Silly commuting racing

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  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    Asprilla wrote:
    cjcp wrote:
    There's a chap (silver hair, looks to be in his 50s) who rides down Embankment until BB, I think, on a track bike, wearing white shoes, white shorts, and a white sleeveless top.

    I've assumed he's Italian, but, nonetheless, that takes some balls.

    If this weather keeps up you may be able to see for yourself on the way home.

    :shock:
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • mattsaw
    mattsaw Posts: 907
    https://twitter.com/JustJevens/status/1 ... 9277873152

    :shock:

    I always tend to assume (possibly incorrectly) that most HGV incidents are avoidable by giving them a wide berth and waiting behind at junctions.

    Seeing one overtake like that, completely missing the well positioned cyclist is quite sobering.

    Shocking driving
    Bianchi C2C - Ritte Bosberg - Cervelo R3
    Strava
  • njee20
    njee20 Posts: 9,613
    cjcp wrote:
    njee20 wrote:
    elbowloh wrote:
    njee20 wrote:
    Or he was an aquathlete. Not sure if that's better or worse than a triathlete!
    a what now?

    I give you... aquathlon, for the triathlete that really can't ride around corners.

    I did a couple of these about, er, well, um, over ten years ago, and then one last week (with a sea swim) while on holiday. I can't swim well at the best of times; trying to swim after a run was horrific.

    To be fair it's very unusual to have the swim after any other leg, the body does weird things when you plunge it into (comparatively) cold water after vigorous exercise, and expect to continue exercising. A lot of people well... drown! Hence these things usually start with a swim, so you can get your flailing out the way without also battling weird crampy running legs!
  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    Mattsaw wrote:


    :shock:

    I always tend to assume (possibly incorrectly) that most HGV incidents are avoidable by giving them a wide berth and waiting behind at junctions.

    Seeing one overtake like that, completely missing the well positioned cyclist is quite sobering.

    Shocking driving

    Metro (the 'paper) put that on their Twitter feed to highlight the need to give large vehicles more room.

    Needless to say, they got flamed.

    Whoever's in charge of their digital media feed must be too stupid for words.
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • mattsaw
    mattsaw Posts: 907
    That's how I picked-up on it. I was reading that Ned Boulting has quit in protest.

    The have since deleted their Tweet but I found the original video.

    It's absolutely staggering to understand how anyone can view that and think that the cyclist is in any way to blame there.
    Bianchi C2C - Ritte Bosberg - Cervelo R3
    Strava
  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    njee20 wrote:
    cjcp wrote:
    njee20 wrote:
    elbowloh wrote:
    njee20 wrote:
    Or he was an aquathlete. Not sure if that's better or worse than a triathlete!
    a what now?

    I give you... aquathlon, for the triathlete that really can't ride around corners.

    I did a couple of these about, er, well, um, over ten years ago, and then one last week (with a sea swim) while on holiday. I can't swim well at the best of times; trying to swim after a run was horrific.

    To be fair it's very unusual to have the swim after any other leg, the body does weird things when you plunge it into (comparatively) cold water after vigorous exercise, and expect to continue exercising. A lot of people well... drown! Hence these things usually start with a swim, so you can get your flailing out the way without also battling weird crampy running legs!

    The one last week was a parents' event - basically, so the kids could laugh at their parents.

    Run along the beach - swim - run back along the beach - swim - collapse on sand after a mere ten minutes of exertion.

    My kids' main concern was whether I'd embarrass them by having to do breaststroke on the second swim leg.

    I came very close.
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    Mattsaw wrote:
    That's how I picked-up on it. I was reading that Ned Boulting has quit in protest.

    The have since deleted their Tweet but I found the original video.

    It's absolutely staggering to understand how anyone can view that and think that the cyclist is in any way to blame there.

    Quite.
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • dinyull
    dinyull Posts: 2,979
    Mattsaw wrote:


    :shock:

    I always tend to assume (possibly incorrectly) that most HGV incidents are avoidable by giving them a wide berth and waiting behind at junctions.

    Seeing one overtake like that, completely missing the well positioned cyclist is quite sobering.

