyMonster wrote:I think most people on here realise my, wallace, elephant and amnezia's points. That you are seemingly delighting in being seen as a troll/aim then good luck with that mcmullej.
I'm out - sorry wanda for not giving you enough time to eat...
I'm many things, but I'm no troll.
I think through faulty logic, bigotry or whatever, you and many others hold some very dubious views about race. And maybe even worse you don't see it.
I think you have some dubious views about what constitutes bigotry.Not climber, not sprinter, not rouleur0 -
Spokejunkie wrote:cjw wrote:Stuey01 wrote:Swimming to a standard thayt enables you not to drown, and swimming in top level competition are two very different things. One is likely to be affected by genetic factors, the other is largely not, it is a skill that most anyone can learn.
One is likely to be affected by access to a swimming pool. Isn't it strange that most olympic class swimmers are white middle class. I wonder who has better access to swimming facilities.
A trend is that keeps being trotted out by those that have to look into why blacks or other ethnics don't do this or that etc has always been been studied by someone probaly white as well I dare say . Lets have a scientist look into why a the white yes white brits can't go abroad and have a good time without getting pissed and causing trouble. Let me know what the results are as the answer has been eluding folks and governments for years now
Are white brits more likely to go abroad than blacks brits?
If white brits do cause more trouble is it not more to do with social attitudes to alcohol than any ethnic reasons“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
PARIS75 wrote:MonkeyMonster wrote:I think most people on here realise my, wallace, elephant and amnezia's points. That you are seemingly delighting in being seen as a troll/aim then good luck with that mcmullej.
I'm out - sorry wanda for not giving you enough time to eat...
non subject - there is a trend developing on this forum where anybody who persistently debates a point is accused of being a troll ....fess up and grow some balls you troll accusers. You seemingly have the courage to say your bit on an internet forum but when pressed are quick to accuse and even quicker to quit the thread
Evening Doog“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
WheezyMcChubby wrote:PARIS75 wrote:MonkeyMonster wrote:I think most people on here realise my, wallace, elephant and amnezia's points. That you are seemingly delighting in being seen as a troll/aim then good luck with that mcmullej.
I'm out - sorry wanda for not giving you enough time to eat...
non subject - there is a trend developing on this forum where anybody who persistently debates a point is accused of being a troll ....fess up and grow some balls you troll accusers. You seemingly have the courage to say your bit on an internet forum but when pressed are quick to accuse and even quicker to quit the thread
Evening Doog
did you enjoy getting doog banned :?:0 -
PARIS75 wrote:WheezyMcChubby wrote:PARIS75 wrote:MonkeyMonster wrote:I think most people on here realise my, wallace, elephant and amnezia's points. That you are seemingly delighting in being seen as a troll/aim then good luck with that mcmullej.
I'm out - sorry wanda for not giving you enough time to eat...
non subject - there is a trend developing on this forum where anybody who persistently debates a point is accused of being a troll ....fess up and grow some balls you troll accusers. You seemingly have the courage to say your bit on an internet forum but when pressed are quick to accuse and even quicker to quit the thread
Evening Doog
did you enjoy getting doog banned :?:
I didn't get Doog banned
Doog got Doog banned“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
nah..doog got banned because someone complained about the Tesco trolley thread
the word is it may have been you chubbywheezy fella0 -
My brother is a whippet (though age by age physically bigger than me but not as athletic as me when I was in my younger years), though he is only 15yrs old. Will need to see how 'the genes' fill him out but it's entirely possible he'll have a svelte frame for cycling.
Svelte cycling frame isn't common but it is in the family. Me, my shoulders have gotten broader since I started this cycling business. :roll:Cafewanda wrote:apart from DDD, still hoping to see fit black male cyclists
That's how I role!!!! Brap!!!!Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
PARIS75 wrote:nah..doog got banned because someone complained about the Tesco trolley thread
the word is it may have been you chubbywheezy fella
No
Doog got banned because someone complained about Doog's postings in the Tesco Trolley thread
The word is wrong“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
WheezyMcChubby wrote:PARIS75 wrote:nah..doog got banned because someone complained about the Tesco trolley thread
the word is it may have been you chubbywheezy fella
No
Doog got banned because someone complained about Doog's postings in the Tesco Trolley thread
The word is wrong
you are not throwing your hands up to it then chubby :?: you appear to have intimate knowledge of the whole petty affair?
