The Big 'Let's sell our cars and take buses/ebikes instead' thread (warning: probably very dull)

briantrumpet

kingstongraham said:

rjsterry said:

My business is in the city. The schools are better in the city. All the things I need are nearby in the city and easy to get to.

Live in the country and drive in. Win win.

Especially if he's got a 20yo Almera.

Stevo_666

briantrumpet said:

kingstongraham said:

rjsterry said:

My business is in the city. The schools are better in the city. All the things I need are nearby in the city and easy to get to.

Live in the country and drive in. Win win.

Especially if he's got a 20yo Almera.

'Architect star in a reasonably priced car' ?

rjsterry

kingstongraham said:

rjsterry said:

My business is in the city. The schools are better in the city. All the things I need are nearby in the city and easy to get to.

Live in the country and drive in. Win win.

Then things are not nearby, are they. The schools are less than 10 minutes walk from the front door. To drive in from where I live now would take 3-4 hours a day. Considerably longer if I moved out past the M25. I don't think even Stevo enjoys sitting in queued traffic.

And I don't drive, nor can I run to a chauffeur.

briantrumpet

rjsterry said:

kingstongraham said:

rjsterry said:

My business is in the city. The schools are better in the city. All the things I need are nearby in the city and easy to get to.

Live in the country and drive in. Win win.

Only if I really enjoyed sitting in traffic for four hours a day. And I don't drive.

What, you've got a chauffeur?

kingstongraham

rjsterry said:

kingstongraham said:

rjsterry said:

My business is in the city. The schools are better in the city. All the things I need are nearby in the city and easy to get to.

Live in the country and drive in. Win win.

Then things are not nearby, are they. The schools are less than 10 minutes walk from the front door. To drive in from where I live now would take 3-4 hours a day. Considerably longer if I moved out past the M25. I don't think even Stevo enjoys sitting in queued traffic.

And I don't drive, nor can I run to a chauffeur.

You don't need to run to him, get him to bring the car to you.

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

kingstongraham said:

rjsterry said:

My business is in the city. The schools are better in the city. All the things I need are nearby in the city and easy to get to.

Live in the country and drive in. Win win.

Then things are not nearby, are they. The schools are less than 10 minutes walk from the front door. To drive in from where I live now would take 3-4 hours a day. Considerably longer if I moved out past the M25. I don't think even Stevo enjoys sitting in queued traffic.

And I don't drive, nor can I run to a chauffeur.

Convenient, yes but with drawbacks. We waited a bit too long (for me) for the same reasons that we assumed it was all much more convenient in the 'burbs. Not really as we're really not far from the main amenities. For example schools within walking distance, supermarket 5 mins by car or walkable. And 2 pubs within 300m, which is an improvement for me Plus the usual benefits like more space, peace 'n' quiet, less crime, nice views, good cycling routes etc.

I can get a fast train into town, but usually drive half way (15 miles in 30 mins) then get on my bike or catch a suburban train. Easy peasy.

Clearly when you're a bit older then proximity to schools and the City won't be a priority so then you're arguing based on the fact that Sainsbury's might be a bit closer.

We moved in late '21 and I have never regretted it. I would not go back to the 'burbs. Maybe in a few years for you?

rjsterry

Glad it suits you, but I am not going to stop needing to get into the office for at least another 20 years. Maybe longer. Much as we managed to adapt to home working it eventually drove me up the wall and I'm much happier working in town. As for the other stuff we already have more space than we need; it is quiet with low crime; and the Surrey Hills/North Downs are about 40 minutes ride away. I have nothing to escape from.

Clean air is just something everyone should have.

wavefront

rjsterry said:

Glad it suits you, but I am not going to stop needing to get into the office for at least another 20 years. Maybe longer. Much as we managed to adapt to home working it eventually drove me up the wall and I'm much happier working in town. As for the other stuff we already have more space than we need; it is quiet with low crime; and the Surrey Hills/North Downs are about 40 minutes ride away. I have nothing to escape from.

