Ethnicity and the Cycling

DonDaddyD

biondino wrote:

Talking of black men on bikes, was that you in Richmond Park at about 9.30 Saturday, DDD? Wearing a red top of some kind and going clockwise? I say you twice, smiled the second time but we whizzed past each other too quickly for me to be sure.

Nope unfortunately it wasn't me. I couldn't escape my GF on Valentines day....

roger_merriman

DonDaddyD wrote:

DiggingDeeper wrote:

TopSpin wrote:

I cycle to work cause it's quicker, not for cultural reasons!

OK DDD this appears to be the nub of it, what's your take on it (the ethnic cycling non thing)

I don't know... I think that any perception we have based on the number of cyclists we encounter in the week is going to be a skewed perception because we don't encounter a large enough (representative) percentage of cyclists to make an analysis.

I conclude that there are black minority ethnic (BME I hate that term with all my life) cyclists I just haven't come across many.

That said the only answer I can give is admittingly a limited one made by a black man that can only encompass the thoughts and oppinions I've gathered.

I think the black british culture and social practices may directly relate to the low numbers of black cyclists.

I also think cycling in Britain doesn't appeal or market itself to ethnic minorities.

if you walk/ hang around some areas you do see what cyclist there are there, are black or what ever minority has clustered in that area, the other thing is cycling as a sport needs space out of town and once you get out of cities it really does become a sea of white, also worth noting that uk is well into the 90% plus white with other groups numbering at most 2%

Bassjunkieuk

DonDaddyD wrote:

biondino wrote:

Talking of black men on bikes, was that you in Richmond Park at about 9.30 Saturday, DDD? Wearing a red top of some kind and going clockwise? I say you twice, smiled the second time but we whizzed past each other too quickly for me to be sure.

Nope unfortunately it wasn't me. I couldn't escape my GF on Valentines day....

@ DDD She brought out the "heavy duty" toys then

I spotted an asian guy on a Speccy Langster this morning, looked very new (I didn't recognize it straight off so assuming an 09 model) and began to wonder if it was the same asian guy I'd chatted with a while back in about the same area who was moaning about his gears slipping on a Bianchi road bike..........only a few hundred yards from Devers Cycles n all!

redddraggon

In Manchester the majority of white "commuters" seem to be students like me, however there are lots of blacks/asians on bikes cycling dodgy MTBs/hybrids in normal clothes......do they count as "proper commuters"?

The only guys I see doing the "lycra and panniers" sort of commuting are white though...

bigbelly

Just trying to clear something up... when people say "asian", what do they mean? China and India are both in Asia but of course from the ethnic point of view are quite different.

So if someone shouts "asian" I would like to know if my ears should prick up or not... :P

Bassjunkieuk

bigbelly wrote:

Just trying to clear something up... when people say "asian", what do they mean? China and India are both in Asia but of course from the ethnic point of view are quite different.

So if someone shouts "asian" I would like to know if my ears should prick up or not... :P

Apologies, by asian I actually mean indian looking. The area I come from has a rather large proportion of indians so I'm surprised I don't see many more tbh!

cee

ethnicity????crikey that can be quite a difficult question then..

I seem to be a bit of a mongrel....my fathers side are pretty much all scottish.....starting outside inverness and moving south as time went by.

My mothers side of the family has a good mix up.....travelling blood see...so unless i had an army of scientists with special blood line finder-outers, it would be very tough.

My grandmother speaks a bit of romani (not sure which dialect) still and Doric, which hints towards at least a connection with northern india (lots of similarities with punjabi apparently.) and then due to the travelling, a possibility of blood from everywhere between there and here. The Doric is cleary from aberdeenshire (where my grandmother was born).

I like to think that I am a cultural melting pot all in one person!

*edit....the romani hints at a nothern indian connection..not the doric....just re-read and couldn't understand!

DavidTQ

My ancestry is very mixed, and my childrens even more so .

The family tree stretchs right back to soon after the norman invasion on my mums side Apparantly they were lords of radnor, they were norman invaders with a french surname and no doubt picked up some french genes before they made it over here. Along the way that line of the family picked up some scotish blood and more recently some romanian gypsy blood. My great grandma was a genuine gypsy fortune teller, with many family legends about her abilities... I strongly suspect they picked up a lot more norse blood along the way as the blond hair blue eyes still runs strong on that side of the family. Im sure thats not just one set of norse genes 1000 years ago.

My fathers male line side have been devonshire farm labourers for at least four centuries, The surname suggests yet more viking (or at least swedish) influence along the way, although I dont doubt they were well mingled with older native populations, or at least I hope they were well mingled.... my surname is relatively rare but the village our family are traced back to on that side has a disproportinate number of people with our surname... In fact it becomes quite hard to trace exactly whos who and whos married to whom when looking at old parish records etc...