Come clean now and enlighten us and how you delight on banning fellow commuters 0 -
Surely if anyone was banned then they were banned by the mods?
Reporting a post does not equal a ban. Reporting a post that is then considered to be in breach of the rules by the moderators results in a ban.Not climber, not sprinter, not rouleur0 -
Once again you are all talking in absolutes which eliminates the possibility of any factor other than the often singular point you are debating.
Participation and success in sports is a combination genetics, cultural and social influences
I don't believe for a second that solely 'because of your genes you will be unable to participate in a sport at a certain level'.
On it's own it is as much a blinkered view as 'different races have different limits to how intelligent they can become'.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:
On it's own it is as much a blinkered view as 'different races have different limits to how intelligent they can become'.
But this has been widely disproven. There was a very good documentary on race and intelligence on the other night actually.
Whereas the physiological differences that contribute to the utter dominance of the 100m by men from a Western African origin have been proven. (greater proportion of fast twitch muscle fibres, subtle skeletal differences)
There are of course other factors that affect whether an individual will succeed in any given sport but there are certainly genetic factors that affect the likelihood of reaching the very top in a given sport, particularly prevalent in athletics because the events tend to be about absolute physical performance, so the minor differences are magnified. Some of these genetic factors are associated with ethnic groups.Not climber, not sprinter, not rouleur0 -
Stuey01 wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:
On it's own it is as much a blinkered view as 'different races have different limits to how intelligent they can become'.
But this has been widely disproven. There was a very good documentary on race and intelligence on the other night actually.
That's why I cited it.Whereas the physiological differences that contribute to the utter dominance of the 100m by men from a Western African origin have been proven. (greater proportion of fast twitch muscle fibres, subtle skeletal differences)
There are of course other factors
Which is why I said it's going to be a combination of things and not a sole reason.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
PARIS75 wrote:nah..doog got banned because someone complained about the Tesco trolley thread
the word is it may have been you chubbywheezy fella
Word? Are you hearing voices?0 -
Back on topic
White
Male
British / Australian
Straight (for next poll)
Athiest (for one after that)
The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle. ...Stapp’s Ironical Paradox Law
FCN3
http://img87.yfrog.com/img87/336/mycubeb.jpg
http://lonelymiddlesomethingguy.blogspot.com/0 -
WheezyMcChubby wrote:Spokejunkie wrote:cjw wrote:Stuey01 wrote:Swimming to a standard thayt enables you not to drown, and swimming in top level competition are two very different things. One is likely to be affected by genetic factors, the other is largely not, it is a skill that most anyone can learn.
One is likely to be affected by access to a swimming pool. Isn't it strange that most olympic class swimmers are white middle class. I wonder who has better access to swimming facilities.
A trend is that keeps being trotted out by those that have to look into why blacks or other
ethnics don't do this or that etc has always been been studied by someone probaly white as well I dare say . Lets have a scientist look into why a the white yes white brits can't go abroad and have a good time without getting pissed and causing trouble. Let me know what the results are as the answer has been eluding folks and governments for years now
Are white brits more likely to go abroad than blacks brits?
If white brits do cause more trouble is it not more to do with social attitudes to alcohol than any ethnic reasons
So it's social attitudes when asking the questions do whites do this and that ,ah the goal posts seemd to have moved hmmmm. So if it's social it would apply to us brits as a whole then .However look up reports on the holiday resorts where us brits go and there have been a rather large amount of programmes over the last few years on this subject and I'm not sure I have seen a rise in ethnics being battered by foreign police after kicking off in the town with shouts of ingggerlannnnd after drinking. Look up Malia in Crete for one. For closer to home look at local town centres.0 -
On the topic of why certain races dominate in certain sports, we do actually KNOW the answer here!