Clean air is just something everyone should have.

This isn’t a dig, but I genuinely don’t get the obsession with cities. It seems crazy to move to a city or the fringes of a city because of the perceived convenience - whether it’s better schools, closer to the shops, wider job prospects etc. From my experience, before my epiphany, it meant 3hrs + commuting despite being ‘convenient’. It meant you spent all your income of of your better paid job but spent it all on expensive living - and created a vicious circle you couldn’t then afford to get out of. The kids still didn’t walk to school and then school runs then contributed to car chaos. And then for those who didn’t need a car, wanted a car for the weekends to escape the city.

As I said, not a dig as it obviously works for many, but given that only 6% of UK is actually built on, i find it crazy people want to live in and flock to densely populated cities, and then spend all of our time trying to make them ‘nicer’ places to be.

MattFalle

don't like cities. don't really like people. like looking at green things and not buildings.

countryside for me.

pblakeney

Cities are great when you are young, free and single.
Less so when settled down with a family and/or older. IMO.

rjsterry

MattFalle said:

don't like cities. don't really like people. like looking at green things and not buildings.

countryside for me.

For obvious reasons I quite like buildings but am equally happy wandering around in the countryside. I don't see it as an either/or thing. There's also plenty of greenery in town if you need a fix.

briantrumpet

I don't like cities, though like being near enough a small city/town for the facilites there. Topsham is as nice as it gets in many ways, and with just a four-mile cycle commute, and almost immediate access to open countryside, I get the best of both worlds. That said, my heart really years for the French house and the mountains, though that again has easy access to a town with as many facilities as I want... though it's probably just as well I don't yearn for a lively nightlife.

Half a day in a big city is plenty enough for me, however impressive it is.

pangolin

wavefront said:

rjsterry said:

Glad it suits you, but I am not going to stop needing to get into the office for at least another 20 years. Maybe longer. Much as we managed to adapt to home working it eventually drove me up the wall and I'm much happier working in town. As for the other stuff we already have more space than we need; it is quiet with low crime; and the Surrey Hills/North Downs are about 40 minutes ride away. I have nothing to escape from.

Clean air is just something everyone should have.

This isn’t a dig, but I genuinely don’t get the obsession with cities. It seems crazy to move to a city or the fringes of a city because of the perceived convenience - whether it’s better schools, closer to the shops, wider job prospects etc. From my experience, before my epiphany, it meant 3hrs + commuting despite being ‘convenient’. It meant you spent all your income of of your better paid job but spent it all on expensive living - and created a vicious circle you couldn’t then afford to get out of. The kids still didn’t walk to school and then school runs then contributed to car chaos. And then for those who didn’t need a car, wanted a car for the weekends to escape the city.

As I said, not a dig as it obviously works for many, but given that only 6% of UK is actually built on, i find it crazy people want to live in and flock to densely populated cities, and then spend all of our time trying to make them ‘nicer’ places to be.

3hrs is quite specific to not many cities in this country though (maybe only 1). I used to spend between 2 and 3hrs round trip in London, depending on where in town the office was. In Bristol it's under 25 mins each way.

MattFalle

briantrumpet said:

rick_chasey said:

Anyone know the story behind the Britishvolt collapse?

Sounds like it might have been built on sand:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britishvolt

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jan/17/britishvolt-expected-enter-administration-tuesday

MattFalle

rick_chasey said:

I'll let you know when I get the bike rack for the car.

oh.

so no bus/train/walk/delivery combo.

First.Aspect

MattFalle said:

rick_chasey said:

I'll let you know when I get the bike rack for the car.

oh.

so no bus/train/walk/delivery combo.

Car journeys are acceptable where the RC convenience factor applies. It all comes down to the direction of travel in relation to a line between Château Chasey and Ricktopolis.

There is probably a graph that would help illustrate it.

rick_chasey

First.Aspect said:

MattFalle said:

rick_chasey said:

I'll let you know when I get the bike rack for the car.

oh.

so no bus/train/walk/delivery combo.

