La Vuelta 2023: Stage 17:- Ribadesella / Ribeseya - Altu de L'Angliru 124.5Kms ***Spoilers***

exlaser

kingstongraham said:

At least one of them should have stayed with their team leader.

But he isn’t their TEAM leader is he ?
Just because your leading a race doesn’t make you a team leader .

hanshotfirst

exlaser said:

kingstongraham said:

At least one of them should have stayed with their team leader.

But he isn’t their TEAM leader is he ?
Just because your leading a race doesn’t make you a team leader .

Feel like you should when they're capable of winning it. Not like he's a sprinter who's taken the jersey in the first week is he?

Pross

exlaser said:

kingstongraham said:

At least one of them should have stayed with their team leader.

But he isn’t their TEAM leader is he ?
Just because your leading a race doesn’t make you a team leader .

It's not like anyone from outside the team is going to challenge them though and he did have a comfortable lead.

hypster

Pross said:

hypster said:

stage_hunter said:

Pross said:

Dorset_Boy said:

Pretty defeatist interview from Sepp - almost an I've been told my place.....

I think it came across as him trying to stay on message whilst making a point e.g. 'I'll work for them like I always do' or something to that effect and mentioning how he'd like a chance for himself. He seems to just lack the killer instinct.

I think it showed the first sign of belief that he can win a GT. Even if he doesnt win this one.

I don' know how you come to that conclusion. Doesn't stand a chance in another GT unless Vinegegaard, Roglic, Pogacar and Evanapoel are not in it. This is his only hope and if JV don't support him to win then they are a heartless shambles.

Hmm, not sure he belongs in the list to be honest.

Hmm, I seem to remember him doing quite well in this race last year.

tailwindhome

People (on twitter) are being very weird about all this

pblakeney

hypster said:

Pross said:

hypster said:

stage_hunter said:

Pross said:

Dorset_Boy said:

Pretty defeatist interview from Sepp - almost an I've been told my place.....

I think it came across as him trying to stay on message whilst making a point e.g. 'I'll work for them like I always do' or something to that effect and mentioning how he'd like a chance for himself. He seems to just lack the killer instinct.

I think it showed the first sign of belief that he can win a GT. Even if he doesnt win this one.

I don' know how you come to that conclusion. Doesn't stand a chance in another GT unless Vinegegaard, Roglic, Pogacar and Evanapoel are not in it. This is his only hope and if JV don't support him to win then they are a heartless shambles.

Hmm, not sure he belongs in the list to be honest.

Hmm, I seem to remember him doing quite well in this race last year.

Entirely depends on the opposition and their form/condition/crashes.
He threw in the towel fairly quickly in this version.

commuterlegs

Can't wait for the next season of Ant & Dec's Saturday Night Takeaway when it turns out they're behind all this.

MidlandsGrimpeur2

I am pretty old school, if a guy gets the leader's jersey and then consolidates his position over several days, he is the leader and the rest of the team rides in service of him, regardless of who they are.

Unless Kuss cracks and can no longer win, Roglic and Vingegaard should ride for him and management should make that clear.

As if Vingegaard at the Tour would accept any of his team mates doing anything other than sacrifice themselves completely in service to his winning.

kingstongraham

exlaser said:

kingstongraham said:

At least one of them should have stayed with their team leader.

But he isn’t their TEAM leader is he ?
Just because your leading a race doesn’t make you a team leader .

It's not like he's Ganna who's just won the opening TT, is it?

pblakeney

I wonder if the "nice guy" persona is being overplayed.
He made up a lot of ground when threatened.

thegreatdivide

MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:

I am pretty old school, if a guy gets the leader's jersey and then consolidates his position over several days, he is the leader and the rest of the team rides in service of him, regardless of who they are.

Unless Kuss cracks and can no longer win, Roglic and Vingegaard should ride for him and management should make that clear.

As if Vingegaard at the Tour would accept any of his team mates doing anything other than sacrifice themselves completely in service to his winning.

Exactly this. There are no excuses. None at all.

DeadCalm

thegreatdivide said:

MidlandsGrimpeur2 said:

I am pretty old school, if a guy gets the leader's jersey and then consolidates his position over several days, he is the leader and the rest of the team rides in service of him, regardless of who they are.

Unless Kuss cracks and can no longer win, Roglic and Vingegaard should ride for him and management should make that clear.

As if Vingegaard at the Tour would accept any of his team mates doing anything other than sacrifice themselves completely in service to his winning.

Exactly this. There are no excuses. None at all.

I suspect that very soon the vitriol directed at Vingegaard will dwarf that aimed at Froome at the peak of Froome's unpopularity.

rick_chasey

tailwindhome said:

People (on twitter) are being very weird about all this

Americans, no?

andyp

Roglic and Vingegaard are paid to win Grand Tours.

pblakeney

andyp said:

Roglic and Vingegaard are paid to win Grand Tours.

They need help to do this though.
Sometimes it's good to throw the dog a bone.

Dorset_Boy

andyp said:

Roglic and Vingegaard are paid to win Grand Tours.

And how many would they each have won without Kuss, or their team mates?

TheBigBean

andyp said:

Roglic and Vingegaard are paid to win Grand Tours.

Does it matter to the sponsors which rider wins?

Pross

hypster said:

Pross said:

hypster said:

stage_hunter said:

Pross said:

Dorset_Boy said:

Pretty defeatist interview from Sepp - almost an I've been told my place.....

