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You're very big on their hypocrisy when you weren't for the Tories. How would you describe that?
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You're back to 'but, but nasty Tories', which as I've already mentioned is a very poor defence of Labour's poor performance.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]1 -
And as we have the budget to look forward to next month, looks like there are questions being raised about Reeves' comeptence:
While I don't have her down as one of the more dangerous ideological lefties, it does appear that she doesn't know what she's doing.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Can you be specific about their 'poor performance'?
The 'freebiegate' wasn't a good look, even if a fraction of what Tories got up to, but do share your insight about measurable economic indicators that Labour have miraculously made worse in their two months in power.
I realise that you want us all to forget the shitshow, and you and the Tory press might be right that the electorate will have an extremely short memory of how awful it was (especially once Johnson started to work his 'magic'), but that's the reality of what the current have to deal with, of everything from sewage in rivers, a NHS in continual crisis, the court system broken, relations with the EU needing repairing, an immigration service overwhelmed, etc.
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There's plenty of info on their misjudgements and ethical issues in the links I posted - and I know you have a Telegraph subscription or some way round the paywall.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
They are for a few years yet Stevo. Whining non-stories in the Torygraph aren't going to change anything - I guess you're just going to have to accept it or emigrate.
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So no actual evidence of economic 'poor performance'. Thanks for confirming.
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No need for me to emigrate 🙂 But I am enjoying pointing out Labour's many failing and watching them go downhill fast. Does it not bother you that your leftie savours have waited 14 years for this and are making such a hash of their opportunity so quickly?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]1 -
But at least Labour are free from any allegations of poor ethics or sleaze, eh?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]1 -
FWIW, here's an ex-editor of The Sun (David Yelland) retweeting an ex-editor of the Telegraph on the media's current political journalism:
It's pretty obvious that the RW press are doing the Trumpian thing of 'flooding the zone' with so many stories that Starmer feels he has to react to each one and so gets stymied in his agenda. I guess there's just the sore loser element too, and the worry that the corruption of the past five years in particular might be exposed.
It's actually been quite interesting how Harris in the US has not danced to the tune of Trumpian tactics, but has rather set the agenda herself, however hard Trump & Vance invoke Haitia, childless cat ladies and radical Marxists.
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who here claimed labour were savours (sic)?
so far, they're simply not as bad as the serial trainwreck of the tories, which is an extremely low bar, but perhaps they'll do some things that work out well for the country
imo the whole lot are awful, it's built into the parliamentary system, but there's no sign of that being overhauled
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny1 -
Yeah, we are past the spilt milk stage and into make the most of it stage.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Noone is saying they were nasty. Incompetent, yes, but nasty was way beyond their capabilities.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Oh, I'm happy to say they were nasty, including the current frontrunner, Jenrick, who ordered the painting-over of murals that were meant to cheer up traumatised children. If that's not just nasty, I'm not sure what is.
Whilst I'm sure that there are Tory MPs who deep down are decent people wanting to improve their constituents' lives (which is what every MP should be working for, of every party), they've allowed the party to be taken over by the loons, as evidenced by the leadership hopefuls and the drift towards Reform policies.
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They only thing that I have seen that sounds encouraging is what Streeting and Starmers have said about reforming the NHS and that more funding is dependent on this. Whether they will go far enough and succeed against the vested interests remains to be seen.
I suppose we should wait for 30th October before commenting fully on the economic growth side of things but so far I am still too see anything from them that will shift the dial on growth. Whereas the impending tax rises and stronger workers rights already announced typically reduce growth.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Here you go - Labour manage to dent economic confidence just by opening their mouths. Let's see what effect the policies have...
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]1 -
Just a term I use. You can insert the word of your choice instead of nasty, but the point still stands that saying 'but, but .... Tories' is a crap excuse for Labour's failings.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]1 -
Some might say that there are so many articles vecause there are so many failings and problems to report in. Let's see how long before 'buyers remorse' sets in for a lot of Labour voters.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
yep, if they cave-in to the more extreme unions, it'll be just as bad as when truss/kwarteng did the bidding of their tufton street controllers, though it'll take longer for the damage to become manifest
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
So far all the fuss seems to be about buying clothes, which is as trivial as fussing over how much was spent on wallpaper. On the major policy areas:
Housing and development - generally good proposals. Would prefer them to be more adventurous but it's at least a 5 year project to turn this around and very much dependent on what makes it through the consultation process.
Energy - freeing up wind development is good. Not sorting out nuclear is not so good. Unconvinced by GBE.
Transport - not reversing the abandonment of HS2 is a missed opportunity and completing the nationalisation of the railways is not going to solve anything.
Health - seem to get that we can't just keep increasing funding. Beyond that, who knows.
Telling everyone how awful everything is is a bit of a self-fulfilling prophesy, so not surprising that confidence is down. But then it wasn't exactly up in the first place.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
What do you mean, 'if'? Labour already caved in several times already - big pay hikes without extracting any concessions from the unions, some of which have already said that they'll be back for more. This is why I am sceptical that they will be able to overcome vested interests to reform the NHS.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
A few other points:-
Clothes vs wallpaper. Maybe not big from a macro perspective but a really bad look for people like Starmer who were very preachy about it in opposition and made themselves out to be whiter than white when they won the GE.
Economy - nothing to turn the dial on growth despite them saying this is the top priority. The housebuilding initiatives will have some effect if it get going, but nowhere near enough on its own. Tax rises and reduced labour market flexibility will harm growth.
Immigration - they have done nothing to deter illegal immigration. Talk of smashing the gangs looks like hot air. I posted recently that legal immigration had started to come down under the last months of the Tories so Labour cant claim any credit for that.
EU reset - dream on. The EU isn't interested unless the UK makes big concessions and many member states are headed rightwards.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]1 -
should've been resolved ago, but the last lot preferred to waste time and opportunity, better to draw a line
if it was as easy as you seem to think, why didn't the tories do it?
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
Its not easy to do deals with union headbangers, but capitulating in the way that Labour did (generous settlements with no strings attached or concessions in return from the unions) was just pathetic.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Couldn't give a damn about whether it's a good look or not. Makes zero difference to my daily life.
I think any government's ability to make growth happen is very limited. We've seen the last government pouring money into this and that and it made minimal difference. Much easier for them to hamper it, though. And I think all the talk of difficult times ahead is a mistake, however much they are trying to manage expectations..
As for asylum, the only important change to make is to speed up decisions and stop parking people in hotels at inordinate cost. There seems to be some movement on that. If you want to believe that the nonsense Rwanda scheme was anything other than a win for Rwanda, crack on. Not sure why Starmer is wasting time talking to Meloni. Meloni is just paying thugs to beat people up in North Africa: desperate people will find another route soon enough. You know my views on regular immigration in general. We should spend more time on 'who?' than 'how many?'
EU reset - sure, nobody sensible is expecting big changes. The damage is done and it can't be waved away. A veterinary/SPS agreement would be sensible and more use than a few student exchanges.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
The first point matters to quite a few voters.
While I agree that many people overestimate government ability to create growth, this is what Labour have said they will do, so they will be judged on it.
Immigration, disagree. They need to get a grip on it otherwise they will suffer at the next election. However they won't.
EU - don't mind a bit of fiddling at the edges but not at the expense of allowing the EU to get its tentacles around us. We don't need to get any closer to a low growth, over-regulated bloc.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Slightly worrying - given that Labour may well give the likes of Lynch the opportunity to do it.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Lol. This is like some fever dream.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
More of a nightmare probably.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Meanwhile we're looking forward to the return of the sausages from Gaza 😀
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
