Euro 2024 thread
Comments
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Watched in the pub (decidedly delicate this morning)
Great first half
Great Dutch goal
IMHO definite penalty - as mentioned by others on this thread, its a free kick anywhere else on the pitch (cf Belligham booking). Also, that penalty was football karma. Think Lampard disallowed goal in 2010, think Beckham red card, think Rooney red card, think Hand of God . . . this time England got the rub of the green
Excellent tactical change from Koemans at HT clipped England's wings somewhat in the second half.
Pickford kept us in it with that reflex save
We can only say the substitutions of Cole (assist) and Wakins (goal) were great management
Watkins goal was a thing of beauty
Foden looked very dangerous - two disallowed goals earlier in the tournament, the ball saved off the line and his shot against the woodwork - he could be contending for the golden boot!
Anyone who tries to compare tournament footy with the league lacks understanding of what is required in a tournament and, by definition, what is required of the manager of an international team.
By any meaningful metric anyone wants to use, Southgate is the best manager England have had in 60 years. I have so enjoyed watching what he has done with the team on the pitch and what he has done to develop the players as humble, hard working young men who clearly enjoy the England experience more than their predecessors. I have to say I think I am genuinely as concerned about who we will have after GS as I am about the result on Sunday. Southgate has taken the embarrassment out of being an England fan for me. The fans as well as the players are better people.
Has anyone got Penny Mourdant's mobile number for @First Aspect? He may need it on Sunday evening.
Spain are lucky to be in the final. All that high pressure, high pressing, flashy foootball would leave gaps for any quality side to exploit*
*This could be irony
Wilier Izoard XP0 -
Agreed. Despite having done a fair bit of bike racing, I wouldn't really feel qualified to question pro team tactics, other than something obvious like Movistar riders attacking each other. (*) My only real observations from racing are:
- Don't let gaps form
- Don't open up your sprint too early
- Don't open up your sprint too late
- Don't ride in the wind too much
- Don't get boxed in at the vital moment
i.e. nothing beyond the blindingly obvious!
I would guess the insight players gain from local league footy are similarly superficial re what's required in a multi-week tournament.
(*) Though I would observe that when Pog attacked yesterday, Yates' facial expression suggested that a different plan had been discussed at the UAE breakfast table!
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Agree with pretty much all of this, but the Beckham and Rooney red cards were justified, surely? (Even if they wouldn't have been given in the Premiership.) They both let their emotions get the better of them and were "mugged" by much cannier players.
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Oh for sure but "justifiable" as opposed to "justified" if you see what I mean - the point being that there was an argument either way and the decision went against England on those occasions, last night there was an argument either way and the decision went with England.
Wilier Izoard XP0 -
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Beckham's was (to paraphrase the Footy Twitterati) "100% a red card". The ball was dead and he kicked an opponent.
Rooney was maybe unlucky, if you take the view that kicking opponents in the nadgers is OK. The Portguese players were winding up Rooney from before kick-off, knowing that he'd explode sooner rather than later.
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It wasn’t “expert pub opinions” it was a rammed pub where no one knew why it was a penalty. That says something.
Not a single person was calling for a pen.
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Danny Baker was well past his sell by date 25 years ago.
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Viewing the fine detail in a pub isn't particularly easy, so the viewers likely missed the important bit. Feels unlikely that VAR gets it wrong whereas a pub full of people with restricted vision (and potentially alcohol consumption that would make driving illegal) gets it right.
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Really think the pro VAR lot are missing the point football at this point.
If it's not given, no-one is going to be crying that the ref missed a pen. Not even the England team thought it was a pen, you can see it.
There is a reason the internet is full of memes of the ref partying with the english team after the game.
It's fine, England would have won anyway - it's not like Holland feel especially robbed ,but this idea it's quite clearly a penalty is nonsense.
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Some of the comment to Baker's tweet are interesting. Reassuringly, he appears to have "misread the room".
There were some anti-Southgate comments though, revealing a new genre of rewriting history.
In WC 1998, Hoddle assured us that but for Beckham being sent off, England would have beaten Argentina, then beaten the Dutch (who beat the Argentians) and then the Brazilians (who beat the Dutch) and finally the French (who beat the Brazilians).
Now history re-writing involves claims that had England been on the other side of the draw, they wouldn't have made the QFs!
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OK, but VAR is in place. So that's that with reference to last night.
Whether VAR should be used, or used the way it is, is another matter.
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More concerned with the way it detects off side than calling attention to a clear foul.
The off side rule needs changing to reflect the new reality.
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This is exactly the kind of thing I am referring to. How can anyone 'horribly mismanage' a team to a major final? It is quite clearly irrational bollox and says more about Baker's opinion of Southgate rather than a reasonable assessment of his approach to the tournament.
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Pretty much sums it up. I am by no means an expert but I played to a reasonable level, my Dad played at a very high level. I worked on projects around youth coaching with Arsenal, Charlton, Spurs and a few other professional clubs and my last two next door neighbours were PL and League 1 Managers respectively. I know it may be a bit big headed of me, but I would say I have more than a passing knowledge of the game, which is why I genuinely have a problem with much of the criticism aimed at Southgate. The majority of it just doesn't accurately reflect how his teams are set up and have performed at major tournaments.
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Sorry. Are you saying that VAR was applied incorrectly?
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FWIW and IIRC the VAR shill on ITV initially explained why it wasn't a penalty. It was quite entertaining listening to her backtrack once given. 🤣
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
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So, Kane shoots, Dumfries lunges, "studs up" around waist height and makes firm contact with Kanes foot. Explain to me why it wasn't a penalty.
Wilier Izoard XP0 -
lol if you want to make up what happened so it makes you feel better it's a pen, go for it.
Everyone knows it's the softest pen in the whole tournament.
If what happens in a game isn't immediately obvious it doesn't have a place in football. The whole appeal of football is anyone can follow it with know prior knowledge. When everyone's looking around going "WTF is going on" it's not worthy of being in football. It's not the NFL, it's not rugby.
It's fine, it's not why the Dutch lost, but come on.
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OK - your version?
Just curious to understand why it should not have been awarded
Wilier Izoard XP0 -
Kane successfully shoots on target. As his foot follows through, the defender is trying to block the shot. Kane's follow through hits the defender who's using his foot to try to block the ball, 'cos, you know, it's football. Kane claims he's hurt and stays down till the pen is awarded.
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The counter view is that Kane kicked him with his follow through, and indeed, if the defender hadn't chosen to do something dangerous and had instead just been kicked, he wouldn't have been penalised for dangerous play.
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Ha, yes, some gobby Yank to top it off.
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Would you not say that would be a free kick if it were out of the box?
It is a "tight call" for sure but I do think it was the right one (given how the modern game is officiated). I feel I should say that had it been given against England, I'd have been pissed off!
Wilier Izoard XP0 -
I won the European cup with various teams including Cardiff and Shrewsbury on Championship Manager in the 1990s. I'm surprised I wasn't approached for the Wales vacancy but guess they wanted a 'name' rather than the best qualified candidate.
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Regardless of the decision, it is worth pointing out the sheer unbridled joy and slight disbelief on Ollie Watkins face when he scored the winner. We all slag footballers off on occasion (I certainly do) for being overpaid prima donnas, but seeing how much it meant to him was actually quite a touching moment in amongst it all.
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I mean, if even one person in about the 300 who I was watching it with thought it was a penalty I’d have been more sympatheticx
i dont think anyone watching it was thinking “yeah that’s a shout for a pen”.
no one would have mentioned it as even a moment if it wasn’t awarded
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