I think it came across as him trying to stay on message whilst making a point e.g. 'I'll work for them like I always do' or something to that effect and mentioning how he'd like a chance for himself. He seems to just lack the killer instinct.

I think it showed the first sign of belief that he can win a GT. Even if he doesnt win this one.

I don' know how you come to that conclusion. Doesn't stand a chance in another GT unless Vinegegaard, Roglic, Pogacar and Evanapoel are not in it. This is his only hope and if JV don't support him to win then they are a heartless shambles.

Hmm, not sure he belongs in the list to be honest.

Hmm, I seem to remember him doing quite well in this race last year.

Jai Hindley won the Giro last year but I wouldn’t have him on the list either.

Pross

TheBigBean said:

andyp said:

Roglic and Vingegaard are paid to win Grand Tours.

Does it matter to the sponsors which rider wins?

I reckon winning with 3 different riders plus taking the top 3 overall (in addition to two stage 1,2,3 finishes) trumps a double GT win for one of the others publicity wise. If they had an American sponsor it would be a no brainer.

thegreatdivide

TheBigBean said:

andyp said:

Roglic and Vingegaard are paid to win Grand Tours.

Does it matter to the sponsors which rider wins?

It’s a PR disaster for Jumbo at the moment. Social media - like it or not - counts for a hell of a lot to a sponsor. Currently todays actions are going down like a massive lead balloon.

tailwindhome

rick_chasey said:

tailwindhome said:

People (on twitter) are being very weird about all this

Americans, no?

Mostly.

Some of the newer generation of bloggers/commentators/tweeters seem very emotional about the whole thing - I think it's what the kids call 'being extra'

thegreatdivide

tailwindhome said:

rick_chasey said:

tailwindhome said:

People (on twitter) are being very weird about all this

Americans, no?

Mostly.

Some of the newer generation of bloggers/commentators/tweeters seem very emotional about the whole thing - I think it's what the kids call 'being extra'

Aye that new Irish guy Kelly is out his depth in dissing Rog and JV. Noob.

TheBigBean

thegreatdivide said:

TheBigBean said:

andyp said:

Roglic and Vingegaard are paid to win Grand Tours.

Does it matter to the sponsors which rider wins?

It’s a PR disaster for Jumbo at the moment. Social media - like it or not - counts for a hell of a lot to a sponsor. Currently todays actions are going down like a massive lead balloon.

They have chance to change strategy tomorrow.

mididoctors

Jonas struggled in the first week and kuss and roglic held back to carry him .... who's been gifted ?

tailwindhome

thegreatdivide said:

tailwindhome said:

rick_chasey said:

tailwindhome said:

People (on twitter) are being very weird about all this

Americans, no?

Mostly.

Some of the newer generation of bloggers/commentators/tweeters seem very emotional about the whole thing - I think it's what the kids call 'being extra'

Aye that new Irish guy Kelly is out his depth in dissing Rog and JV. Noob.

Not everyone whose opinion i disagree with fits into the category I've described.

I haven't heard Kelly's comments yet, just watching the highlights now - but I'd take some convincing that in their shoes Kelly waits for a domestique to gift him a grand tour.

focuszing723

TheBigBean

tailwindhome said:

thegreatdivide said:

tailwindhome said:

rick_chasey said:

tailwindhome said:

People (on twitter) are being very weird about all this

Americans, no?

Mostly.

Some of the newer generation of bloggers/commentators/tweeters seem very emotional about the whole thing - I think it's what the kids call 'being extra'

Aye that new Irish guy Kelly is out his depth in dissing Rog and JV. Noob.

Not everyone whose opinion i disagree with fits into the category I've described.

I haven't heard Kelly's comments yet, just watching the highlights now - but I'd take some convincing that in their shoes Kelly waits for a domestique to gift him a grand tour.

Perhaps one of the strongest views I have heard Kelly express.

wallace_and_gromit

Just watching the GCN highlights. Is it my imagination or is Carlton morphing into the Spitting Image version of David Coleman?

Pross

tailwindhome said:

thegreatdivide said:

tailwindhome said:

rick_chasey said:

tailwindhome said:

People (on twitter) are being very weird about all this

Americans, no?

Mostly.

Some of the newer generation of bloggers/commentators/tweeters seem very emotional about the whole thing - I think it's what the kids call 'being extra'

Aye that new Irish guy Kelly is out his depth in dissing Rog and JV. Noob.

Not everyone whose opinion i disagree with fits into the category I've described.

I haven't heard Kelly's comments yet, just watching the highlights now - but I'd take some convincing that in their shoes Kelly waits for a domestique to gift him a grand tour.

He was very robust in his opinion (and it seemed pretty genuine) as were Lloyd and Blythe (Blythe initially tried to give the benefit of the doubt until listening to the politicians answers given in the interviews).

RichN95.

tailwindhome said:

I haven't heard Kelly's comments yet, just watching the highlights now - but I'd take some convincing that in their shoes Kelly waits for a domestique to gift him a grand tour.

A Kelly story taken from elsewhere

Sean Kelly, being interviewed after the ’84 Amstel Gold Race, spots his wife leaning against his Citroën AX. He interrupts the interview to tell her to get off the paintwork, to which she shrugs, “In your life the car comes first, then the bike, then me.” Instinctively, he snaps back, “You got the order wrong. The bike comes first.”