Euro 2024 thread
Comments
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Would that be a bad thing?
The issue is the studs and where the bodyweight is directed.
I do think last night was harsh, but I don't think the decision or the direction the rules are headed is stupid or cataclysmic for the way the game is played.
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For me, as odd as it may sound, Southgate's time in charge isn't just about tactics but the change he has brought in about how the players feel about playing for England. We now know the era of Gerrard, Scholes and Beckham etc was not one of happiness, they weren't at war with each other but not exactly a united bunch either. They all seem to really enjoy being there now as a result of Southgate has done.
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I think 11 a side and 5 a side are two different sports. I have no interest in 5 a side. Other opinions are available.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
It wouldn't have been a penalty if there had been contract and his studs were not up.
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The rules are the rules, but this means you can't lift a foot above waist height or it is automatically a foul.
What about overhead kicks? (Just for fun).
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Plenty of overhead kicks are given as fouls for dangerous play.
I think this one is notable because it was given as a foul against the striker. If the positions were reversed and Kane had attempted to block a clearance with studs up and made contact, that would be a foul and not controversial.
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Not at all, but the criticisms most people make have no basis in objective reality. As a Manager his responsibility is to win football games which he does with regularity. In four major tournaments his record is 1 qtr final, 1 semi final and now 2 finals. The only Managers in international football in the last 20 or 30 years with a better track record are Vicente Del Bosque and Didier Deschamps.
I don't feel threatened in anyway by people who want to analyse Southgate and point out tactical failings, but there is simply no logic to the argument that Southgate makes numerous tactical failings if we still keep winning. The argument gets made that it is luck or the players are rescuing him. That is one hell of a lucky manager to make back to back European finals if he is so tactically inept and keeps picking the wrong players!
I would enjoy it while it lasts, as I suspect once he leaves we are going back to an era that may not be quite as successful as Southgate's.
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Also, read through the thread, I have questioned selections and tactics at various points. I suggested from the first game that TAA should not be picked in midfield, and that Mainoo or Wharton should come in. Something Southgate then did himself (albeit a game too late).
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What about Scaloni? Mancini has also won something.
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Not sure I agree with that. I'm a fan, and am quite happy for analysis to be undertaken, but such analysis needs to be meaningful and account for the fact that even the so-called "lesser teams" are not easy to beat, and that the group stage is simply a step on the way.
My grouse is that many critics seem to think for some reason, this squad of players should be ripping it up like the highlights reel of Brazil 1970 in every match, steamrollering their way to the inevitable winner's podium, overlooking the fact that the previously much-hyped "Golden Generation" would have sold their grannies into slavery for the level of success enjoyed in the Southgate era.
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You're making this hard work. Overhead kicks are not studs first. Kane kicked the ball at the same height without using his studs. Also, as has been pointed out, overhead kicks are penalised for being dangerous if a defenders head is anywhere nearby.
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100% agree with you - he has some real strengths.
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
lol I think you're the one making it hard work.
In the pub, where no-one could hear the commentary everyone was absolutely baffled what the problem was and everyone was confused why it even went to VAR, let a alone gave a penalty.
No-one cared, it was given, but come on BB. It was an incredibly soft pen.
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Yes I don't really believe that all Southgate fans are like that but decided to reply in kind to the caricature painted of those who may have questioned him as racist brexiteers.
However it is noticeable those who do support Southgate vociferously rarely comment on his tactics or analyse anything about what he does but defer to his position and greater experience in the game. There probably is something in them being naturally deferential and conflict averse.
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Agreed. I saw an article elsewhere about one of the reserve goalies. He's apparently always first to the "group hugs" and spends a lot of time helping Pickford in training, even though he knows he's got no chance - bar injury - of playing. The same must apply to some of the other "perma subs" too. There is a real team spirit to this team. (And mercifully no focus on any WAGs...)
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I wasn't listening to the commentary. Just looked at it, thought it was a definite penalty and expected VAR to ignore it.
Expert pub opinions are one of things I dislike about watching international football.
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I'd suggest any analysis of his results shows significantly more success than most England managers and that's the fairest way to judge him. I don't think his playing style is particularly unintelligent it's just painfully conservative.
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I don't particularly comment on tactics as I don't have any particularly relevant experience. My focus is on results, and the only logical conclusion from results is that Sir Gareth (surely!) is doing something materially better than his predecessors. It can't all be down to luck, particularly as this generation of players can't possibly be as good as the much-revered Golden Generation!
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A lot of commentators on ref decisions are based on an "in my day" perspective. Prime culprits are the managers' rantings and Martin Keown.
You only need to look at Ronaldo da Silva or Maradonna in his later years to realise that something had to change.
Back to the 5 a side comment earlier (sorry can't remember who), I suspect in a shorter time than we think heading will be outlawed. To be honest, the reasons might be hard to argue against.
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I'm perplexed by how many commentators are still surprised that the flag doesn't go up immediately when someone looks off side, and also by how they expected the ref to not overturn his decision when invited to review it by VAR.
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I think it was Conor Coady (?) who was a squad player on one of the previous two tournaments who was asked if he would rather be on holiday as he wasn't playing at all and said not a chance, he was having the time of his life just being part of the group.
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To be fair, I am not talking about people who genuinely question his tactics i.e. you DV. I am talking about the fan type who just doesn't like Southgate purely on a personal level because he does not share their politics and dresses this up as a footballing matter. Of course, this is not every England fan but there are quite a lot of them.
As I said, I have no issue with anyone genuinely questioning his tactics, player selection etc, but I also feel that on balance, his results and successes outweigh any tactical errors as he wins big matches more often than not.
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The ref very occasionally overrules VAR. I saw it once last season.
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Fair point, I was thinking more over several tournaments. Scaloni should certainly be in that bracket as well.
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This seems a fair interpretation: https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/40534763/var-review-harry-kane-penalty-england-netherlands-correct-call
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Yup. Deffo something to tell the grandkids about! And they get paid for doing it too.
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Yes, so injured he got back up and scored the penalty.
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You've missed the ones who go from 'we're terrible, Southgate should be sacked and most of the players should never had been picked' to 'it's coming home' in the space of 90 minutes.
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They are the ones that really do my head in 😉
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I'm going to go out on a limb and say most people who discuss football tactics in depth have no real knowledge and are regurgitating what they've heard the experts on TV say or other supporters in the pub / ground / radio phone in.
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