Red means STOP

Parkey

Yes. I reckon it's far far safer to do that. I reckon a car can't hurt you if you can't see it, hence closing your eyes will help.

I agree you should also scream "YEEEEEHAWWWW!!!!!!!" as you go hurtling through the junction at great speed, but that's just for effect.

iainment

Parkey wrote:

Yes. I reckon it's far far safer to do that. I reckon a car can't hurt you if you can't see it, hence closing your eyes will help.

I agree you should also scream "YEEEEEHAWWWW!!!!!!!" as you go hurtling through the junction at great speed, but that's just for effect.

Crikey, sarcasm rears it's ugly head. (You don't think he might be joking though)

:twisted:

Jon G

johnnyhotdog wrote:

i go through red lights as a method of self preservation.

I seem to have survived 34 years of cycling (ranging from rural touring to inner London commuting) without doing so.

Jon

dnsmiff

I travel through 4 sets of lights on the journey to work, two set's I wait patiently at.

However the other 2 I avoid, the same reason for both. They are 3 lanes onto a roundabout (Controlled by traffic lights). I want to go straight ahead, If I choose the inside lane, then I'll get cut up from cars turning left, If I choose the middle lane, I still get cut up by cars trying the beat the other cars turning left, and if I go in the outside lane I can't get back in lane to go straight ahead. At these points I ride on the payment (shock!) and avoid the lights all together, there are no pedestrians that use these pavements. (Well I haven’t seen any for the last 2 years!).

I don’t think this is like a motorist speeding, I’m not doing it to save time, it is safer (at least it feels safer to me!).

However I do agree that if you are waiting at a set of say pedestrian lights and no one is coming – well tough you’ll have to wait, also trying to pre-empt the lights is very dangerous and you’re just lucky.

ransos

I'm afraid that a lot of the excuses given here are just poor cyclecraft. If you position yourself correctly on the road at junctions, cars will not be able to cut you up.

madmix

I totally diasgree with RLJing. It annoys me having to stop but most of these idiots (especially around East London) can't drive anyway. My reactions get a better workout than my legs most days! Let's face it you're going to get everywhere quicker than all the drivers anyway.

....failing that, do what I do and enjoy my game of chase the RLJer. It's great.!!!!
and I usually win.

dsmiff

ransos wrote:

I'm afraid that a lot of the excuses given here are just poor cyclecraft. If you position yourself correctly on the road at junctions, cars will not be able to cut you up.

You don't ride this piece of road do you and maybe I have not described it well enough for you to visualise the danger – the lights are at the end of a piece of dual carriageway, many cars traveling at 70mph+? (if anyone knows it where the a483 joining the a55 in Chester)

So when like this morning I'm riding in the pouring rain, I am not going to put the trust in the fact that other drivers have seen me - despite being lit-up like a Christmas tree - The point I wanted to make is I avoid some traffic lights ( and junctions for that matter) because to quote you I don't have your level of cycecraft or confidence.

In fact the danger at the junction is greater when you go through the lights on green.

I still don’t agree with people jumping lights at pedestrian crossing etc.

redddraggon

dsmiff wrote:

(if anyone knows it where the a483 joining the a55 in Chester)

I wouldn't go anywhere near there on my bike - it's just too dangerous (Although I do alot of my training around Kinnerton). Get aggro even when I'm in the Car. People don't know what lane they are supposed to be and cut people all the while.

I'm assuming your coming from the Wrexham direction? It's not really a place I'd jump the lights.

redvee

I'm at danger when I stop at red lights from the cyclists that ignore the lights. I try and catch them up and pass them, usually within 100yds which proves they've gained nothing.

There was a discussion on this It hink on the Jeremy Vine radio proggy dinnertime Radio 2. Couldn't listen properly whilst eating my full english breakfast though, was expecting to see something about it here.

belgiangoth

bigmug wrote:

What is about some motorists that they run red lights - out today and saw one, saw one a few weeks ago also ...

... and don't get me started on the motorists who regularly take a right on the "no right turn" or go throught the "bus only" lights ...

Parkey

ransos wrote:

I'm afraid that a lot of the excuses given here are just poor cyclecraft. If you position yourself correctly on the road at junctions, cars will not be able to cut you up.

