Red means STOP

alfablue

gtvlusso wrote:

Sadly, it is now an Audi RS4; Alfablue....Although I do miss my Alfa's - hence owning the Ducati! Anyway, I do more mileage on a bicycle than my car and motorbike put together - hence I can afford to own "gas guzzlers". !

Much the same as me, really. I feel a little bit bad about the 17mpg in the Alfa, but I cycle more. I have vague ideas of getting a Ducati (I like the Monsters, or maybe a Moto Guzzi...) and giving up on the car at some stage (and maybe joining the City Car Club), but actually selling the Alfa would be very tough, especially as that V6 engine is never to be repeated. Also, my family are convinced I would get myself mangled as a born again biker :?

Parkey

Here's someone who also likes to run red lights.

ransos

gtvlusso wrote:

Ultimately: Live with it - people will always break laws and rules and it is not your place (unless you are a Rozza) to get involved or tell someone how you would like it to be....If you had a go at me, I would probably ignore you and cycle off.

So if you saw a burglar breaking into your neighbour's house, would you do nothing? It's not your place to get involved, after all.

Smeggers

ransos wrote:

gtvlusso wrote:

Ultimately: Live with it - people will always break laws and rules and it is not your place (unless you are a Rozza) to get involved or tell someone how you would like it to be....If you had a go at me, I would probably ignore you and cycle off.

So if you saw a burglar breaking into your neighbour's house, would you do nothing? It's not your place to get involved, after all.

Flippin eck - you get about don't you!

APIII

Parkey wrote:

Here's someone who also likes to run red lights.

Funniest thing about that is the last line "Mr Cameron was caught on camera last year going through a red light without his cycle helmet on".

What, no helmet? why, he should be arrested :roll:

Jon G

gtvlusso wrote:

people will always break laws and rules and it is not your place (unless you are a Rozza) to get involved or tell someone how you would like it to be

The Police were set up as public servants, to be a backup for the general right and duty of citizens to uphold the law, not to be a replacement for it and therefore our masters. We citizens appoint MP's to make laws on our behalf and it is very much our business if people break them.

spen666

gtvlusso wrote:

....

Ultimately: Live with it - people will always break laws and rules and it is not your place (unless you are a Rozza) to get involved or tell someone how you would like it to be...

You couldn't be more wrong

Papa Smurf

I've gone and still do go through red lights, but only if I think I'm not at that much risk or there is nothing waiting to come out or on it's way out already,

Normally, if safe, I would either ride up a drop kerb to avoid losing momentum or just jump up it, either way I hate stopping.

alfablue

Papa Smurf wrote:

I've gone and still do go through red lights, but only if I think I'm not at that much risk or there is nothing waiting to come out or on it's way out already,

Normally, if safe, I would either ride up a drop kerb to avoid losing momentum or just jump up it, either way I hate stopping.

So as long as you don't need to stop or slow down, to hell with the problem you are causing for the image (and treatmnent of) the cycling fraternity. Your attitudes are those of a car driver who resents every hold up and needs to get from a to b at all costs, it is a mad way to carry on, and amongst car drivers at least, this "I'm alright, jack" attitude accounts for some of the worst, most inconsiderate and dangerous driving. For safer road use all round we all need to cool it, and cyclists being the most vulnerable, have a vested interest in leading by example - your example is attrocious!

gtvlusso

I think a few people have mis-understood me - or I have not defined myself entirely well.

Basically, I really don't care about the fact that I run red lights! What I don't like is people interfering or telling me how I should do something....quite simply, you do it your way, and I will do it mine. If I decide to run a red light and you decide to stop - then thats fine. If you run a red light and I decide to stop - then fine! It can even be done accidentally - we are all out there together, so an open mentality or attentative behaviour and tolerance would be appreciated more I think.

Personally, I really don't give a damn what anyone else thinks - I just do what I feel is the best at the time. Hey, I am sure we have all driven above the speed limit or parked illegally in the car - maybe even done some silly things as kids that were illegal and we did not realise it - Skateboarding in a mall for example or not picking up dog poo when out walking on the common with the dog!!

I do around 100 to 150 miles a week cycling and I am still here....Hey, I ride a powerful motorbike and I am still here!!!

Just don't appreciate some nosey toerag at the lights telling me what I should do or how I should do it.

The burglary comment above is very silly and throwaway: Just because I run red light and am not a Christian, does not mean I have no moral values.....pointless comment.

gtvlusso

I must admit though - it does not do the reputation of cyclists any good, but what does?! Pretty much everyone hates you - they hate you even more if you are on a motorbike! But hey, life's not a rose garden!!

