La Vuelta 2023: Stage 17:- Ribadesella / Ribeseya - Altu de L'Angliru 124.5Kms ***Spoilers***
Comments
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For goodness sake!wallace_and_gromit said:Just watching the GCN highlights. Is it my imagination or is Carlton morphing into the Spitting Image version of David Coleman?
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Fair, I do try and defend him often, but it helps if you get the Danish stuff - it's very different really. Also helps if you understand that were he's from in Denmark they basically get given a word limit of about 1000 words for the year, and they don't like to waste them. Deadpan and taciturn are a way of lifePross said:I know it gets Na_ta's hackles up when he is criticised but Jonas really doesn't come across well in interviews.
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That was in Roche's book which I read many years ago. Probably elsewhere too.RichN95. said:
A Kelly story taken from elsewheretailwindhome said:
I haven't heard Kelly's comments yet, just watching the highlights now - but I'd take some convincing that in their shoes Kelly waits for a domestique to gift him a grand tour.
Sean Kelly, being interviewed after the ’84 Amstel Gold Race, spots his wife leaning against his Citroën AX. He interrupts the interview to tell her to get off the paintwork, to which she shrugs, “In your life the car comes first, then the bike, then me.” Instinctively, he snaps back, “You got the order wrong. The bike comes first.”0 -
This idea of rewarding Kuss for his loyalty.
He was allowed to go in the break on stage 6. He won the stage. He gained three minutes. He's had eleven days in red. He's been allowed to ride his own race. He'll probably finish on the podium.
This follows all the prize money and bonuses Roglic and Vingegaard have delivered for him by winning. And the higher profile and, as a result, higher salary those wins bring.
Teams leaders have all the pressure on them. They carry a E50m team on their shoulders. Kuss has expectations, not pressure. He has the luxury of off days. Team leaders shouldn't be expected to step aside.
They've delivered plenty for him. You can't expect them to gift him a big prize as well when they are better. And a Kuss win would forever be known as the gifted Vuelta.Twitter: @RichN954 -
There was a story in one if the Kelly biographies along the lines that he was asked about his kids following him into the pro ranks. His answer was that his family had a greyhound, bred from champions - but it didn't win races so they shot it.
(I may be misremembering or exaggerating this story for dramatic effect)“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
I think it's odd that there's no negative attention on Vin swooping in on what was to be Roglic's race“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!1
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'The fog of war'
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Fair enough I guess ...though whoever of them who wins it'll still be remembered as the gifted vueltaRichN95. said:This idea of rewarding Kuss for his loyalty.
He was allowed to go in the break on stage 6. He won the stage. He gained three minutes. He's had eleven days in red. He's been allowed to ride his own race. He'll probably finish on the podium.
This follows all the prize money and bonuses Roglic and Vingegaard have delivered for him by winning. And the higher profile and, as a result, higher salary those wins bring.
Teams leaders have all the pressure on them. They carry a E50m team on their shoulders. Kuss has expectations, not pressure. He has the luxury of off days. Team leaders shouldn't be expected to step aside.
They've delivered plenty for him. You can't expect them to gift him a big prize as well when they are better. And a Kuss win would forever be known as the gifted Vuelta.
"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm1 -
There's a lot of hardened long term viewers / fans of the sport on this forum ....yet there is still a sense of "this feels off " somehow . I guess it doesn't matter in the long run of things ."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm1
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As they said in the studio - nobody wins a grand tour without helpers. This was a stage where Kuss needed his team mates to offer up a bit of help and they attacked him.
It's not as if this race is JonasVs season target or a race he needs to save his season - it probably adds nothing to his earning power- to paraphrase Dolly Parton it looks like he's going to take it just because he can.
Its one thing to lose the biggest win of your career late in the race - to lose it because the team mates you'd been riding for for years decided to take it must take another level of getting over.
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]7 -
They didn't attack him. He couldn't hold the wheel. That's a big difference.DeVlaeminck said:As they said in the studio - nobody wins a grand tour without helpers. This was a stage where Kuss needed his team mates to offer up a bit of help and they attacked him.
It's not as if this race is JonasVs season target or a race he needs to save his season - it probably adds nothing to his earning power- to paraphrase Dolly Parton it looks like he's going to take it just because he can.
Its one thing to lose the biggest win of your career late in the race - to lose it because the team mates you'd been riding for for years decided to take it must take another level of getting over.1 -
Sorry, but Kuss was integral in them winning. In fact he has dragged Roglic back a number of times when otherwise Roglic would have lost the lead.RichN95. said:This idea of rewarding Kuss for his loyalty.
He was allowed to go in the break on stage 6. He won the stage. He gained three minutes. He's had eleven days in red. He's been allowed to ride his own race. He'll probably finish on the podium.
This follows all the prize money and bonuses Roglic and Vingegaard have delivered for him by winning. And the higher profile and, as a result, higher salary those wins bring.
Teams leaders have all the pressure on them. They carry a E50m team on their shoulders. Kuss has expectations, not pressure. He has the luxury of off days. Team leaders shouldn't be expected to step aside.