Oh I blieve theres some Polish mingling as well Im pretty sure theres some stavistovsky's in the family tree on my dads side... Oh and some Welsh, somewhere, and some cornish...

Just to confuse things further, on my fathers side my grandads second marriage (first wife died when my dad was just 18 months old) was to a coloured woman who was born of two "white" parents and who had all white brothers and sisters, there was a mixed race history some way back there and my nan was pure chance but not "unexpected" . She had a daughter with my grandad, and so the "blood" family becomes even more mixed

Then of course I married a German woman, well half german half english but brought up in Berlin. Of course it wasnt as straight forward as that, her english side had italian roots as well .

I think its safe to say my children are "well mixed", Despite being able to claim a documented near millenia long history of "Englishness" they had ancestors who fought on both sides of the second world war and probably ancestry spanning half of the globe

This is the mingling I "know" about. I have no doubt that further following of some of the lines would produce even more of a mixed heritage

As far as cyclists go down here in Devon I would say "serious"cyclists are a minority group all of their own. Theres too few of us that Ive seen on a regular basis to make any broad generalisations...

Sewinman

I am white British, welsh heritage.

I hardly ever see black people or other ethnic minorities other than afore mentioned yoofs....and i live and ride through a fairly diverse area. I have seen a few black guys around Streatham who looked pretty serious but had noted to myself after a few months of commuting -'where are all the ethnic minority cyclists.' I saw DDD in RP too. Never seen a black or asian girl on a bike for instance...strange really as its a solo pursuit so anyone can have a go.

il_principe

biondino wrote:

Talking of black men on bikes, was that you in Richmond Park at about 9.30 Saturday, DDD? Wearing a red top of some kind and going clockwise? I say you twice, smiled the second time but we whizzed past each other too quickly for me to be sure.

I saw this fella as well. We must have been RP'ing at the same time Blondie - don't think I saw you though.

Since this thread started I've noticed far more non white cyclists - several black guys and an oriental fella.

Hey Jax

i was born in England but have Scandinavian blood. we traced our family tree back to the Vikings!.. (that could explain a lot!)

i agree with a previous post.. most serious Manchester commuters are white. but in studentsville, there are manydifferent ethnic groups on bicycles. lets hope when they become members of the workforce they continue this trend!

il_principe

DavidTQ wrote:

My ancestry is very mixed, and my childrens even more so .

The family tree stretchs right back to soon after the norman invasion on my mums side Apparently they were lords of radnor, they were norman invaders with a french surname and no doubt picked up some french genes before they made it over here.

Ooh ooh me too, 'cept on my Dad's side, my great, great...... great, great... Grandfather was called Bertram ( :shock: ) and was the constable of Dover Castle when the Norman's invaded:

"BERTRAM ASHBURNHAM, who had been placed in charge of Dover Castle when Harold became King, was in command at Dover when the Conqueror and his hosts marched against it from Hastings. The resistance of the garrison, under the last Saxon Constable, caused the Normans to burn the town, and when the Castle was taken Bertram Ashburnham was beheaded.

http://www.dover.freeuk.com/garrison/constables.htm

Mastineo

White, grey hair, ginger pubes :roll:
Father = american, grandfather = scottish, grandmother = irish
Mother pedigree Geordie

roger_merriman

jashburnham wrote:

DavidTQ wrote:

My ancestry is very mixed, and my childrens even more so .

The family tree stretchs right back to soon after the norman invasion on my mums side Apparently they were lords of radnor, they were norman invaders with a french surname and no doubt picked up some french genes before they made it over here.

Ooh ooh me too, 'cept on my Dad's side, my great, great...... great, great... Grandfather was called Bertram ( :shock: ) and was the constable of Dover Castle when the Norman's invaded:

"BERTRAM ASHBURNHAM, who had been placed in charge of Dover Castle when Harold became King, was in command at Dover when the Conqueror and his hosts marched against it from Hastings. The resistance of the garrison, under the last Saxon Constable, caused the Normans to burn the town, and when the Castle was taken Bertram Ashburnham was beheaded.

http://www.dover.freeuk.com/garrison/constables.htm

another one here, though both sides! which goes back a silly amount, to myth and lore frankly.

DonDaddyD

I hardly ever see black people or other ethnic minorities other than afore mentioned yoofs....and i live and ride through a fairly diverse area. I have seen a few black guys around Streatham who looked pretty serious but had noted to myself after a few months of commuting -'where are all the ethnic minority cyclists.' I saw DDD in RP too. Never seen a black or asian girl on a bike for instance...strange really as its a solo pursuit so anyone can have a go.

All the serious Black/Asian riders around Streatham ride for DeVer cycles (don't race them), are somehow involved with DeVer Cycles or bought their bike from DeVer cycles and probably got 20% discount...

That's not to say they won't offer 20% off to a white person - they will. Seriously go in there pretend you want to by a bike and watch the discount fly!

