England Goes Smoke Free

lakejump · June 2007

IM NOT A SMOKER! I WAS MERLEY STATING THAT SMOKERS WERE COMPLETE DIC*S

Fantastic Mr Fox · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by yeehaamcgee

There seems to be an incredulity here towards Mr Fox's statement that there is no genuine scientific links between second hand smoke and cancer.

Sure, there are (obviously) skewed reports from both tobacco companies, and health companies.
BUT
Most other independent studies have actually been pretty inconclusive. It pretty much comes to light that there 'may' be a link between second hand smoke and cancer. 'May' is not, in my opinion, nor in many scientist's opinions, a strong enough outcome of any research, to base laws upon.

Also, it is quite common for results to be skewed (either way) either maliciously, or through a simple slip in research technique.
For example
<hr noshade size="1">
a 1000 people who suffer from cancer were questioned. we also recorded how many of them do not smoke, but have been exposed at some point in time to second hand smoke.
lets say that 500 of them do not smoke, and of them, 490 had been exposed to second hand smoke (SHS).
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From this we could conclude that 100% of non smokers questioned, who were exposed to SHS, were diagnosed with cancer.

This sounds logical enough, until you realise that you can also draw the following conclusions...

98% of questioned non-smokers were diagnosed with cancer, after being exposed to SHS.
50% of cancer sufferers questioned were smokers.
50% of cancer sufferers questioned were non-smokers.
49% of cancer sufferers questioned were non smokers who had been exposed to SHS
only 1% of cancer sufferers questioned were non smokers who had not been exposed to SHS.

Again, logical? yes. straightforward? yes.

HOWEVER.
The crucial error in this experiment would be that ONLY sufferers were questioned.
The figures will be high, because we've only got a sample of people who contracted cancer.
<hr noshade size="1">

The point about all these reports is that they will be skewed, intentionally, or not. Even on scientific review, the methods employed are genuine, and the actual results are real.
The problem is which method is used to represent the findings.

Everybody has a side.
Any scientist who would be involved independently would already have a hypothesis, consciously, or unconsciously, of the outcome. The scientist would not carry out a study if it were not of interest to him.
Therefore, if a scientist is a smoker, he/she will be more likely to reveal the results as being slightly in favour of smokers - whilst still maintaining scientific truth.
If a scientist is a non-smoker, he/she will be more likely to reveal the results as dire - WHILST STILL MAINTAINING SCIENTIFIC TRUTH.

If a scientist has no interest whatsoever in the matter, and is only doing the investigation because he/she is being paid for doing so, then whatever lobby group paid for the research will put it's own twist on the results.

THIS is why I will not blindly accept stated facts and figures. I would rather read the scientific press, and come to my own conclusions (which again, may be skewed by my world view).

And just for the record, yes I am a smoker, I'm not denying that SHS may be a key contributor to health problems, I'm just trying to help explain why Mr Fox has these views, as some of you don't seem to believe that this could be possible.

As for the smoking ban in Wales. Well, I have only been out to the pubs once since it came into force. I just couldn't be arsed with the hassle of going outside all the time - I smoke much more when I'm drunk. However, my lack of drinking has meant that I've lost a stone and a half in weight since the smoking ban has come onto force, and the health benefits seem greater than when I previously stopped smoking for 2 months!

<hr noshade size="1">
My trusty steed
1999 marin wolfridge, Marzocchi Jr Ts, Saint cranks, D321 rims, Hope C2s, raceface bits and bobs, XT running gear. All vintage stuff! (apart from the saints)
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<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thankyou [:D]

<hr noshade size="1"><center>I'd rather not.</center>

Anonymous · June 2007

Hey, look. Some of us have tried to stop. It's harder than you could ever understand unless you've been there yourself.
I used to get mashed up on clubbing medicine, but once it started screwing my head for real, I stopped, and never looked back. Same goes for smoking green.
Tobacco, however, I just can't get rid of. And believe me I've tried. It's my biggest regret.

<hr noshade size="1">
My trusty steed
1999 marin wolfridge, Marzocchi Jr Ts, Saint cranks, D321 rims, Hope C2s, raceface bits and bobs, XT running gear. All vintage stuff! (apart from the saints)
<hr noshade size="1">

Fantastic Mr Fox · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by lakejump

IM NOT A SMOKER! I WAS MERLEY STATING THAT SMOKERS WERE COMPLETE DIC*S
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Oh right, how long have you been smoking for?

Your such an arse, I hope your happy with yourself. Imposing all your second hand smoke on others.

<hr noshade size="1"><center>I'd rather not.</center>

lakejump · June 2007

OH GOOD TOWARDS THE BEGINNING OF THIS ENTRY IT SEEMED LIKE YOU WERE A SMOKER? IM SORRY

lacuna · June 2007

Cigarette smoke is full of carcinogens.
Carcinogens are substances known to cause cancer.
But passive doesn't cause cancer? hmmmm.

