Ethnicity and the Cycling
Comments
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maander wrote:You'd be surprised how many (white) Europeans think that if you're black, you must be
African, or at least born in Africa. Try telling them that you were born in Britain, well, you
may as well be talking "Martian" to them. :roll:
Try that the other way around - I'm white, born in Africa. Telling someone of any colour from here that I'm African -> *gobsmacked*.0 -
Born in Malaysia of Sri Lankan descent.
I cycle everyday come rain or shine (except when I feel a sniffle come on).0 -
BentMikey wrote:maander wrote:You'd be surprised how many (white) Europeans think that if you're black, you must be
African, or at least born in Africa. Try telling them that you were born in Britain, well, you
may as well be talking "Martian" to them. :roll:
Try that the other way around - I'm white, born in Africa. Telling someone of any colour from here that I'm African -> *gobsmacked*.
I forgot to say that they probably didn't think of a black face with an English accent as being English. I can see where
you're coming from if you mean you've got an English accent too. Anyway, those women I mentioned were just trying
to make conversation. No hurt was done. I just assume they've had little or no contact with people of colour.0 -
LOL, yeah, totally. I don't take offence either, but sometimes I think inside a bit of :roll: or just open your worldview a little about them.0
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MonkeyMonster wrote:Mother's Northern Irish, Dad's from St Albans and I was born in Edinburgh...
So a bit of a mix - I'd say I'm british but others say I'm scottish.
Re: swimming, when chatting with an afro caribean friend about it - he knew very very few swimmers (he himself couldn't swim at all) from his ethnic group citing shoulders get too big basically and get in the way plus body fat/density means they sink quicker and its harder to get a good swim in.
Professional power to weight ratio for cycling leans towards an almost marathon style upper half with humongous thighs. Again not something that suits that ethnic group. Short distance sprints I'd reckon they'd be good at - velodromes and the like.
Can I just check I'm understanding you correctly here? Are you saying you think all Afro-Caribean people have bodies which prevent them from succeeding as swimmers and cyclists?
Because if that's what you meant to suggest, then I think you're wrong. Possibly dangerously wrong.0 -
maander wrote:Cafewanda wrote:
still hoping to see fit black male cyclists
Come to Cheltenham and I'll show round some of our rides around here. Well, not now, as
I'm recouperating from recent knee surgery. Iots of climbing if you're interested in that sort
of thing. Why not ride the "Cotswold Corker" Audax ride in February. :shock: You'll know your
fitness levels after that ride.
Is Cheltenham in London? I'd have to get a visa and a health check. My lungs can't handle clean air
Bike ride in February? Are you mad? :shock: :shock: Depths of winter, I'll commute to work (11 miles round trip), run with the club (on foot) and be wrapped up in blankets whilst indoors eating whatever stodge I can find. April onwards I'll be more likely to give it a try.
On a serious note, pencil me in post-recovery. I do want to increase my mileage and, despite fresh air doing me in, it would be great to cycle elsewhere*.
*I'll have to book a b&b and a masseuse post ride 0 -
mcmullej wrote:Can I just check I'm understanding you correctly here? Are you saying you think all Afro-Caribean people have bodies which prevent them from succeeding as swimmers and cyclists?
Because if that's what you meant to suggest, then I think you're wrong. Possibly dangerously wrong.
Yes that right, from a small discussion with a friend about he and others he knew we, nay I came across a new world standard that would apply to all and I'm telling you all this too so you too can understand and bask in the glow of knowledge... ffs
or perhaps I was pointing out a small item of note that biologically has some grounding... [being muscle density and body fat ] but really was just a "this might have some influence on the whole thing"
edit: just to be clear I've taken the meaning of "succeeding at/doing well/having a good swim" as being at the top of the game world wide hence my use of olympic and tour de france. DDD can thrash me all he wants on the racetrack and succeed at that (if he can mind...) Le Cannon [98 Cannondale M400] [FCN: 8]
The Mad Monkey [2013 Hoy 003] [FCN: 4]0 -
MonkeyMonster wrote:mcmullej wrote:Can I just check I'm understanding you correctly here? Are you saying you think all Afro-Caribean people have bodies which prevent them from succeeding as swimmers and cyclists?