There will always be a percentage of any fraternity that will "spoil" it for all - some of you may abide to all road law, then cycle on a pavement or are abusive to other road users, some of you may use your mobile whilst cycling or cut lanes on roud-a-bouts - hopefully though, they will build more and more cycle paths in a clever way so that we avoid traffic and traffic lights!

I just hope that you all find your own paths and ways of doing things that you feel safe with and that you are happy about - And hopefully none of you get hurt.

So, I will apologise if it annoys some of you - but I am not gonna stop.

Parkey

In my experience I find that most people will reciprocate in a way similar to that in which they are approached or addressed, even when behind the wheel. If you drive or cycle around in a pit of your own arrogance guess how people will respond.

iainment

Parkey wrote:

In my experience I find that most people will reciprocate in a way similar to that in which they are approached or addressed, even when behind the wheel. If you drive or cycle around in a pit of your own arrogance guess how people will respond.

Precisely, so if you give me a telling about RLJ on the road expect a mouthful back. I am old enough to make up my own mind on this issue and realise the personal consequences to me if caught.

I really cannot believe that the aggressive motorists opinion of anything in their way will be changed by my stopping at every red light on my journey.

Parkey

What I meant was arrogance to the extent of believing oneself to be better and above the laws which everyone else, or at least the significant majority, at that particular junction are adhering to.

I'll wait at lights. Not because I like stopping, not because I want a pat on the back from all the motorists, but because it's what everybody is obliged to do.

gtvlusso

I don't remember saying or implying that I was above the law or better than anyone else!? - it's simply my choice and I will assess each situation as it comes up! Sometimes I stop, sometimes I don't....Ah well.

iainment

gtvlusso wrote:

I don't remember saying or implying that I was above the law or better than anyone else!? - it's simply my choice and I will assess each situation as it comes up! Sometimes I stop, sometimes I don't....Ah well.

Were we twins separated at birth.......

:twisted:

spen666

gtvlusso wrote:

I think a few people have mis-understood me - or I have not defined myself entirely well.

Basically, I really don't care about the fact that I run red lights! What I don't like is people interfering or telling me how I should do something....quite simply, you do it your way, and I will do it mine. ..


.

If your actions have a negative effect on the way others perceive me and treat me then it is not simply you doing it your way. You are contributing to increasing the risk and danger i face


You are also a criminal

iainment

spen666 wrote:

gtvlusso wrote:

I think a few people have mis-understood me - or I have not defined myself entirely well.

Basically, I really don't care about the fact that I run red lights! What I don't like is people interfering or telling me how I should do something....quite simply, you do it your way, and I will do it mine. ..


.

If your actions have a negative effect on the way others perceive me and treat me then it is not simply you doing it your way. You are contributing to increasing the risk and danger i face


You are also a criminal

Is RLJ a criminal or civil offence?

:twisted:

ransos

gtvlusso wrote:

I think a few people have mis-understood me - or I have not defined myself entirely well.

Basically, I really don't care about the fact that I run red lights! What I don't like is people interfering or telling me how I should do something....quite simply, you do it your way, and I will do it mine. If I decide to run a red light and you decide to stop - then thats fine. If you run a red light and I decide to stop - then fine! It can even be done accidentally - we are all out there together, so an open mentality or attentative behaviour and tolerance would be appreciated more I think.

Personally, I really don't give a damn what anyone else thinks - I just do what I feel is the best at the time. Hey, I am sure we have all driven above the speed limit or parked illegally in the car - maybe even done some silly things as kids that were illegal and we did not realise it - Skateboarding in a mall for example or not picking up dog poo when out walking on the common with the dog!!

I do around 100 to 150 miles a week cycling and I am still here....Hey, I ride a powerful motorbike and I am still here!!!

Just don't appreciate some nosey toerag at the lights telling me what I should do or how I should do it.

The burglary comment above is very silly and throwaway: Just because I run red light and am not a Christian, does not mean I have no moral values.....pointless comment.

You break the law and entrench prejudice towards cyclists. Thanks a lot. It says a lot about your attitude that you attempt to justify your selfish actions because others may break other laws. A very odd logic.

If you don't want people to interfere in your life, then there is a very simple solution...

spen666

iainment wrote:

spen666 wrote:

gtvlusso wrote:

I think a few people have mis-understood me - or I have not defined myself entirely well.

Basically, I really don't care about the fact that I run red lights! What I don't like is people interfering or telling me how I should do something....quite simply, you do it your way, and I will do it mine. ..


.