    Shocking driving

    Just highlights how poor viability is in those things.

    Having only watched that clip once, seems like the cyclist might have undertaken the truck when the traffic was stopped and it's likely the driver didn't at any point see them. Difficult to blame the driver for that.

    I avoid undertaking lorries like the plague, and if I hear one approaching as I'm sat at a set of lights I'll make sure I'm seen.

    They should only be allowed in built up areas at certain times.

    *Actually, after watching that again I don't think you put much blame on the driver. Cyclist is never more than 1m or so in front so the driver would had never known they were there.

    I know I'm opening myself up as victim blaming, but just how I see it.
  • vpnikolov
    vpnikolov Posts: 568
    I completely agree, lorry driver is not to blame. And to be honest the cyclist should have waited. Looking closer, the lorry had the indicator on for quite a while and didn't they now have a sound indicating the vehicle is turning?
  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    He's turning across another lane, and making a turn he can't actually make without performing what must be an illegal manoeuvre. And is that a bike lane he's also crossing? Hard to tell at the camera level.
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • mattsaw
    mattsaw Posts: 907
    It's difficult to see who has passed who from the clip, but IMO she stands very little chance of even realising the the truck is turning at all. It's queued in the RHL so the indicators would be almost impossible to spot from her position with traffic alongside.

    I also couldn't hear any audio warning? I thought that was mandatory now?

    The speed he took the junction also contributed. The onus really should be on the driver to ensure the way is clear before turning safely. I'm really not sure he did that.
    Bianchi C2C - Ritte Bosberg - Cervelo R3
    Strava
  • dekant
    dekant Posts: 114
    edited August 2018
    Mattsaw wrote:
    It's difficult to see who has passed who from the clip, but IMO she stands very little chance of even realising the the truck is turning at all. It's queued in the RHL so the indicators would be almost impossible to spot from her position with traffic alongside.

    I also couldn't hear any audio warning? I thought that was mandatory now?

    The speed he took the junction also contributed. The onus really should be on the driver to ensure the way is clear before turning safely. I'm really not sure he did that.

    There are some rare cases where road layouts, relative positions etc all come together to make it impossible for either party to see a collision coming - there's a good case study in a blog at https://beyondthekerb.org.uk/collision-course/

    However, in this case I'm not convinced it's one of those.
  • vpnikolov
    vpnikolov Posts: 568
    Making a very wild assumption here, but the lane in which the lorry was looked like it was moving slower than the left one which makes it completely possible that the cyclist undertook.

    The driver definitely knew how how tight the corner is by taking that position for the turn. If you look closely at the video, there is a car at the back waiting for the lorry to make the turn. There is a huge gap between the white van in front in the left lane and the car at the back in the left lane waiting. And there is the cyclist in that gap.
    Rule 221
    Large vehicles. These may need extra road space to turn or to deal with a hazard that you are not able to see. If you are following a large vehicle, such as a bus or articulated lorry, be aware that the driver may not be able to see you in the mirrors. Be prepared to stop and wait if it needs room or time to turn.

    The cyclist was in a very dangerous position cycling parallel to the lorry. As a general rule of thumb a cyclist should be riding in a position where he/she can see the driver in the side mirror. A bit more awareness could have prevented that, but I am not expecting all cyclists out there to be completely aware of their surroundings. The manoeuvre from the lorry looked quite abnormal and it would have sounded the alarm in my head. I am scared sh*tless from these anyway so I always stay back.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,302
    Mattsaw wrote:
    The speed he took the junction also contributed. The onus really should be on the driver to ensure the way is clear before turning safely. I'm really not sure he did that.

    I think you can be sure he didn't from the fact there was a cyclist there that he almost killed.
  • mtb-idle
    mtb-idle Posts: 2,179
    Smokey Bacon wrote:
    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/police-release-photo-of-suspect-driver-shane-seymour-after-stolen-audi-caught-swerving-into-path-of-a3906996.html

    Progress in the Audi nutjob case.

    yup, he looks like yer typical gammon.
    FCN = 4
  • vpnikolov
    vpnikolov Posts: 568
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Mattsaw wrote:
    The speed he took the junction also contributed. The onus really should be on the driver to ensure the way is clear before turning safely. I'm really not sure he did that.