Because if that's what y2ou meant to suggest, then I think you're wrong. Possibly dangerously wrong.
Yes that right, from a small discussion with a friend about he and others he knew we, nay I came across a new world standard that would apply to all and I'm telling you all this too so you too can understand and bask in the glow of knowledge... ffs
or perhaps I was pointing out a small item of note that biologically has some grounding... but really was just a "this might have some influence on the whole thing"
on a side note if I am so 'dangerously' wrong - why are majority of olympic swimmers or tour de france riders white/caucasian?
edit: just to be clear I've taken the meaning of "succeeding at/doing well/having a good swim" as being at the top of the game world wide hence my use of olympic and tour de france. DDD can thrash me all he wants on the racetrack and succeed at that (if he can mind...)
You think the "majority of olympic swimmers or tour de france riders are white" because they are white? ie white people are better at these sports because of some inherent racial advantage? Is that really what you think?0 -
Sits comfortably on sofa with a bottle of lucozade, glass of water,a packet of Walkers ready salted crisps and a Twix, waiting for the exchange between MM and Mcmullej 8)
Am on a tea break0 -
mcmullej wrote:You think the "majority of olympic swimmers or tour de france riders are white" because they are white? ie white people are better at these sports because of some inherent racial advantage? Is that really what you think?
Is that much different from saying that a large proportion of people in the Olympic 100 m final tend to be black? :?:0 -
UndercoverElephant wrote:mcmullej wrote:You think the "majority of olympic swimmers or tour de france riders are white" because they are white? ie white people are better at these sports because of some inherent racial advantage? Is that really what you think?
Is that much different from saying that a large proportion of people in the Olympic 100 m final tend to be black? :?:
Why do you think the large proportion of people in the Olympic 100m final tend to be black? Do you think black people are better runners/sprinters?0 -
mcmullej wrote:Why do you think the large proportion of people in the Olympic 100m final tend to be black? Do you think black people are better runners/sprinters?
Yes. Actually I do. In fact, look at this list of the 13 fastest 100m runners of all time:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_metres ... 2.80.94men
Out of these people, not one is white. Do I think this implies that black people make the best sprinters? Yes.0 -
UndercoverElephant wrote:mcmullej wrote:Why do you think the large proportion of people in the Olympic 100m final tend to be black? Do you think black people are better runners/sprinters?
Yes. Actually I do. In fact, look at this list of the 13 fastest 100m runners of all time:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_metres ... 2.80.94men
Out of these people, not one is white. Do I think this implies that black people make the best sprinters? Yes.
No-one is denying that black people are over-represented in the Olympic 100m final or that white people dominate the TdF etc.
My question is - why do you think that is. Do you think white people are better cyclists and black people are better runners?
Really?
Think about it.0 -
UndercoverElephant wrote:mcmullej wrote:Why do you think the large proportion of people in the Olympic 100m final tend to be black? Do you think black people are better runners/sprinters?
Yes. Actually I do. In fact, look at this list of the 13 fastest 100m runners of all time:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_metres ... 2.80.94men
Out of these people, not one is white. Do I think this implies that black people make the best sprinters? Yes.
I am in agreement with Undercover here. Not sure what the answer is, but I do think it must be a gene thing. It is not because these sports are "reserved" for caucasians, like for example, skiing, tennis, golf (With a very few, but bloody good exceptions - Williams sisters, Tiger) However, cycling is maybe more seen as a caucasian sport, hence lack of other ethnics competing at highest level, but swimming is a strange one, as it cannot be cultural. Sprinting is dominated by big guys, and the biggest, strongest tent to be of Afro Carribean origin. I am sure it will change given time though."Encyclopaedia is a fetish for very small bicycles"0 -
Wallace1492 wrote:UndercoverElephant wrote:mcmullej wrote:Why do you think the large proportion of people in the Olympic 100m final tend to be black? Do you think black people are better runners/sprinters?