If your actions have a negative effect on the way others perceive me and treat me then it is not simply you doing it your way. You are contributing to increasing the risk and danger i face


You are also a criminal

Is RLJ a criminal or civil offence?

:twisted:

The clue is in my post

You are a criminal if you commit a criminal offence

iainment

ransos wrote:

gtvlusso wrote:

I think a few people have mis-understood me - or I have not defined myself entirely well.

Basically, I really don't care about the fact that I run red lights! What I don't like is people interfering or telling me how I should do something....quite simply, you do it your way, and I will do it mine. If I decide to run a red light and you decide to stop - then thats fine. If you run a red light and I decide to stop - then fine! It can even be done accidentally - we are all out there together, so an open mentality or attentative behaviour and tolerance would be appreciated more I think.

Personally, I really don't give a damn what anyone else thinks - I just do what I feel is the best at the time. Hey, I am sure we have all driven above the speed limit or parked illegally in the car - maybe even done some silly things as kids that were illegal and we did not realise it - Skateboarding in a mall for example or not picking up dog poo when out walking on the common with the dog!!

I do around 100 to 150 miles a week cycling and I am still here....Hey, I ride a powerful motorbike and I am still here!!!

Just don't appreciate some nosey toerag at the lights telling me what I should do or how I should do it.

The burglary comment above is very silly and throwaway: Just because I run red light and am not a Christian, does not mean I have no moral values.....pointless comment.

You break the law and entrench prejudice towards cyclists. Thanks a lot. It says a lot about your attitude that you attempt to justify your selfish actions because others may break other laws. A very odd logic.

If you don't want people to interfere in your life, then there is a very simple solution...

So how many cars/vans/lorries/motorbikes, jay walking pedestrians do you harangue on each trip? Or is it just cyclists you bother.
Please show me how jumping, or obeying a red light makes a ha'pence of difference to how cyclists are seen and thought about. Even if all cyclists obeyed all road rules/laws there would still be antipathy from motorists because they need someone they think is lower down the pecking order to vent against.
I have been running redlights for more than 40 years, never had an accident crossing lights and feel there are better things for cyclists to do than policing themselves on behalf of motorists.

:twisted:

Parkey

gtvlusso wrote:

I don't remember saying or implying that I was above the law or better than anyone else!?

My point was that in the eyes of those who are obeying the law, especially when doing so is to their own inconvenience, that's exactly what you are doing.

iainment

spen666 wrote:

iainment wrote:

spen666 wrote:

gtvlusso wrote:

I think a few people have mis-understood me - or I have not defined myself entirely well.

Basically, I really don't care about the fact that I run red lights! What I don't like is people interfering or telling me how I should do something....quite simply, you do it your way, and I will do it mine. ..


.

If your actions have a negative effect on the way others perceive me and treat me then it is not simply you doing it your way. You are contributing to increasing the risk and danger i face


You are also a criminal

Is RLJ a criminal or civil offence?

:twisted:

The clue is in my post

You are a criminal if you commit a criminal offence

So it is a criminal offence then, cool.

:twisted:

ransos

iainment wrote:

ransos wrote:

gtvlusso wrote:

I think a few people have mis-understood me - or I have not defined myself entirely well.

Basically, I really don't care about the fact that I run red lights! What I don't like is people interfering or telling me how I should do something....quite simply, you do it your way, and I will do it mine. If I decide to run a red light and you decide to stop - then thats fine. If you run a red light and I decide to stop - then fine! It can even be done accidentally - we are all out there together, so an open mentality or attentative behaviour and tolerance would be appreciated more I think.

Personally, I really don't give a damn what anyone else thinks - I just do what I feel is the best at the time. Hey, I am sure we have all driven above the speed limit or parked illegally in the car - maybe even done some silly things as kids that were illegal and we did not realise it - Skateboarding in a mall for example or not picking up dog poo when out walking on the common with the dog!!

I do around 100 to 150 miles a week cycling and I am still here....Hey, I ride a powerful motorbike and I am still here!!!

Just don't appreciate some nosey toerag at the lights telling me what I should do or how I should do it.

The burglary comment above is very silly and throwaway: Just because I run red light and am not a Christian, does not mean I have no moral values.....pointless comment.

You break the law and entrench prejudice towards cyclists. Thanks a lot. It says a lot about your attitude that you attempt to justify your selfish actions because others may break other laws. A very odd logic.

If you don't want people to interfere in your life, then there is a very simple solution...