Absolutely. Having read that book myself I couldn't agree more.

Dunedin397

No matter what you're using to travel on the road, bicycle, scooter, motor bike, car, lorry, bus, etc, you MUST obey the rules of the road. It's lunacy to think that you can break the rules of the road, ie the law, that's it's alright for you because you're on a bicycle.

I've been cycling to work for some time now and a number of cyclists go through red lights and not all of them have made it safely throught, but it's their fault they got injured, not other road users'.

If another vehicle takes you down when you go through a red light, the driver of that vehicle has every right to sue YOU for any damage, to the car or their mental state, as you broke the law.

What I'd say to the people who believe they go through safely, is that do you think your family will agree with you when they have to visit you in hospital, or worse, go to your funeral, when your "judgement" is wrong one day? Think of them if not yourself, all for the sake of getting in front of the traffic.

Anyone who breaks the rules of the road is a fool.

Dunedin

pst88

Well I went through a red light today. I don't normally but this time I did and I honestly believe it was in my best interests. On my commute there's this cycle lane that runs up the middle of 2 lanes of traffic travelling in the same direction, so I rode up that passing all the cars waiting at the lights. When I got to the front there were 2 HGVs either side of me, stopped in the advanced stop area. It's always hairy pulling away from there when the cars are behind the line but with 2 HGVs either side of me across the stop line I wasn't going to stick about and get squished.

dnsmiff

redddraggon wrote:

dsmiff wrote:

(if anyone knows it where the a483 joining the a55 in Chester)

I'm assuming your coming from the Wrexham direction? It's not really a place I'd jump the lights.

Start riding on payment about 100 yards before the lights at the end of the A483, get off bike and walk across the lane that filters onto the A55, get back on bike and wait at the next set of lights that lead down towards the post-house towards the business park.

I have never seen a cyclist try to negotiate these lights yet.

Mark Alexander

I would never intentionally go through a red light. I always defend us in work taking the high ground. Until now. I can't .

I was on the way to work on my new fixed and was happily barrelling allong and came to a pedestrian crossing that went red. I was unable to stop in time. Hands up, my fault. I then accidentally went through turning left in a bus/bike lane 50 yards ahead. The only two instances. However, a work mate was in a car by me and mentioned it and now I have lost some ground on the hill to the car drivers.

I still defend us to the hilt.

ransos

dsmiff wrote:

ransos wrote:

I'm afraid that a lot of the excuses given here are just poor cyclecraft. If you position yourself correctly on the road at junctions, cars will not be able to cut you up.

You don't ride this piece of road do you and maybe I have not described it well enough for you to visualise the danger – the lights are at the end of a piece of dual carriageway, many cars traveling at 70mph+? (if anyone knows it where the a483 joining the a55 in Chester)

So when like this morning I'm riding in the pouring rain, I am not going to put the trust in the fact that other drivers have seen me - despite being lit-up like a Christmas tree - The point I wanted to make is I avoid some traffic lights ( and junctions for that matter) because to quote you I don't have your level of cycecraft or confidence.

In fact the danger at the junction is greater when you go through the lights on green.

I still don’t agree with people jumping lights at pedestrian crossing etc.

I rode from Land's End to John O'Groats last year, most of it on main roads, through dozens of towns. I didn't jump a single light, and at no point did I feel I needed to.

dnsmiff

Congratulations - wish I had you ability!

pieinthesky

I am not condoning RLJ ing but how can anybody deny that in some instances it is safer to do so. for instance:

On a large light controlled roundabout, if nothing is coming onto the roundabout and all the cars behind you are stopping for the red lights you get a clear run round and off the roundabout. If you wait for the lights to go green you have 3 lanes of traffic behind you jockying for position and trying to squeeze by and since the opposing lights have just changed you could also get an amber gambler coming at you from the left.

So, I am not arguing that we should jump lights but that it is DEFINATELY safer to do so in some instances regardless of your level of "cyclecraft"

Dunedin397

pieinthesky wrote:

I am not condoning RLJ ing but how can anybody deny that in some instances it is safer to do so. for instance:

On a large light controlled roundabout, if nothing is coming onto the roundabout and all the cars behind you are stopping for the red lights you get a clear run round and off the roundabout. If you wait for the lights to go green you have 3 lanes of traffic behind you jockying for position and trying to squeeze by and since the opposing lights have just changed you could also get an amber gambler coming at you from the left.