Yes. Actually I do. In fact, look at this list of the 13 fastest 100m runners of all time:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_metres ... 2.80.94men
Out of these people, not one is white. Do I think this implies that black people make the best sprinters? Yes.
I am in agreement with Undercover here. Not sure what the answer is, but I do think it must be a gene thing. It is not because these sports are "reserved" for caucasians, like for example, skiing, tennis, golf (With a very few, but bloody good exceptions - Williams sisters, Tiger) However, cycling is maybe more seen as a caucasian sport, hence lack of other ethnics competing at highest level, but swimming is a strange one, as it cannot be cultural. Sprinting is dominated by big guys, and the biggest, strongest tent to be of Afro Carribean origin. I am sure it will change given time though.
If success at olympic 100m is "a gene thing" then what else could be a gene thing? What other aspect of history or the world today can you attribute to "gene things"?
White people make the best CEOs because they're white? Do you believe this? If not why not? How is it different from sprinting?0 -
mcmullej wrote:If success at olympic 100m is "a gene thing" then what else could be a gene thing? What other aspect of history or the world today can you attribute to "gene things"?
White people make the best CEOs because they're white? Do you believe this? If not why not? How is it different from sprinting?
I do love how you've extrapolated from your original question here, classic internet arguing. Very good. Next you'll mention eugenics and say Wallace and I are trying to create an Arian master-race. We're not.0 -
mcmullej wrote:MonkeyMonster wrote:mcmullej wrote:Can I just check I'm understanding you correctly here? Are you saying you think all Afro-Caribean people have bodies which prevent them from succeeding as swimmers and cyclists?
Because if that's what y2ou meant to suggest, then I think you're wrong. Possibly dangerously wrong.
Yes that right, from a small discussion with a friend about he and others he knew we, nay I came across a new world standard that would apply to all and I'm telling you all this too so you too can understand and bask in the glow of knowledge... ffs
or perhaps I was pointing out a small item of note that biologically has some grounding... but really was just a "this might have some influence on the whole thing"
on a side note if I am so 'dangerously' wrong - why are majority of olympic swimmers or tour de france riders white/caucasian?
edit: just to be clear I've taken the meaning of "succeeding at/doing well/having a good swim" as being at the top of the game world wide hence my use of olympic and tour de france. DDD can thrash me all he wants on the racetrack and succeed at that (if he can mind...)
You think the "majority of olympic swimmers or tour de france riders are white" because they are white? ie white people are better at these sports because of some inherent racial advantage? Is that really what you think?
Are you trying to say that genetics have absolutely nothing to do with a persons natural ability in a certain sport? is that really what you think?0 -
amnezia wrote:mcmullej wrote:MonkeyMonster wrote:mcmullej wrote:Can I just check I'm understanding you correctly here? Are you saying you think all Afro-Caribean people have bodies which prevent them from succeeding as swimmers and cyclists?
Because if that's what y2ou meant to suggest, then I think you're wrong. Possibly dangerously wrong.
Yes that right, from a small discussion with a friend about he and others he knew we, nay I came across a new world standard that would apply to all and I'm telling you all this too so you too can understand and bask in the glow of knowledge... ffs
or perhaps I was pointing out a small item of note that biologically has some grounding... but really was just a "this might have some influence on the whole thing"
on a side note if I am so 'dangerously' wrong - why are majority of olympic swimmers or tour de france riders white/caucasian?
edit: just to be clear I've taken the meaning of "succeeding at/doing well/having a good swim" as being at the top of the game world wide hence my use of olympic and tour de france. DDD can thrash me all he wants on the racetrack and succeed at that (if he can mind...)
You think the "majority of olympic swimmers or tour de france riders are white" because they are white? ie white people are better at these sports because of some inherent racial advantage? Is that really what you think?
Are you trying to say that genetics have absolutely nothing to do with a persons natural ability in a certain sport? is that really what you think?
