England Goes Smoke Free

Big Red S · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mike Skinner

But you speak as if you are giving smokers the choice. You're (you being the people supporting the ban, not you personally, clearly) not at all. As mentioned, this is the first step to banning smoking, but an almost pointless one IMO.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Choice about what? The legislation?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Smoking has been proved to be a fairly high risk habit, passive smoking, while posing minor health risks isn't a huge strain on many people or the NHS.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I'd be interested to see the figures for the latter point.
Either way, does it need to be detrimental to health in order to be banned? Can it not be banned for being irritating?
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Banning smoking would be the responsible thing for a givernment to do.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It would be the logical thing for a government of an irresponsible populace to do.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
While I don't think much of the nanny state at all, I do appreciate that smoking is probably harmful enough to validate being made illegal. Allowing people to still smoke, but just telling them to keep it out of pubs, which have been smoky since their conception serves little real purpose except to the minority who strongly object to cigarette smoke
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
There've been pubs longer than we've had tobacco.

I really don't see the problem with being told that you may only smoke in private and outside. Surely if you're in favour of an outright ban, you could just treat this as such? As you've stated earlier, in public it's essentially the same thing.

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Kitty · June 2007

Loads of you say it doesn't bother you and seem so selfish because you want to push your disgusting habit on other people but it would be different if you or someone close to you got lung cancer, fair enough it might only be a small number of people but if that number can be reduce and totally cut for passive smokers then why the hell should we not ban it?

It will save lives and maybe it's not significant to some of you but what if it was your life, or someone you love, how would you feel then?

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ToMBeMe · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by blacksun

Hell, alcohol should be banned because it makes _some_ people act like twats.

Is that valid.. would that ever happen?

<hr noshade size="1">
'You don't like smurfs?'

'Fuck those little blue bastards. They look like a town of deformed fetuses that were suffocated and thrown into a mushroom patch'.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Some day there might be a ban on drinking, no one knows and ill be old mans stamp collectioned if you can _prove_ there wont be. I can remeber something allong the lines of if alcohol was discovered today it would be illegal. The fact that they dont make it illegal is the fact that its too big a part of society.

Mike Skinner · June 2007

it can be reduced and cut, by banning smoking. but they havent done that.

BRS, I'm not in favour of a smoking ban, I wish to continue smoking un-annoyingly to others, as I feel I now quite well. However, I'm not in favour of this ban that will not stop smoking related health problems, but will make me sit in the rain.

The problem with being told you can only smoke (in private and) outside, is that it isn't practicable to smoke outside with our climate year around, so smokers are effectively being told they can't smoke when socialising when the weather is bad.

I consider that unreasonable

(back in a few, dinners up)

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roryf · June 2007

It will stop more smoking-related health problems than it will create, because the passive smoking illnesses won't occur, and normal smokers won't get any more illnesses, as, according to you, they won't go outside to smoke when the weather is bad. When the weather is good, it's likely that they'd be outside smoking regardless of the ban, as they'd be sunbathing/sitting in a beer garden etc.

Big Red S · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Kitty

Loads of you say it doesn't bother you and seem so selfish because you want to push your disgusting habit on other people but it would be different if you or someone close to you got lung cancer, fair enough it might only be a small number of people but if that number can be reduce and totally cut for passive smokers then why the hell should we not ban it?

It will save lives and maybe it's not significant to some of you but what if it was your life, or someone you love, how would you feel then?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I've known three people now die of lung and/or throat cancers, but I'm still not really in support of the ban.
I certainly don't think that's a very good reason to support the ban.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mike Skinner

BRS, I'm not in favour of a smoking ban, I wish to continue smoking un-annoyingly to others, as I feel I now quite well.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yes, but not everyone does. Not all smokers realise how potent the smell of smoke is.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
However, I'm not in favour of this ban that will not stop smoking related health problems, but will make me sit in the rain.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
So bannings are only allowed in order to avoid health problems?
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
The problem with being told you can only smoke (in private and) outside, is that it isn't practicable to smoke outside with our climate year around, so smokers are effectively being told they can't smoke when socialising when the weather is bad.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
But they can. Dedicated smoking shelters are allowed, reccomended even. Venues with a large amount of smoking patrons will surely build these and make them comfortable.

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Crazy Dave C · June 2007

Mike, you don't want to be sat outside in the cold and rain so you can wrap your lips around a fag and suck on it? Yet on the very first page of this very topic you posted this...