So how many cars/vans/lorries/motorbikes, jay walking pedestrians do you harangue on each trip? Or is it just cyclists you bother.
Please show me how jumping, or obeying a red light makes a ha'pence of difference to how cyclists are seen and thought about. Even if all cyclists obeyed all road rules/laws there would still be antipathy from motorists because they need someone they think is lower down the pecking order to vent against.
I have been running redlights for more than 40 years, never had an accident crossing lights and feel there are better things for cyclists to do than policing themselves on behalf of motorists.

:twisted:

Firstly, there is no such thing as "jaywalking" in the UK. Secondly, I make a point of telling car drivers when they have acted dangerously. I have fitted an Airzound precisely for this purpose...

The number one complaint about cyclists is running red lights. Whilst no doubt there would still be some antipathy even if we were all model citizens, you are only making a bad situation worse. How on earth can we expect car drivers to behave when you give them such an easy reason to not?

If you think that because you've never had an accident running red lights is justification, then you have a very weak grasp on statistics and road safety.

gtvlusso

Hi all,

I think it is a civil offence rather than criminal - certainly can affect your driving licence if you do jump a light and are caught, but to be fair, most police officers are a bit busy to be chasing down cyclists and it would probably be more dangerous for them to start tearing down the road after you with a blue light flashing in ruch hour!

It's personal choice, yet it does affect us all. I don't agree with the motorbiker who got killed in North Wales recently - he had no MOT, no insurance, no tax and no motorbike licence! He was speeding and managed to de-capitate himself.....Makes other motorcyclists look bad!! But still, thats the way it goes. I would not deny anyone their freedom to choose their fate.

I am sure that all of you on this forum have broken a law in your time......from speeding in the car to cutting the branches off an overhanging tree in a conservation zone. I don't go through every light I see aggresively, I just slow up wait and watch, then pick my moment - please don't see it as an afront and 2 fingers in the face to everyone else. It is just a choice.

ransos

gtvlusso wrote:

I am sure that all of you on this forum have broken a law in your time......from speeding in the car to cutting the branches off an overhanging tree in a conservation zone. I don't go through every light I see aggresively, I just slow up wait and watch, then pick my moment - please don't see it as an afront and 2 fingers in the face to everyone else. It is just a choice.

Firstly, two wrongs don't make a right.

Secondly, your choice affects us all.

gtvlusso

Whoa Ransos, you're quite angry! I think it is a little arrogant to say that I (and some of the other out there) are simply wrong - we made an unlawful choice agreed, but as above, people break the law everyday without realising it!

My personal "hate" although I don't get upset about it is cyclists who cannot look over there shoulder when manouvering on roads - you know, changing lane or cutting in. I have had more near misses from people doing that than anything else - Mirror, signal manouvre in the highway code (alright, no mirrors on a bike, but you can move your head!).

In essence, it is a very small point on urban cycling - there is still people that will only ride on the pavement, without lights, don't look when making road manouvres or cut lanes on round-a-bouts or cycle with complete dis-regard for any other road user or pedestrian - pure aggresssion and are abusive. There will always be people who do these things and get used to it - because they feel safer and more relaxed and in more control. These don't help us as a group either.....Everyone has a different view of how to cope - I found my way.

gtvlusso

Whoa Ransos, you're quite angry! I think it is a little arrogant to say that I (and some of the other out there) are simply wrong - we made an unlawful choice agreed, but as above, people break the law everyday without realising it!

My personal "hate" although I don't get upset about it is cyclists who cannot look over there shoulder when manouvering on roads - you know, changing lane or cutting in. I have had more near misses from people doing that than anything else - Mirror, signal manouvre in the highway code (alright, no mirrors on a bike, but you can move your head!).

In essence, it is a very small point on urban cycling - there is still people that will only ride on the pavement, without lights, don't look when making road manouvres or cut lanes on round-a-bouts or cycle with complete dis-regard for any other road user or pedestrian - pure aggresssion and are abusive. There will always be people who do these things and get used to it - because they feel safer and more relaxed and in more control. These don't help us as a group either.....Everyone has a different view of how to cope - I found my way.

gtvlusso

Sorry - posted twice - doh!

spen666

gtvlusso wrote:

Hi all,

I think it is a civil offence rather than criminal - certainly can affect your driving licence if you do jump a light and are caught, ....

Do you have to try to spout so much sh*te

In one sentence you say- its not a criminal offence to jump a red light - WRONG
You say "certainly can affect your driving licence if you do jump a light and are caught" - WRONG again. Your driving licence is unaffected by anything you do on a pushbike. It is a DRIVING licence - not a riding licence.

Finally if it could affect your driving licence then it MUST be a criminal offence- as no civil matter can affect the driving licence - so you are now contradicting yourself


Stop digging