It's insane they don't even have any direct competition in the immediate vicinity.

rally200

Some of the posts seemed to be asking what is it with black people that stops them getting into serious cycling. I think it could be the other way round. Cycling can appear to be a bit of a clique pursuit from the outside (just look at the way we all enjoy ripping apart a newbie on this forum). You're unlikely to get involved unless introduced by friends and family already taking part. Thus the divisions of wider soceity are perpetuated, indeed accenuated. Hopefully things are improving. Pre '76 my grandparents were refused membership of a tennis club with a written statement to the effect "no dogs, no Jews" :shock:

messier0101

I'm British Indian...

I'm studying in Liverpool and hardly see any ethnic minority here full stop, be it on a bike or not lol.
My home town is in the Shire of Leicester (Charnwood Borough) which is predominantly British White so hardly see any serious roadies which are of any ethnic minority. When I cycle through Leicester itself I might see other cyclists which are of some sort of ethnic minority (be it Indian/Pakistani or Black) however judging them by their gear I wouldn't consider them serious cyclists :?

nwallace

"White Scottish"

The definition of Ethnicity is "what you believe you are".

If an HCP recording ethnicity has a patient sitting infront of them who looks, sounds and acts like they arrived from Jamaica yesterday but days they are "White Irish". White Irish gets written down, not Black - Carribean.

So when it comes to the ethnicity of other cyclists I see, while they mostly look "White - European" to me, for all I know half of them could be penguins.

lost_in_thought wrote:

Why, DDD?

Because it's the new way of measuring.

Collects coat, runs away quickly.

STEFANOS4784

Edit: can't be assed

biondino

I saw one black roadie and two east asians on hybrids this morning.

Sewinman

Saw two black guys and black woman today...they are taking over our cycle lanes!

PhilTheFish

White Scouser

DonDaddyD

STEFANOS4784 wrote:

I usually hate this sort of debate as it's stupid to me, we have had many arguments down the pub regarding this and i feel that in this day and age ethnicity should not even be an issue.

I'm curious, what in this thread makes you think its an issue? I was just curious as to what the ethnicity of the other posters were. Much like being curious if I'm talking to a male or female online. Also I don't think acknowledging an implied lack of cyclists from other ethnicities is overtly stupid. Hell, someone may be inspired to come up with a bright idea to encourage cycling not only for BME (black minority ethnics - stupid term) but also generally encourage cycling within a variety of British communities.

STEFANOS4784 wrote:

*stands by for a tirade of 'in-sensitive' comments'

You can imagine my laughter at the irony of the above in relation to this below:

STEFANOS4784 wrote:

My best mate is 'dual heritage' or whatever you want to call it (i call it a sun tan, which some-times gets me in to trouble)

But, meh! What's between two friends is between two friends.

STEFANOS4784

DonDaddyD wrote:

I'm curious, what in this thread makes you think its an issue?

The fact that you mentioned ethnicity :P

STEFANOS4784

P.s 'debate' was the wrong word in this particular instance. (i'm to stupid to do that multiple quote thing

P.p.s can't be assed to discuss this, knew i shoulda not bothered but ah well live and learn :arrow:

passout

I was in Kenya in December on business and obviously saw a few black cyclists. Apparently outside of the cities lions and elephants are much more likely to kill you if you are on a bike, compared to walking. So NO cyclists at all can be seen in the National Parks. Not strictly relevant but interesting.

don_don

passout wrote:

I was in Kenya in December on business and obviously saw a few black cyclists. Apparently outside of the cities lions and elephants are much more likely to kill you if you are on a bike, compared to walking. So NO cyclists at all can be seen in the National Parks. Not even remotely relevant but interesting.

Fixed that for you

bigbelly

I'm affectionally known as a BBC.

My colleagues at work often look at me as if I've gone totally mad... but it means British Born Chinese. Theres the equivilant for ABC, American etc etc.

itboffin

passout wrote:

I was in Kenya in December on business and obviously saw a few black cyclists. Apparently outside of the cities lions and elephants are much more likely to kill you if you are on a bike, compared to walking. So NO cyclists at all can be seen in the National Parks. Not strictly relevant but interesting.

So what do these lions and elephants have against cyclists compared with say pedestrians?

Do they drive WV or HGV's ...?

Might be a good training plan, it would certainly keep your avg speeds up :P

passout

Lions chase fast moving prey and perhaps people look less like people on bikes (same with Sharks & sufers?). Anyway, I can kind of see the lion thing. Nobody in Kenya could explain the elephants though. Who knows? Lets face it nobody is ever going to do research on it. The African elephant is a very dangerous animal anyway, but the mammal that kills most people in Africa (2nd to man) is the Hippo. Top tip - don't get in the way of a Hippo as it comes to and from the watering hole in the dark/ in the twilight....you are likely to die. No cycling link with the Hippo though. Anyway...diversity in biking....(sorry).