Car journeys are acceptable where the RC convenience factor applies. It all comes down to the direction of travel in relation to a line between Château Chasey and Ricktopolis.

There is probably a graph that would help illustrate it.

This is why I end up repeating myself.

We currently have a car centric system. So obviously, you need a car.

The entire system needs to change for a car to no longer be the best way to get around.

Hate the game, not the player.

First.Aspect

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

MattFalle said:

rick_chasey said:

I'll let you know when I get the bike rack for the car.

oh.

so no bus/train/walk/delivery combo.

Car journeys are acceptable where the RC convenience factor applies. It all comes down to the direction of travel in relation to a line between Château Chasey and Ricktopolis.

There is probably a graph that would help illustrate it.

This is why I end up repeating myself.

We currently have a car centric system. So obviously, you need a car.

The entire system needs to change for a car to no longer be the best way to get around.

Hate the game, not the player.

Lead by example, surely?

rick_chasey

Eh? It's a problem with the policy and the entire system?

Maybe this is my dylsexic brain only thinking in systems, but individuals making changes on how they travel is not how the change works.

The policies and the focus on the entire system will inevitably change.

I'd only be able to lead anything if I was either in government or part of the policy decision making process on transport. I don't think my internship at the local council transport department when I was 15 counts.

It's like complaining about having to use TT bars in a time trial. You may not like them, but you're not gonna win if you don't use them, so you use them. Not using them won't change the rules, you'll just be slower. To make the change, the rulez need to change. Right? Hate the rulez, not the riders using the TT bars.

First.Aspect

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

MattFalle said:

rick_chasey said:

I'll let you know when I get the bike rack for the car.

oh.

so no bus/train/walk/delivery combo.

Car journeys are acceptable where the RC convenience factor applies. It all comes down to the direction of travel in relation to a line between Château Chasey and Ricktopolis.

There is probably a graph that would help illustrate it.

This is why I end up repeating myself.

We currently have a car centric system. So obviously, you need a car.

The entire system needs to change for a car to no longer be the best way to get around.

Hate the game, not the player.

Lead by example, surely?

Besides, will there ever be a demand or an environmental justification for direct public transport from Cambridge to rural North Yorkshire? For all the other RCs put there, this would quickly add up the a bus route for every current car journey.

If not, because that's clearly demented, what is stopping you from taking the super fast train to London then the super fast East Coast mainline train to the railway city of York, then cycling the rest of the way?

You see, for that particular purpose, Rictopia already exists, yet you still don't want to use it.

rick_chasey

First.Aspect said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

MattFalle said:

rick_chasey said:

I'll let you know when I get the bike rack for the car.

oh.

so no bus/train/walk/delivery combo.

Car journeys are acceptable where the RC convenience factor applies. It all comes down to the direction of travel in relation to a line between Château Chasey and Ricktopolis.

There is probably a graph that would help illustrate it.

This is why I end up repeating myself.

We currently have a car centric system. So obviously, you need a car.

The entire system needs to change for a car to no longer be the best way to get around.

Hate the game, not the player.

Lead by example, surely?

Besides, will there ever be a demand or an environmental justification for direct public transport from Cambridge to rural North Yorkshire? For all the other RCs put there, this would quickly add up the a bus route for every current car journey.

If not, because that's clearly demented, what is stopping you from taking the super fast train to London then the super fast East Coast mainline train to the railway city of York, then cycling the rest of the way?

You see, for that particular purpose, Rictopia already exists, yet you still don't want to use it.

Price, largely. Plus travelling via train at the weekend is nigh on impossible with engineering works.

When I lived in London I did use the train and it was fine.