So, I am not arguing that we should jump lights but that it is DEFINATELY safer to do so in some instances regardless of your level of "cyclecraft"

You are required to wait until the light is green, regardless of the type of vehicle you're using.

If it's ok for you to ignore the red light, is it ok for the motor vehicles to do the same? It must be according to your example!

It is NOT safer as you are not following the law.

Dunedin

ransos

pieinthesky wrote:

I am not condoning RLJ ing but how can anybody deny that in some instances it is safer to do so. for instance:

On a large light controlled roundabout, if nothing is coming onto the roundabout and all the cars behind you are stopping for the red lights you get a clear run round and off the roundabout. If you wait for the lights to go green you have 3 lanes of traffic behind you jockying for position and trying to squeeze by and since the opposing lights have just changed you could also get an amber gambler coming at you from the left.

So, I am not arguing that we should jump lights but that it is DEFINATELY safer to do so in some instances regardless of your level of "cyclecraft"

I'm afraid that's no better than the drivers who justify speeding by arguing that their ability allows them to judge when it is safe to do so. The trouble is that joe average driver or cyclist is unlikely to be the best person to make that judgement.

ransos

dnsmiff wrote:

Congratulations - wish I had you ability!

I displayed the ability of any reasonably competent cyclist.

iainment

Dunedin397 wrote:

pieinthesky wrote:

I am not condoning RLJ ing but how can anybody deny that in some instances it is safer to do so. for instance:

On a large light controlled roundabout, if nothing is coming onto the roundabout and all the cars behind you are stopping for the red lights you get a clear run round and off the roundabout. If you wait for the lights to go green you have 3 lanes of traffic behind you jockying for position and trying to squeeze by and since the opposing lights have just changed you could also get an amber gambler coming at you from the left.

So, I am not arguing that we should jump lights but that it is DEFINATELY safer to do so in some instances regardless of your level of "cyclecraft"

You are required to wait until the light is green, regardless of the type of vehicle you're using.

If it's ok for you to ignore the red light, is it ok for the motor vehicles to do the same? It must be according to your example!

It it NOT safer because you are not following the law.
Dunedin

It's safer following the law? What planet are you on? There are countless examples of oppressive laws over the centuries, it may be that observance of this law makes things safer - although I think that is arguable - but just because something is the law is no guarantee of safety for people.

:twisted:

pieinthesky

Dunedin397 wrote:

pieinthesky wrote:

I am not condoning RLJ ing but how can anybody deny that in some instances it is safer to do so. for instance:

On a large light controlled roundabout, if nothing is coming onto the roundabout and all the cars behind you are stopping for the red lights you get a clear run round and off the roundabout. If you wait for the lights to go green you have 3 lanes of traffic behind you jockying for position and trying to squeeze by and since the opposing lights have just changed you could also get an amber gambler coming at you from the left.

So, I am not arguing that we should jump lights but that it is DEFINATELY safer to do so in some instances regardless of your level of "cyclecraft"

You are required to wait until the light is green, regardless of the type of vehicle you're using.

If it's ok for you to ignore the red light, is it ok for the motor vehicles to do the same? It must be according to your example!

It it NOT safer because you are not following the law.

Dunedin

Firstly I did point out that I was not condoning jumping red lights just pointing out that it can be safer to do so.

Also if motor vehicles jump the lights (which they do) they do it when their lights are on red and yours are on green therefore putting you in danger. Part of the point I was trying to make was that if you go over a red light when it is clear you are not at risk from that motor vehicle which is jumping the lights.

So it can be safer, but obviously is not legal, so following the law is not always safer.

Dunedin397

pieinthesky wrote:

Dunedin397 wrote:

pieinthesky wrote:

I am not condoning RLJ ing but how can anybody deny that in some instances it is safer to do so. for instance:

On a large light controlled roundabout, if nothing is coming onto the roundabout and all the cars behind you are stopping for the red lights you get a clear run round and off the roundabout. If you wait for the lights to go green you have 3 lanes of traffic behind you jockying for position and trying to squeeze by and since the opposing lights have just changed you could also get an amber gambler coming at you from the left.