No. Not at all. An individual's genetic heritage is probably one of the most important factors in determining likelihood of success at the highest levels of sport.
But I do think it's flawed logic to look at a particular sport or event, observe that one race or another is over-represented and infer that means one race has an advantage over another.
I think it's much more complicated than that. It's got a lot to do with culture and opportunities and your parents and timescales.0 -
It's far MORE likely to be due to wealth distribution. If you are wealthier you have access to a wider range of sports / oportunities. African nations have little funding for sport ,so majority will run. No cycling / velodrome, no tennis, no swimming pools.
This holds true also in developed countires where income is not evenly distributed, but biased by race. In USA, White populatrion have a median income of $51k, whereas Black median income was $32k (2006).
So doesn't have to be genetic at all, but simply opportunity based on wealth. Same reason as why there are many more white CEOs.0 -
I think most people on here realise my, wallace, elephant and amnezia's points. That you are seemingly delighting in being seen as a troll/aim then good luck with that mcmullej.
I'm out - sorry wanda for not giving you enough time to eat...Le Cannon [98 Cannondale M400] [FCN: 8]
The Mad Monkey [2013 Hoy 003] [FCN: 4]0 -
MM, you are forgiven this time :P0
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Its well documented that in ths US that Black Americans as a proportion of the total number are far more likely to be the victims of drowning than their White or Hispanic counterparts.
This would imply that yes perhaps genetics does have something to do with the ability to swim. (I'm not say its definitive proof either!!)
And to deny that there aren't physical trends that different ethic backgrounds follow is daft. Do you really believe that with the eception of skin colour every race has the same distirbution of height weight etc??. Obviously these natural variations across all races will lend themselves to being an advantage in some sports and a weakness in others.
If anyone takes any offense to what I've written then I apologise in advance.You'll not see nothing like the mighty Quin.0 -
Bikequin wrote:Its well documented that in ths US that Black Americans as a proportion of the total number are far more likely to be the victims of drowning than their White or Hispanic counterparts.
This would imply that yes perhaps genetics does have something to do with the ability to swim. (I'm not say its definitive proof either!!)
Not at all. The actual report says;
Nearly 60% of African-American children can't swim, almost twice the figure for white children, according to a first-of-its-kind survey which USA Swimming hopes will strengthen its efforts to lower minority drowning rates and draw more blacks into the sport.
The lead researcher, Professor Richard Irwin, said one key finding was the influence of parents' attitudes and abilities. If a parent couldn't swim, as was far more likely in minority families than white families, or if the parent felt swimming was dangerous, then the child was far less likely to learn how to swim. The minority swimming gap has deep roots in America's racial history. For decades during the 20th century, many pools were segregated, and relatively few were built to serve black communities.
NOTHING to do with genetics.0 -
Further;
John Cruzat, USA Swimming's diversity specialist, said these inequalities were compounded by a widespread misperception — fueled by flawed academic studies — that blacks' swimming ability was compromised by an innate deficit of buoyancy.
"There are people who still give credence to these stereotypes, even in the black and Hispanic community," said Cruzat, who wants to break the cycle that passes negative attitudes about swimming from one black generation to another.
"These long-held beliefs are still so potent," he said. "If you don't teach your children to swim, you're putting your grandchildren at risk."0 -
I'm having this exact argument in the Road Professional Racing section right now.
Read this:
http://run-down.com/guests/je_black_athletes_p1.phpNot climber, not sprinter, not rouleur0 -
Please link or quote any report that concludes that Black persons drown due to their genetype rather thann the fact that they haven't learnt to swim.0
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Swimming to a standard thayt enables you not to drown, and swimming in top level competition are two very different things. One is likely to be affected by genetic factors, the other is largely not, it is a skill that most anyone can learn.Not climber, not sprinter, not rouleur0
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+1Swimming to a standard thayt enables you not to drown, and swimming in top level competition are two very different things. One is likely to be affected by genetic factors, the other is largely not, it is a skill that most anyone can learn.0
