The Big 'Let's sell our cars and take buses/ebikes instead' thread (warning: probably very dull)
Comments
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TheBigBean said:
I'd love to vote the bus slayer out of office, but sadly it's not going to happen.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
That shows the impact Livingstone had. The current bus slayer is undoing his work.rick_chasey said:
This includes more recent data, and doesn't undermine your thesis.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/300850/number-of-bus-passenger-journeys-in-london-in-the-united-kingdom/
Genuinely interested in the politics going on, as I've got no knowledge or skin in the game... so what's Khan up to with the buses then, and why? I'd have thought it would have been a vote winner to expand their use.0 -
As a regular London bus user I can't say I have noticed a difference. I have noticed the significant reduction in trains on Southern. Khan has been pretty underwhelming but nobody else seems to be even trying to replace him.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Part of his election campaign was a promise to not increase tube fares in some way. As a result, he was short of money and needed to cut things as well as put up prices such as bus fares that he hadn't promised to fix. Outside zone 1, bus fares became comparable to tube fares whereas under Livingstone they were probably half.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
I'd love to vote the bus slayer out of office, but sadly it's not going to happen.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
That shows the impact Livingstone had. The current bus slayer is undoing his work.rick_chasey said:
This includes more recent data, and doesn't undermine your thesis.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/300850/number-of-bus-passenger-journeys-in-london-in-the-united-kingdom/
Genuinely interested in the politics going on, as I've got no knowledge or skin in the game... so what's Khan up to with the buses then, and why? I'd have thought it would have been a vote winner to expand their use.
Bus passenger numbers had already started to decrease. Instead of looking at why and finding reasons such as increased journey times due to cross rail road works, more ubers and more electric cars, he decided it was because of changing habits, so decided to slay some buses.
He also looked at some buses and concluded they weren't as busy at the start and end of their journey (who would jave thought) so slayed a few stops meaning they are used even less.
He has taken the complete opposite approach to Livingstone who battled all the obstacles to taking buses (such as no one knowing which bus went where from where).
I'm fairly sure Livingstone would have clamped down on the numbers of private hire cars.0 -
Also bus fares are now capped across the country at £2 which is pretty good value and makes the differential with London much less.0
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TheBigBean said:
Part of his election campaign was a promise to not increase tube fares in some way. As a result, he was short of money and needed to cut things as well as put up prices such as bus fares that he hadn't promised to fix. Outside zone 1, bus fares became comparable to tube fares whereas under Livingstone they were probably half.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
I'd love to vote the bus slayer out of office, but sadly it's not going to happen.briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
That shows the impact Livingstone had. The current bus slayer is undoing his work.rick_chasey said:
This includes more recent data, and doesn't undermine your thesis.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/300850/number-of-bus-passenger-journeys-in-london-in-the-united-kingdom/
Genuinely interested in the politics going on, as I've got no knowledge or skin in the game... so what's Khan up to with the buses then, and why? I'd have thought it would have been a vote winner to expand their use.
Bus passenger numbers had already started to decrease. Instead of looking at why and finding reasons such as increased journey times due to cross rail road works, more ubers and more electric cars, he decided it was because of changing habits, so decided to slay some buses.
He also looked at some buses and concluded they weren't as busy at the start and end of their journey (who would jave thought) so slayed a few stops meaning they are used even less.
He has taken the complete opposite approach to Livingstone who battled all the obstacles to taking buses (such as no one knowing which bus went where from where).
I'm fairly sure Livingstone would have clamped down on the numbers of private hire cars.
Thanks for the context, TBB. Seems weird politically, though not as weird as Susan Hall.0 -
Except train ownership is the complete opposite.rick_chasey said:It’s a fairly good experiment on public vs private ownership for public transport provision
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Well for bussesTheBigBean said:
Except train ownership is the complete opposite.rick_chasey said:It’s a fairly good experiment on public vs private ownership for public transport provision
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Unfortunately most drivers know little about cars, and "enhancements" such as "sports mode" only encourages them to drive like d*cksStevo_666 said:
Seem to be quite a handy thing for people who enjoy driving and know about cars.pinno said:
Yep. Very handy for over taking.kingstongraham said:Nobody actually "engages sports mode" do they?
Much prefer driving in sports mode (and that is not habitually speeding).0 -
I guess that ULEZ probably isn't going to win this one for the Tories, despite their new-found apparent concern for the less-well-off.
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The problem for the Tories with their descent into populism is that it's not popular.0
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First.Aspect said:
The problem for the Tories with their descent into populism is that it's not popular.
Especially when the only people who seem happy to spout it are deeply weird.0 -
Do you know a lot about cars then?davebradswmb said:
Unfortunately most drivers know little about cars, and "enhancements" such as "sports mode" only encourages them to drive like d*cksStevo_666 said:
Seem to be quite a handy thing for people who enjoy driving and know about cars.pinno said:
Yep. Very handy for over taking.kingstongraham said:Nobody actually "engages sports mode" do they?
Much prefer driving in sports mode (and that is not habitually speeding)."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Too many people don't need any encouragement to drive like dicks.0
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If you are into driving fast, you are more likely to buy a faster car, which means it's more likely to have a sport mode.
So it is consequential, not causal.0 -
Under the GLC? Bus deregulation and the absence of this in London was a lot earlier than 2000.TheBigBean said:
That shows the impact Livingstone had. The current bus slayer is undoing his work.rick_chasey said:1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Or, in the case of ULEZ, might be popular with a group of people who aren’t part of the electorate I.e the commuters who want to drive into London from the Home Counties.First.Aspect said:The problem for the Tories with their descent into populism is that it's not popular.