So, I am not arguing that we should jump lights but that it is DEFINATELY safer to do so in some instances regardless of your level of "cyclecraft"

You are required to wait until the light is green, regardless of the type of vehicle you're using.

If it's ok for you to ignore the red light, is it ok for the motor vehicles to do the same? It must be according to your example!

It it NOT safer because you are not following the law.

Dunedin

Firstly I did point out that I was not condoning jumping red lights just pointing out that it can be safer to do so.

Also if motor vehicles jump the lights (which they do) they do it when their lights are on red and yours are on green therefore putting you in danger. Part of the point I was trying to make was that if you go over a red light when it is clear you are not at risk from that motor vehicle which is jumping the lights.

So it can be safer, but obviously is not legal, so following the law is not always safer.

I did see that you said you didn't condone it, but the rest of your post DOES condone jumping red lights.

My point is that you, who may be on a bike, or the vehicle beside you, behind you, etc, should obey the law. The vehicle you're using is irrelevant.

I go around a few roundaouts, including a couple similar to what you're describing, and with good cycle craft, they're negotiated without breaking traffic laws.

There is NO justification for not following the rules of the road.

Dunedin

redddraggon

I just avoid Large busy roundabouts, makes everything easier in the long run. The journey might end up a bit longer, but I'd rather enjoy a longer ride than worry on a shorter one.

richardast

If you're worried about a particularly hazardous junction you can always get off and walk your bike. You're then not bound by the traffic lights and you don't make any of the dozens of car drivers think that that cyclists are lawless louts in lycra (that's probably an alliterative quote from The Times or somewhere).

I have no children, but I don't think that you should do anything on your bike that you wouldn't want your kid to do (or see you doing).
Kids copy adults.
If a kid went through a red light because they'd seen me do it and then promptly got wiped out by a car I wouldn't be able to live with myself.

johnnyhotdog

[quote="richardast" you should do anything on your bike that you wouldn't want your kid to do (or see you doing).

[/quote]

i don't.

i'm delighted for all the perfect cyclists on here that can hold their own against a skip lorry, a distracted mother or a motorist on the phone. i really am.

i wish my cyclecraft was up to your lofty standards.

unfortunately, after 12 years of obeying the lights, i discovered that taking an early green was safer for me - I had two near death experiences.

my "cyclecraft," is fine. i have commuted for some time. my road holding is good and my primary positioning is ok.

I am in NO hurry. please do not try to belittle my actions as those of someone who is time deficient.

sadly, the majority of road users that just want to drive through me are always winning the game. this will be my last post on this subject - the sanctimony is overwhelming. i will never be able to compete nor debate ( in the purest sense of the word,) with such perfectionism.


"i LOVE THE SMELL OF SANCTIMONY IN THE MORNING!"

reutercrooks

I treat the red lights as give way junctions. Stop if other traffic is 'in the way', go if the route is clear and safe to do so.

Traffic would flow freely if there was less traffic lights.

richardast

johnnyhotdog
If the majority of road users wanted to drive through you, you wouldn't be here now.
As cyclists, we often exaggerate the number of poor motorists (based on the <1% who pass too close) in much the same way that motorists exaggerate the number of poor cyclists (based on the ?% who rlj and cycle on pavements).

Sorry you found my post sanctimonious. I don't think taking responsibility to set a good example to kids is such a bad thing.

johnnyhotdog

richardast wrote:

johnnyhotdog
If the majority of road users wanted to drive through you, you wouldn't be here now.
As cyclists, we often exaggerate the number of poor motorists (based on the <1% who pass too close) in much the same way that motorists exaggerate the number of poor cyclists (based on the ?% who rlj and cycle on pavements).

Sorry you found my post sanctimonious. I don't think taking responsibility to set a good example to kids is such a bad thing.

you are right, of course. that's the trouble with actually being in the "wrong." of course it's good to be a good example - far better than serving as a horrible warning!

i agree with all the reasons why we shouldn't RLJ.

there are also reasons why i do. i have been driven "through" twice - both times i was observing good cyclecraft and obeying the lights. thankfully, i escaped with minor injuries. i suppose it's why i can be sensitive about this particular subject. it was only after the second incident (not "accident") that i took the decision to pass through if it was clear.

here's some peace and love for everyone -