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mike Skinner

Or alternatively, stop pissing about and just tell England to "toughen the fuck up"<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You are the one that needs to toughen up.

Mike Skinner · June 2007

CDC. I again follow this up with: you can't smoke a cigarette in the rain.

BRS, yes, I think the solution to this ban if it must happen (as it is) is that pubs and offices should provide smoking areas outside.

However from my experience of 'smoking areas' in airports and similar, this will be a dimeaning little box, as small as can be practicle, placed outside as an afterthought. Which will make smokers miserable as they huddle into an overcrowded area, and will make the locations look worse with fag-buts piled all over.

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roryf · June 2007

It could be said that you are lucky to have any sort of shelter at all.

Mike Skinner · June 2007

why?
Why because I choose to smoke, which is completely legal, (This is what annoys me, people act as if smokers are doing something wrong, we're not, at all, please bare that in mind) should I not be accomodated as comfortably as a non-smoker?

Try to wear the other persons shoe (metaphorically speaking), and imagine that the majority of the population _did_ smoke. You as a non-smoker have done nothing wrong, yet are being told to go and stand outside to avoid the smoke.

That is effectively why smokers feel put out

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roryf · June 2007

Yes, but it doesn't work like that. Smoky air doesn't aggravate smokers, but it can aggravate non-smokers. However, clean air aggravates nobody, whether they smoke or not. Therefore, it is 100% logical for the smokers to go outside, rather than the non-smokers to go outside.

Kitty · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Big Red S

But they can. Dedicated smoking shelters are allowed, reccomended even. Venues with a large amount of smoking patrons will surely build these and make them comfortable.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Why the hell should they waste money on shelter, instead why not put it towards helping people quit, if shelters aren't made and they aren't supported surely it will encourage people to quit. The less people who smoke the more pressure it will put on the people who still do smoke.

If everyone eventually quit then we won't have the health issues related to smoking at all. Therefore in the long run saving the NHS money, which could be spent on much better things in my opinion.

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roryf · June 2007

The venues will make shelters, because large amount of their customers will smoke. If there is nowhere for them to smoke, chances are, they won't visit that venue so much any more.

ToMBeMe · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mike Skinner

why?
Why because I choose to smoke, which is completely legal, (This is what annoys me, people act as if smokers are doing something wrong, we're not, at all, please bare that in mind) should I not be accomodated as comfortably as a non-smoker?

Try to wear the other persons shoe (metaphorically speaking), and imagine that the majority of the population _did_ smoke. You as a non-smoker have done nothing wrong, yet are being told to go and stand outside to avoid the smoke.

That is effectively why smokers feel put out

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<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">If you dont like it, quit.

Mike Skinner · June 2007

yes, clearly I can see clean air doesn't annoy anyone, that wasn't really my point.

The fact smokers are being punished (effectively) when they are doing nothing illegal, not even anti-sociable is where the problem is.

Yes, there are people who strongly object to smoky atmoshpheres. However the majority of people, smokers or not, appreciate that pubs are smoky, and not many people do actualyl have an objectionable problem with that.

Therefore I suggest the small minority who hate smoke, stay out of pubs, and the indifferent majority just leave things the heck alone.

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UH DH · June 2007

How about to even things up, we go and set fire to things?

QUERTY QUERTY QUERTY

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by the abductor
++kschhh-schhh++ Madeline, I AM your father ++kschhh-schhh++<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Crazy Dave C · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
CDC. I again follow this up with: you can't smoke a cigarette in the rain.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It is possible, if you can't then you'll have to learn or not bother.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">BRS, yes, I think the solution to this ban if it must happen (as it is) is that pubs and offices should provide smoking areas outside.

However from my experience of 'smoking areas' in airports and similar, this will be a dimeaning little box, as small as can be practicle, placed outside as an afterthought. Which will make smokers miserable as they huddle into an overcrowded area, and will make the locations look worse with fag-buts piled all over.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Smoiking areas are provided outside in Scotland. It's called 'outside'. If there is a public shelter type area for smoking then it's then classed as a public building or whatever they are calling them and makes it illegal to smoke in them. I think the whole idea of making people stand in sh<s></s>it weather to smoke is a good one as it might encourage people to quit.

blacksun · June 2007

Kitty, why should there be pubs and clubs when alcohol causes so many diseases too? Why should there be junk food out there when obesity causes the health service millions a year too?