Pross

Whilst I think Rick's utopian view is unrealistic and naive even I can understand what he is saying here. The biggest issue is how we ever get from the current state of public transport and sustainable transport infrastructure to a point where the use of private cars becomes the exception rather than the rule. As long as the car lobby remains strong and fight against anything being taken from 'their' infrastructure to benefit a progressive integrated transport strategy and until someone decides undertaking the work that would be needed is an investment not just spending then using public transport for all journeys isn't realistic. Rick has been pretty consistent in explaining that his vision is based on those things happening and not on how things are at present but people keep choosing to ignore that.

First.Aspect

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

MattFalle said:

rick_chasey said:

I'll let you know when I get the bike rack for the car.

oh.

so no bus/train/walk/delivery combo.

Car journeys are acceptable where the RC convenience factor applies. It all comes down to the direction of travel in relation to a line between Château Chasey and Ricktopolis.

There is probably a graph that would help illustrate it.

This is why I end up repeating myself.

We currently have a car centric system. So obviously, you need a car.

The entire system needs to change for a car to no longer be the best way to get around.

Hate the game, not the player.

Lead by example, surely?

Besides, will there ever be a demand or an environmental justification for direct public transport from Cambridge to rural North Yorkshire? For all the other RCs put there, this would quickly add up the a bus route for every current car journey.

If not, because that's clearly demented, what is stopping you from taking the super fast train to London then the super fast East Coast mainline train to the railway city of York, then cycling the rest of the way?

You see, for that particular purpose, Rictopia already exists, yet you still don't want to use it.

Price, largely. Plus travelling via train at the weekend is nigh on impossible with engineering works.

When I lived in London I did use the train and it was fine.

Is it worth pointing out that proportionally, what is currently expensive for you will still be expensive for an average earner when it's cheap for you?

kingstongraham

Will there be roads suitable for riding bikes on (outside towns) when cars aren't in charge?

rick_chasey

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

MattFalle said:

rick_chasey said:

I'll let you know when I get the bike rack for the car.

oh.

so no bus/train/walk/delivery combo.

Car journeys are acceptable where the RC convenience factor applies. It all comes down to the direction of travel in relation to a line between Château Chasey and Ricktopolis.

There is probably a graph that would help illustrate it.

This is why I end up repeating myself.

We currently have a car centric system. So obviously, you need a car.

The entire system needs to change for a car to no longer be the best way to get around.

Hate the game, not the player.

Lead by example, surely?

Besides, will there ever be a demand or an environmental justification for direct public transport from Cambridge to rural North Yorkshire? For all the other RCs put there, this would quickly add up the a bus route for every current car journey.

If not, because that's clearly demented, what is stopping you from taking the super fast train to London then the super fast East Coast mainline train to the railway city of York, then cycling the rest of the way?

You see, for that particular purpose, Rictopia already exists, yet you still don't want to use it.

Price, largely. Plus travelling via train at the weekend is nigh on impossible with engineering works.

When I lived in London I did use the train and it was fine.

Is it worth pointing out that proportionally, what is currently expensive for you will still be expensive for an average earner when it's cheap for you?

£160 for a train journey that I can do for £35 in petrol is quite a big gap. Would probably be more if you add on the taxi at the other end, as they recently closed the bus service to where I need to go.

Given the frequency with which I do the journey, that quickly covers the gap of running the car, let alone all the other journeys I have to do because there are no alternatives.

MattFalle

First.Aspect said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

MattFalle said:

rick_chasey said:

I'll let you know when I get the bike rack for the car.

oh.

so no bus/train/walk/delivery combo.

Car journeys are acceptable where the RC convenience factor applies. It all comes down to the direction of travel in relation to a line between Château Chasey and Ricktopolis.

There is probably a graph that would help illustrate it.

This is why I end up repeating myself.

We currently have a car centric system. So obviously, you need a car.

The entire system needs to change for a car to no longer be the best way to get around.

Hate the game, not the player.

Lead by example, surely?

Besides, will there ever be a demand or an environmental justification for direct public transport from Cambridge to rural North Yorkshire? For all the other RCs put there, this would quickly add up the a bus route for every current car journey.