    I think you can be sure he didn't from the fact there was a cyclist there that he almost killed.
    A cyclist he couldn't see at all as she was in the blindest of spots. :roll:
  • mtb-idle
    mtb-idle Posts: 2,179
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    I think everyone would have benefited had the videos gone straight to the rozzers, rather than via the internet and the press.

    sorry old chap but I disagree.
    FCN = 4
  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Mattsaw wrote:
    The speed he took the junction also contributed. The onus really should be on the driver to ensure the way is clear before turning safely. I'm really not sure he did that.

    I think you can be sure he didn't from the fact there was a cyclist there that he almost killed.

    Yeah, he sure has a go at swinging it around that corner, and across another lane of traffic.
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • asprilla
    asprilla Posts: 8,440
    cjcp wrote:
    He's turning across another lane, and making a turn he can't actually make without performing what must be an illegal manoeuvre. And is that a bike lane he's also crossing? Hard to tell at the camera level.

    Nah, no bike lane (It's directly outside my office to I just looked out the window to check).

    I believe arrows on the road are indicative only,
    Mud - Genesis Vapour CCX
    Race - Fuji Norcom Straight
    Sun - Cervelo R3
    Winter / Commute - Dolan ADX
  • vpnikolov
    vpnikolov Posts: 568
    cjcp wrote:
    He's turning across another lane, and making a turn he can't actually make without performing what must be an illegal manoeuvre. And is that a bike lane he's also crossing? Hard to tell at the camera level.

    Refer to my previous comment. Not illegal. Clearly stated in the Highway Code.
  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    vpnikolov wrote:
    cjcp wrote:
    He's turning across another lane, and making a turn he can't actually make without performing what must be an illegal manoeuvre. And is that a bike lane he's also crossing? Hard to tell at the camera level.

    Refer to my previous comment. Not illegal.

    What? The reversing on a junction bit?
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • dinyull
    dinyull Posts: 2,979
    cjcp wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Mattsaw wrote:
    The speed he took the junction also contributed. The onus really should be on the driver to ensure the way is clear before turning safely. I'm really not sure he did that.

    I think you can be sure he didn't from the fact there was a cyclist there that he almost killed.

    Yeah, he sure has a go at swinging it around that corner, and across another lane of traffic.

    Working with vehicle tracking (not GPS tracking - turning circles etc) this kind of turn is fairly normal and accepted by councils planning departments. Or we'd have to have lanes 2 or 3 times as wide as they are and mahoosive radii on all roads.

    You've got to help yourself first.

    I don't ride in London, so it's possible I'd get nowhere fast with my choices. But I won't undertake a moving car (much less a lorry) coming up to a junction if there's a chance they'll turn left without indicating.
  • vpnikolov
    vpnikolov Posts: 568
    cjcp wrote:
    vpnikolov wrote:
    cjcp wrote:
    He's turning across another lane, and making a turn he can't actually make without performing what must be an illegal manoeuvre. And is that a bike lane he's also crossing? Hard to tell at the camera level.

    Refer to my previous comment. Not illegal.

    What? The reversing on a junction bit?
    Can't see how that would be considered illegal - No mention of this in the Highway Code.
    Large vehicle performing a manoeuvre. Clear and simple.
  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    Dinyull wrote:
    cjcp wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Mattsaw wrote:
    The speed he took the junction also contributed. The onus really should be on the driver to ensure the way is clear before turning safely. I'm really not sure he did that.

    I think you can be sure he didn't from the fact there was a cyclist there that he almost killed.

    Yeah, he sure has a go at swinging it around that corner, and across another lane of traffic.

    Working with vehicle tracking (not GPS tracking - turning circles etc) this kind of turn is fairly normal and accepted by councils planning departments. Or we'd have to have lanes 2 or 3 times as wide as they are and mahoosive radii on all roads.

    You've got to help yourself first.

    I don't ride in London, so it's possible I'd get nowhere fast with my choices. But I won't undertake a moving car (much less a lorry) coming up to a junction if there's a chance they'll turn left without indicating.