Besides that its horrible and I'm pleased the ban is being brought in. I will happier to go out when it happens

<center>Mythic Meg</center>

Fantastic Mr Fox · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by lakejump

OH GOOD TOWARDS THE BEGINNING OF THIS ENTRY IT SEEMED LIKE YOU WERE A SMOKER? IM SORRY
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Cool, want to learn to use a keyboard? If you press the 'Caps Lock' key you can write like a literate person.

I can't believe people like you. Imposing you illiterate way's on other people.

<hr noshade size="1"><center>I'd rather not.</center>

lakejump · June 2007

ive changed my mind again - mr fox your a complete tw*t sort your fuc*ing life out you dic*

Ben · June 2007

lakejump, you sound like you're about 5 yearstoo young to go into a pub anyway you idiot, so just learn when to f*ck off and stop being such an ignorant penis.

.

lakejump · June 2007

yay causing corruption is fun! nope im 23 actually! but i figured that maturity sucks
your all wan*ers hahahahahahahah! di*k!di*k!di*k!di*k!

Ben · June 2007

Gosh, well you're clearly making a good life for yourself at 23; keep it up...

.

lakejump · June 2007

yer i have fun!

whyamihere · June 2007

lakejump: Do you want me to ban you? If not, grow up and stop behaving like a moron.

lakejump · June 2007

yes please!

pri*k

Mike Skinner · June 2007

right, with that out of the way, and the football finished, where did we get to? or have we rounded up?

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Kitty · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mike Skinner

right, with that out of the way, and the football finished, where did we get to? or have we rounded up?

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<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Look back to my last post.

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Red Lemon · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mike Skinner
should I not be accomodated as comfortably as a non-smoker?
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You are. You're just being asked not to compromise the comfort of those who don't share your desire to inhale toxic chemicals.

azzz · June 2007

wots wrong with smokin in public, this country is forcing people to stop doing somthing because a few people dont like it, well i got a message 4 them, TOUGHEN THE F***UP, WIMP!'

Mike Skinner · June 2007

I'm not, because I'm not comfortable not smoking with my beer, and I'm not comfortable going out in the rain.

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Ben · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mike Skinner

I'm not, because I'm not comfortable not smoking with my beer, and I'm not comfortable going out in the rain.

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<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Too right

.

ElephantMan · June 2007

Ok, yes yes yes, I've skipped to the 10th page and not read a single post, but I'm going to give my opinion anyway:

"Pathetic Nanny State" is all I have to say on the matter.

Oh and I've never touched a cigarette in my life. Nor do I ever intend to.

Mike Skinner · June 2007

nice frank, you've skipped everything and pretty much come in in the right place with that.

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Red Lemon · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by yeehaamcgee
Most other independent studies have actually been pretty inconclusive. It pretty much comes to light that there 'may' be a link between second hand smoke and cancer. 'May' is not, in my opinion, nor in many scientist's opinions, a strong enough outcome of any research, to base laws upon.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The problem is that a study that conclusively proved a link between cancer and second hand smoke in humans would be rather unethical and impractical to carry out. Laws have to be based on the evidence available.

For the record, I am a scientist.

Red Lemon · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by azzz

wots wrong with smokin in public, this country is forcing people to stop doing somthing because a few people dont like it, well i got a message 4 them, TOUGHEN THE F***UP, WIMP!'
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
You signed up for the forum specifically to post that?

lacuna · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mike Skinner

I'm not comfortable going out in the rain.

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<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

well maybe you should....

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mike Skinner

stop pissing about and just tell England to "toughen the fuck up"

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<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

[;)]

<center>Mythic Meg</center>

Mike Skinner · June 2007

Harden the fuck up Australia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y

(you need to know who Chopper is to understand this little gem)

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Red Lemon · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mike Skinner

I'm not, because I'm not comfortable not smoking with my beer, and I'm not comfortable going out in the rain.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Well you have two groups. Neither can be made comfortable in the same environment. One group wants to fill the air with shit that, at the very least, stinks, and at worst is carcinogenic. Which do you give priority to?

Thankfully, the government agree with my view. You'll just have to suck it up and enjoy the cold.

Mike Skinner · June 2007

you do have a choice. smoking and non-smoking bars.
they already exist.

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nirveous · June 2007

So, if I decide I don't want to smell bad, get a sore throat, sore eyes, and potentially risk my life, does this make me a wimp?

<hr noshade size="1">The Hardrock

Mike Skinner · June 2007

yup, next
harden the fuck up

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England Goes Smoke Free

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