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He was mayor between 2000 and 2008 when bus numbers look like they doubled.rjsterry said:
Under the GLC? Bus deregulation and the absence of this in London was a lot earlier than 2000.TheBigBean said:
That shows the impact Livingstone had. The current bus slayer is undoing his work.rick_chasey said:0 -
There is a steep increase for sure. How much is down to Livingston or general resurgence of London is debatable. The primary difference between the two lines is the regulatory framework, London has operated under a different system (what is now TfL, which was transferred from central government control in 2000) from the rest of the country since the 1930s, but nationalised bus services across the rest of the country were deregulated in the 1980s.TheBigBean said:
He was mayor between 2000 and 2008 when bus numbers look like they doubled.rjsterry said:
Under the GLC? Bus deregulation and the absence of this in London was a lot earlier than 2000.TheBigBean said:
That shows the impact Livingstone had. The current bus slayer is undoing his work.rick_chasey said:1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
There are two points: (i) Livingstone (ii) Regulatory framework.rjsterry said:
There is a steep increase for sure. How much is down to Livingston or general resurgence of London is debatable. The primary difference between the two lines is the regulatory framework, London has operated under a different system (what is now TfL, which was transferred from central government control in 2000) from the rest of the country since the 1930s, but nationalised bus services across the rest of the country were deregulated in the 1980s.TheBigBean said:
He was mayor between 2000 and 2008 when bus numbers look like they doubled.rjsterry said:
Under the GLC? Bus deregulation and the absence of this in London was a lot earlier than 2000.TheBigBean said:
That shows the impact Livingstone had. The current bus slayer is undoing his work.rick_chasey said:
My view is that Livingstone had a massive impact and is a more important factor in London bus figures than anything else.
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There's certainly a strong correlation. I think it's relevant that without the preceding devolution, there wouldn't be a mayor, let alone local control of transport policy.TheBigBean said:
There are two points: (i) Livingstone (ii) Regulatory framework.rjsterry said:
There is a steep increase for sure. How much is down to Livingston or general resurgence of London is debatable. The primary difference between the two lines is the regulatory framework, London has operated under a different system (what is now TfL, which was transferred from central government control in 2000) from the rest of the country since the 1930s, but nationalised bus services across the rest of the country were deregulated in the 1980s.TheBigBean said:
He was mayor between 2000 and 2008 when bus numbers look like they doubled.rjsterry said:
Under the GLC? Bus deregulation and the absence of this in London was a lot earlier than 2000.TheBigBean said:
That shows the impact Livingstone had. The current bus slayer is undoing his work.rick_chasey said:
My view is that Livingstone had a massive impact and is a more important factor in London bus figures than anything else.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Is it not the actual power structure and the incentives driving the management of the bus system that had the main impact? Granted, I would give some credit to the idea that the London system puts more power into the hand of the mayor and so one person can have a bigger influence, but surely this is a great real world experiment on what happens to the service when you privatise buses vs when you don't?0
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London buses have been centrally regulated since the 1930s. Usage was way below rest of UK at the start of the graph despite the red Routemaster being so iconic.rick_chasey said:Is it not the actual power structure and the incentives driving the management of the bus system that had the main impact? Granted, I would give some credit to the idea that the London system puts more power into the hand of the mayor and so one person can have a bigger influence, but surely this is a great real world experiment on what happens to the service when you privatise buses vs when you don't?
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Could the flip side be that the Tube briefly became relatively expensive so people switched to the bus for a relatively short period until that stopped being much cheaper? As an infrequent vistor I've only ever used the buses a few times but whilst they have wider coverage I would have thought that using the Tube would be preferable to most people if the costs aren't significantly different.0
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Tube is fine for central, but London's a big place and soon it isn't central.Pross said:Could the flip side be that the Tube briefly became relatively expensive so people switched to the bus for a relatively short period until that stopped being much cheaper? As an infrequent vistor I've only ever used the buses a few times but whilst they have wider coverage I would have thought that using the Tube would be preferable to most people if the costs aren't significantly different.
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Livingstone did the following:Pross said:Could the flip side be that the Tube briefly became relatively expensive so people switched to the bus for a relatively short period until that stopped being much cheaper? As an infrequent vistor I've only ever used the buses a few times but whilst they have wider coverage I would have thought that using the Tube would be preferable to most people if the costs aren't significantly different.
- introduced the congestion charge, so improved bus times
- slashed the cost of bus journeys
- improved the information available about buses at bus stops
- may (needs fact checking) have made road closures pay by time taken =>improved bus times
Livingstone is a Londoner who hates cars and would fit in well with this thread.
I don't think it was an accident or a blip.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whR41-GnVWk
Do you think they see the irony in dressing as dinosaurs?- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
6 minutes 20:
"Perfect travel conditions in central London, you've got tubes you've got trains you've got........ we simply don't have that out here, so people are absolutely compelled to use their cars"
*Camera cuts to bus going past*
- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono1 -
Maybe they're dressing as Khan, given his political career is in danger of extinction as a result of the ULEZ expansion?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
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I'm frequently amused by the enraged FB posts asking "Why can't I drive and park in Topsham... it's terrible since they introduced residents' parking permits and charge for parking for visitors!" When I point out that there are regular bus services, multiple cycle routes and a train station with a train every 30 minutes, they huff and puff with no solution, other than apparently implying if all parking restrictions were lifted there would be ample space for residents and everybody who wants to park here at busy times.
They seem to be struggling with the possibility that there are too many people wanting to drive to and park in a place with a finite (small) number of parking spaces, especially at busy times, and that charging for parking makes it more likely they'll find a space if they do come by car.
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