    Agree you have to help yourself, absolutely (there's a bit on Embankment, just before Grosvenor Square, where buses make a left turn and have to move into the RHL), but he's turning across a lane of traffic that can go straight on, and the driver's not to absolved on this basis.

    Also, we don't have the full picture about how she came to be on the left of the vehicle, so she may not have been undertaking.
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    vpnikolov wrote:
    cjcp wrote:
    vpnikolov wrote:
    cjcp wrote:
    He's turning across another lane, and making a turn he can't actually make without performing what must be an illegal manoeuvre. And is that a bike lane he's also crossing? Hard to tell at the camera level.

    Refer to my previous comment. Not illegal.

    What? The reversing on a junction bit?
    Can't see how that would be considered illegal - No mention of this in the Highway Code.
    Large vehicle performing a manoeuvre. Clear and simple.

    Huh? He can't make the turn in one go so he has to reverse back, against the correct direction of travel. I don't think that just because the Highway Code says you can't do something, it's ok to do. You still have to drive with due care and attention, and he's the one making a turn, so he has to be sure he can make the turn safely, which he couldn't.
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • vpnikolov
    vpnikolov Posts: 568
    cjcp wrote:
    Agree you have to help yourself, absolutely (there's a bit on Embankment, just before Grosvenor Square, where buses make a left turn and have to move into the RHL), but he's turning across a lane of traffic that can go straight on, and the driver's not to absolved on this basis.
    I can't really agree with that statement. In order to make that turn he needs to be in the right lane. I don't understand why are you trying to blame the driver for something he is not to blame. :roll:
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    In London, especially around any busy junction, the motor traffic speed isn't high enough to justify staying in the gutter, so it makes sense always to be in the middle.
    _
  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    vpnikolov wrote:
    cjcp wrote:
    Agree you have to help yourself, absolutely (there's a bit on Embankment, just before Grosvenor Square, where buses make a left turn and have to move into the RHL), but he's turning across a lane of traffic that can go straight on, and the driver's not to absolved on this basis.
    I can't really agree with that statement. In order to make that turn he needs to be in the right lane. I don't understand why are you trying to blame the driver for something he is not to blame. :roll:

    He can't make the turn in any event; he had to reverse back.
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • vpnikolov
    vpnikolov Posts: 568
    cjcp wrote:
    vpnikolov wrote:
    cjcp wrote:
    vpnikolov wrote:
    cjcp wrote:
    He's turning across another lane, and making a turn he can't actually make without performing what must be an illegal manoeuvre. And is that a bike lane he's also crossing? Hard to tell at the camera level.

    Refer to my previous comment. Not illegal.

    What? The reversing on a junction bit?
    Can't see how that would be considered illegal - No mention of this in the Highway Code.
    Large vehicle performing a manoeuvre. Clear and simple.

    Huh? He can't make the turn in one go so he has to reverse back, against the correct direction of travel. I don't think that just because the Highway Code says you can't do something, it's ok to do. You still have to drive with due care and attention, and he's the one making a turn, so he has to be sure he can make the turn safely, which he couldn't.
    It seems I will have to repeat myself. Cyclist was in a blind spot. Not really possible to see her where she was, no?

    You are taking a very hard stance on something you obviously need to be more understanding of.
  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    vpnikolov wrote:
    cjcp wrote:
    Agree you have to help yourself, absolutely (there's a bit on Embankment, just before Grosvenor Square, where buses make a left turn and have to move into the RHL), but he's turning across a lane of traffic that can go straight on, and the driver's not to absolved on this basis.
    I can't really agree with that statement. In order to make that turn he needs to be in the right lane. I don't understand why are you trying to blame the driver for something he is not to blame. :roll:

    You're driving a car and there are two lanes. You're in the right hand lane, and the left lane is the bus lane, so you can't drive in it. There's a left turn up ahead, and the bus lane ends before the turning, so you don't have to go in the bus lane to make the turn.

    But that bus lane can also be used by taxis and bikes.

    To make the turn, you have to cross a lane in which the users of that lane have priority over yo because you're crossing their path; it's your job to make sure you can make the turn safely.
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."

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