It's the intersection of genetics and social factors - both matter. (BTW - social factors include opportunity, priority and cultural significance).
There was a very good documentary on BBC in which Colin Jackson tried to understand what had made him so good at sprint hurdling - was it nature or nurture? The conclusion was, of course, both.
I think the most amazing example of racial/national punching above their weight in sport is the the number of Carribean atheletes in the finals of the Olympic sprint events. THese are tiny countries but the achieve huge success in the most open, competitive and high profile events at the Olympics. Just amazing.
How do the do it? Jackson's documentary took him to the Carribean and showed some national (Jamaica?) high school athletics finals. Huge turnout in the stadium. Everyone cared about the sprints, not the other events. Sprinting is a huge deal in the Carribean whereas in the US a talented sprinter might chose the greater rewards of being a wider receiver in the NFL, in the UK or france perhaps football.
Then there is genetics. People of west african descent tend to build more muscle mass and have a high proportion of fast twitch fibres than other races. This is ideal for sprinting. If you combine the very high status of sprinting with the right genetics you get great results.
Colin Jackson is interesting. He's a bit small for a top class sprint hurdler. Perhaps his genetics were not that great? They tested him. His proportion of fast twitch fibres was absolutely off the chart, even in comparison with other olympic sprinters.
On the topic of cycling, I bet some of those fantastic East and North Aftrican distance runners could have been amazing climbers. Don't you think?
(eited for typos)
Cheers,
J0 -
No question about it.jedster wrote:On the topic of cycling, I bet some of those fantastic East and North Aftrican distance runners could have been amazing climbers. Don't you think?
http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/k ... gust-17580
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... cling.html0 -
Spokejunkie wrote:
So it's social attitudes when asking the questions do whites do this and that ,ah the goal posts seemd to have moved hmmmm. So if it's social it would apply to us brits as a whole then .However look up reports on the holiday resorts where us brits go and there have been a rather large amount of programmes over the last few years on this subject and I'm not sure I have seen a rise in ethnics being battered by foreign police after kicking off in the town with shouts of ingggerlannnnd after drinking. Look up Malia in Crete for one. For closer to home look at local town centres.
You are just desperate to be outraged aren't you?
"So if it's social it would apply to us brits as a whole then ."
So you think Britain as a whole consists of just one social group? hmmm, that logic is flawed in the extreme.
Behavioural and physiological differences are not the same. Is that difficult to understand?
It is not social differences that cause my skin to be a lighter shade than DDD's, it is also not social factors that cause DDD to have larger thigh and gluteal muscles than me despite our similar height, build, weight, and a comparable history of cycling and weight training. These are physiological differences influenced by our ethnicity and genetic make up. It is not prejudiced to observe that there are differences between people.
Some white British people go on the rampage when on holiday, however we do not see the same behaviour from white French people, who are ethnically very similar. Simplisticially this would imply that white people are not genetically predispositioned to go on the rampage when on holiday, but social factors influence this behaviour.Not climber, not sprinter, not rouleur0 -
Are white brits more likely to go abroad than blacks brits?
As a black brit, one area I wouldn't take my bike on holiday to, or venture into that region in any
case, is Eastern Europe, even if some of the countries situated there are in the EU. People from
that region generally think that if you're someone of colour you must be African, born on the continent
of Africa. I don't think that people from that part of Europe can comprehend the fact that people of colour
live in, and were born in Britain.
As mentioned before, a nice elderly lady working in the hospital where I was admitted
for an operation, who origianally came from the old Yugoslavia, mentioned in conversation
that she thought I was from "Africa". I don't know what she made of my half diminished
Mancunian accent. :roll: Must have confused the hell out of her.0 -
EDIT: *snip* - no longer relevant.Not climber, not sprinter, not rouleur0