So many things can be banned.

<hr noshade size="1">
'You don't like smurfs?'

'Fuck those little blue bastards. They look like a town of deformed fetuses that were suffocated and thrown into a mushroom patch'.

roryf · June 2007

Alcohol and junk food don't cause damage in moderation. Smoking causes damage however much of it is done. That is the logic behind which things should be banned and which shouldn't.

UH DH · June 2007

Yeah, but drinking and eating McDonalds doesn't give bystanders cancer.

QUERTY QUERTY QUERTY

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by the abductor
++kschhh-schhh++ Madeline, I AM your father ++kschhh-schhh++<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

blacksun · June 2007

It still causes problems to some people just as smoking only affects some people.

<hr noshade size="1">
'You don't like smurfs?'

'Fuck those little blue bastards. They look like a town of deformed fetuses that were suffocated and thrown into a mushroom patch'.

UH DH · June 2007

Bo<s></s>llocks.

When I used to chef, everyone else smoked, so you had to stick around with them if you didn't want to be excluded. After 2 years of that, I now have a permanent bad throat.

Anyone saying that passive smoking isn't bad for people around the smoker, is a fu<s></s>cking moron.

QUERTY QUERTY QUERTY

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by the abductor
++kschhh-schhh++ Madeline, I AM your father ++kschhh-schhh++<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

whyamihere · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by blacksun
Kitty, why should there be pubs and clubs when alcohol causes so many diseases too? Why should there be junk food out there when obesity causes the health service millions a year too?

So many things can be banned.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">She doesn't drink or eat junk food, like me, no point arguing those angles to us, I wouldn't have any kind of problem with a ban on alcohol or junk food. I'd fully support them, in fact, because of the problems caused by alcohol and junk food.

blacksun · June 2007

Passive smoking can be bad for you, but, it doesn't affect everyone. Not everyone will contract cancer of any kind from passive or first hand smoking.

<hr noshade size="1">
'You don't like smurfs?'

'Fuck those little blue bastards. They look like a town of deformed fetuses that were suffocated and thrown into a mushroom patch'.

blacksun · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by whyamihere

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by blacksun
Kitty, why should there be pubs and clubs when alcohol causes so many diseases too? Why should there be junk food out there when obesity causes the health service millions a year too?

So many things can be banned.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">She doesn't drink or eat junk food, like me, no point arguing those angles to us, I wouldn't have any kind of problem with a ban on alcohol or junk food. I'd fully support them, in fact, because of the problems caused by alcohol and junk food.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

True, but it was just a different perspective on the whole 'things are bad for you issue'.

<hr noshade size="1">
'You don't like smurfs?'

'Fuck those little blue bastards. They look like a town of deformed fetuses that were suffocated and thrown into a mushroom patch'.

jAckAsS o__0 · June 2007

Im looking forward to it as people smoke on my school bus every day.
Im starting to get a smokers cough even though I've never smoked in my life...

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Crazy Dave C · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by blacksun

Passive smoking can be bad for you, but, it doesn't affect everyone. Not everyone will contract cancer of any kind from passive or first hand smoking.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No, but then not everyone won't. Your argument is invalid IMO.

blacksun · June 2007

Your driver needs to be fired.

<hr noshade size="1">
'You don't like smurfs?'

'Fuck those little blue bastards. They look like a town of deformed fetuses that were suffocated and thrown into a mushroom patch'.

blacksun · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Crazy Dave C

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by blacksun

Passive smoking can be bad for you, but, it doesn't affect everyone. Not everyone will contract cancer of any kind from passive or first hand smoking.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No, but then not everyone won't. Your argument is invalid IMO.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

What about my point of view on alcohol and junk food? is that invalid?

Not everone will die as a result of either, but some people will. Should they be banned next?

<hr noshade size="1">
'You don't like smurfs?'

'Fuck those little blue bastards. They look like a town of deformed fetuses that were suffocated and thrown into a mushroom patch'.

mongooseTE17 · June 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by UH DH

Yeah, but drinking and eating McDonalds doesn't give bystanders cancer.

QUERTY QUERTY QUERTY

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by the abductor
++kschhh-schhh++ Madeline, I AM your father ++kschhh-schhh++<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ding ding.. we have a winner!
Couldn't have said it better myself.

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England Goes Smoke Free

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