If not, because that's clearly demented, what is stopping you from taking the super fast train to London then the super fast East Coast mainline train to the railway city of York, then cycling the rest of the way?

You see, for that particular purpose, Rictopia already exists, yet you still don't want to use it.

of course he doesn't - it might inconvenience him and inconvenience is only for plebs who don't live in London.

Change comes from people changing but Chasey doesn't want to change.

rick_chasey

https://twitter.com/bbcnickrobinson/status/1615658769161101312?s=20&t=clW_6Wtbf-ejy5_GDkzBag

Pross

The problem with trying to get to Rick's vision is that it is like trying to completely renovate a house whilst still living in it. In an ideal world everyone would move out and the existing building would be demolished (or at least knocked apart internally) then rebuilt to suit the intended use. In reality we are more like that Claridge's extension in the recent documentary and needing to try to do it all without disturbing anyone using the existing building. If we were planning a country for the modern world we would knock everything down and come up with something that looks quite a bit different.

rjsterry

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

MattFalle said:

rick_chasey said:

I'll let you know when I get the bike rack for the car.

oh.

so no bus/train/walk/delivery combo.

Car journeys are acceptable where the RC convenience factor applies. It all comes down to the direction of travel in relation to a line between Château Chasey and Ricktopolis.

There is probably a graph that would help illustrate it.

This is why I end up repeating myself.

We currently have a car centric system. So obviously, you need a car.

The entire system needs to change for a car to no longer be the best way to get around.

Hate the game, not the player.

Lead by example, surely?

Besides, will there ever be a demand or an environmental justification for direct public transport from Cambridge to rural North Yorkshire? For all the other RCs put there, this would quickly add up the a bus route for every current car journey.

If not, because that's clearly demented, what is stopping you from taking the super fast train to London then the super fast East Coast mainline train to the railway city of York, then cycling the rest of the way?

You see, for that particular purpose, Rictopia already exists, yet you still don't want to use it.

Price, largely. Plus travelling via train at the weekend is nigh on impossible with engineering works.

When I lived in London I did use the train and it was fine.

As someone who doesn't drive and doesn't have a roof rack, I've managed to take my bike up to Derby for a weekend cycling with my brother. I've also taken my bike down to East Devon by cycling to Woking, catching the train there down to Crewkerne and cycling the rest of the way. All during weekends, although not post-covid collapse of service.

rick_chasey

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

MattFalle said:

rick_chasey said:

I'll let you know when I get the bike rack for the car.

oh.

so no bus/train/walk/delivery combo.

Car journeys are acceptable where the RC convenience factor applies. It all comes down to the direction of travel in relation to a line between Château Chasey and Ricktopolis.

There is probably a graph that would help illustrate it.

This is why I end up repeating myself.

We currently have a car centric system. So obviously, you need a car.

The entire system needs to change for a car to no longer be the best way to get around.

Hate the game, not the player.

Lead by example, surely?

Besides, will there ever be a demand or an environmental justification for direct public transport from Cambridge to rural North Yorkshire? For all the other RCs put there, this would quickly add up the a bus route for every current car journey.

If not, because that's clearly demented, what is stopping you from taking the super fast train to London then the super fast East Coast mainline train to the railway city of York, then cycling the rest of the way?

You see, for that particular purpose, Rictopia already exists, yet you still don't want to use it.

Price, largely. Plus travelling via train at the weekend is nigh on impossible with engineering works.

When I lived in London I did use the train and it was fine.

As someone who doesn't drive and doesn't have a roof rack, I've managed to take my bike up to Derby for a weekend cycling with my brother. I've also taken my bike down to East Devon by cycling to Woking, catching the train there down to Crewkerne and cycling the rest of the way. All during weekends, although not post-covid collapse of service.

Sure, it's doable. Never said it wasn't. But at 4x the price and the likelihood of delays, plus about a 1 in 5 chance I can't get to the east coat main line without taking a rail replacement bus, I'm not gonna rush to do it.