They've delivered plenty for him. You can't expect them to gift him a big prize as well when they are better. And a Kuss win would forever be known as the gifted Vuelta.
Shaft your team mates at your peril.3 -
I guess this is the drawback of being all lovey lovey that you have in the modern peloton.mididoctors said:There's a lot of hardened long term viewers / fans of the sport on this forum ....yet there is still a sense of "this feels off " somehow . I guess it doesn't matter in the long run of things .
There’s a clear hierarchy and doing all this “oh we’re happy for him” muddies the water.
A baller move would be Vingers saying from the off “it’s great he’s keeping it warm for me and I hope we can get as many of us on the podium”0 -
That would use too many of his thousand words for this year.rick_chasey said:
I guess this is the drawback of being all lovey lovey that you have in the modern peloton.mididoctors said:There's a lot of hardened long term viewers / fans of the sport on this forum ....yet there is still a sense of "this feels off " somehow . I guess it doesn't matter in the long run of things .
There’s a clear hierarchy and doing all this “oh we’re happy for him” muddies the water.
A baller move would be Vingers saying from the off “it’s great he’s keeping it warm for me and I hope we can get as many of us on the podium”2 -
From the start of the season it was on the calendar for both Roglic and Vingegaard. It was just announced quite late (during the Tour) for Vingegaard. This has always been a race they were going to field joint leaders in. I think this has probably been critical in understanding how they've both approached this race. They've got pretty strict ground rules about what's permissible and what isn't, they check it with the team, but they're racing each other, always have been. Kuss is thrown into that dynamic, and they've basically given him the same rules.tailwindhome said:I think it's odd that there's no negative attention on Vin swooping in on what was to be Roglic's race
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Kuss has been handsomely rewarded because of the wins that Roglic and Vingegaard have delivered, as have the rest of the Jumbo-Visma team. As @RichN95. put it so well above, their job is to win Grand Tours, and Kuss's is to help them achieve it.Dorset_Boy said:
Sorry, but Kuss was integral in them winning. In fact he has dragged Roglic back a number of times when otherwise Roglic would have lost the lead.RichN95. said:This idea of rewarding Kuss for his loyalty.
He was allowed to go in the break on stage 6. He won the stage. He gained three minutes. He's had eleven days in red. He's been allowed to ride his own race. He'll probably finish on the podium.
This follows all the prize money and bonuses Roglic and Vingegaard have delivered for him by winning. And the higher profile and, as a result, higher salary those wins bring.
Teams leaders have all the pressure on them. They carry a E50m team on their shoulders. Kuss has expectations, not pressure. He has the luxury of off days. Team leaders shouldn't be expected to step aside.
They've delivered plenty for him. You can't expect them to gift him a big prize as well when they are better. And a Kuss win would forever be known as the gifted Vuelta.
Shaft your team mates at your peril.0 -
Kuss will take the stage and couple of minutes tomorrow. Jumbo will get him in the break early with remco and a couple of stronger riders like Thomas, Soler and Jumbo will trust Kuss to take the stage and who else is gonna bother chasing if doesn't affect there place on GC when bringing it back just gifts stage to Vestergaard or Roglic. Break probably get lead up to near double figure minutes before teams start to ride to protect there top 10 place.0
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OK. This is new information to meNo_Ta_Doctor said:
From the start of the season it was on the calendar for both Roglic and Vingegaard. It was just announced quite late (during the Tour) for Vingegaard. This has always been a race they were going to field joint leaders in.tailwindhome said:I think it's odd that there's no negative attention on Vin swooping in on what was to be Roglic's race
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Not really is it - they put the hammer down and shed Landa and then Kuss - its just a sustained attack.andyp said:
They didn't attack him. He couldn't hold the wheel. That's a big difference.DeVlaeminck said:As they said in the studio - nobody wins a grand tour without helpers. This was a stage where Kuss needed his team mates to offer up a bit of help and they attacked him.
It's not as if this race is JonasVs season target or a race he needs to save his season - it probably adds nothing to his earning power- to paraphrase Dolly Parton it looks like he's going to take it just because he can.
Its one thing to lose the biggest win of your career late in the race - to lose it because the team mates you'd been riding for for years decided to take it must take another level of getting over.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]1 -
If Kuss is encouraged to get into the break he should view it as a trap.stevepage20 said:Kuss will take the stage and couple of minutes tomorrow. Jumbo will get him in the break early with remco and a couple of stronger riders like Thomas, Soler and Jumbo will trust Kuss to take the stage and who else is gonna bother chasing if doesn't affect there place on GC when bringing it back just gifts stage to Vestergaard or Roglic. Break probably get lead up to near double figure minutes before teams start to ride to protect there top 10 place.
Jumbo will ride the whole peloton off their wheel, get a lead of ten minutes and then play spoof for the win at the finish line.
Twitter: @RichN950 -
Kuss will be allowed in the break will he then?stevepage20 said:Kuss will take the stage and couple of minutes tomorrow. Jumbo will get him in the break early with remco and a couple of stronger riders like Thomas, Soler and Jumbo will trust Kuss to take the stage and who else is gonna bother chasing if doesn't affect there place on GC when bringing it back just gifts stage to Vestergaard or Roglic. Break probably get lead up to near double figure minutes before teams start to ride to protect there top 10 place.
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Source? IIRC most were quite surprised when it was announced that Vingegaard was riding the Vuelta.No_Ta_Doctor said:
From the start of the season it was on the calendar for both Roglic and Vingegaard.tailwindhome said:I think it's odd that there's no negative attention on Vin swooping in on what was to be Roglic's race
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Like the gifted tour?RichN95. said:This idea of rewarding Kuss for his loyalty.
He was allowed to go in the break on stage 6. He won the stage. He gained three minutes. He's had eleven days in red. He's been allowed to ride his own race. He'll probably finish on the podium.
This follows all the prize money and bonuses Roglic and Vingegaard have delivered for him by winning. And the higher profile and, as a result, higher salary those wins bring.
Teams leaders have all the pressure on them. They carry a E50m team on their shoulders. Kuss has expectations, not pressure. He has the luxury of off days. Team leaders shouldn't be expected to step aside.
They've delivered plenty for him. You can't expect them to gift him a big prize as well when they are better. And a Kuss win would forever be known as the gifted Vuelta.0 -
I was on the climb between 7 and 6km to go, a couple of hundred meters below the cloud line where there was a big patch of grass where lots of people were sitting - I'm almost certainly in the footage but not checked yet. The signal was very poor so couldn't get on the forum or more importantly GCN to see the race.
It was really good, great atmosphere, and much busier than naysayers like Rick I think it was had me believe. We couldn't get parked at all and in the end I left the car in a ditch up a farm track nearly a kilometre out of Vega, then nearly binned it into another ditch getting out.
Walking back down was fun too as all the riders rode back down past us. Good day out. Some little kid in front of us got loads of stuff off the riders, I'm definitely bringing my nephews next time and waving them at the riders 😆
Have some good photos and videos but I need to sort them out.5 -
stevepage20 said:
Kuss will take the stage and couple of minutes tomorrow. Jumbo will get him in the break early with remco and a couple of stronger riders like Thomas, Soler and Jumbo will trust Kuss to take the stage and who else is gonna bother chasing if doesn't affect there place on GC when bringing it back just gifts stage to Vestergaard or Roglic. Break probably get lead up to near double figure minutes before teams start to ride to protect there top 10 place.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.1 -
Everyone was surprised, but it's what Jumbo said. It bears out too, it would be pretty nuts to suddenly decide to race the Vuelta with no planning in the middle of a Tour you were still trying to win.r0bh said:
Source? IIRC most were quite surprised when it was announced that Vingegaard was riding the Vuelta.No_Ta_Doctor said:
From the start of the season it was on the calendar for both Roglic and Vingegaard.tailwindhome said:I think it's odd that there's no negative attention on Vin swooping in on what was to be Roglic's race
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You are Carlton Kirby and I claim my five pound prize.stevepage20 said:Kuss will take the stage and couple of minutes tomorrow. Jumbo will get him in the break early with remco and a couple of stronger riders like Thomas, Soler and Jumbo will trust Kuss to take the stage and who else is gonna bother chasing if doesn't affect there place on GC when bringing it back just gifts stage to Vestergaard or Roglic. Break probably get lead up to near double figure minutes before teams start to ride to protect there top 10 place.
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Totally agree.RichN95. said:This idea of rewarding Kuss for his loyalty.
He was allowed to go in the break on stage 6. He won the stage. He gained three minutes. He's had eleven days in red. He's been allowed to ride his own race. He'll probably finish on the podium.
This follows all the prize money and bonuses Roglic and Vingegaard have delivered for him by winning. And the higher profile and, as a result, higher salary those wins bring.
Teams leaders have all the pressure on them. They carry a E50m team on their shoulders. Kuss has expectations, not pressure. He has the luxury of off days. Team leaders shouldn't be expected to step aside.
They've delivered plenty for him. You can't expect them to gift him a big prize as well when they are better. And a Kuss win would forever be known as the gifted Vuelta.
Van Nicholas Ventus
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Loving the view of Thomas being one of the stronger riders!stevepage20 said:Kuss will take the stage and couple of minutes tomorrow. Jumbo will get him in the break early with remco and a couple of stronger riders like Thomas, Soler and Jumbo will trust Kuss to take the stage and who else is gonna bother chasing if doesn't affect there place on GC when bringing it back just gifts stage to Vestergaard or Roglic. Break probably get lead up to near double figure minutes before teams start to ride to protect there top 10 place.
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No. Only mentioned one potential stage winner.mrb123 said:
You are Carlton Kirby and I claim my five pound prize.stevepage20 said:Kuss will take the stage and couple of minutes tomorrow. Jumbo will get him in the break early with remco and a couple of stronger riders like Thomas, Soler and Jumbo will trust Kuss to take the stage and who else is gonna bother chasing if doesn't affect there place on GC when bringing it back just gifts stage to Vestergaard or Roglic. Break probably get lead up to near double figure minutes before teams start to ride to protect there top 10 place.
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