The Big 'Let's sell our cars and take buses/ebikes instead' thread (warning: probably very dull)
Comments
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Not really as I’m on the bike and it barely matters then.focuszing723 said:
Doesn't it irritate you a bit when you hit a twenty limit and there is not one person in sight?Pross said:
https://etsc.eu/spain-switches-most-urban-roads-to-30-km-h-amid-calls-for-action-in-several-eu-member-states/focuszing723 said:
If the rest of Europe don't feel the need, why are we pursuing it?briantrumpet said:A Tory campaigning for a 20mph speed limit. Seems he thinks it increases safety too.
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Me saying that in my view it works in a specific situation does not mean that it is a good thing more widely. Do I really have to spell that out to you?briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Not sure about your view, but the point was making was about using it in particular places vs a blanket application. Brian didn't want to read that bit.pangolin said:
Sounds like we're all on the same page then!Stevo_666 said:
As I've said before, in specific cases it can do. My village is one of those specific cases.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
In that particular case, yes. What most people object to is blanket 20mph limits.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
There is a narrow point with a blind bend.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
This question? Missed it as have been busy.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
I think I remember you saying there's a 20mph limit in the middle of your village... would you be in favour of raising that back to 30mph?
As already explained there are a few cases where a 20mph limit is reasonable and the case in my village is one of those.
Thanks. So what is the reason it's sensible in your village?
So slowing traffic down makes it less likely that someone will be seriously injured, I guess. Good idea.
Glad you agree that slowing cars down can improve safety.
'Most' people in Wales support the 20mph limit in urban areas. 46/34, which is rather more convincing that 52/48.
Doesn't matter how many times you (or Sunak) repeat 'blanket application', it's not what's happening. Even in Wales (where the majority of the population support it). It's amusing to see you support it in your own village, but want to deny it to others, having admitted that slowing traffic down improves safety."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
The Welsh application I referred to appear to be that as it is making 20mph the default instead of 20, unless specifically exempted by a local council.kingstongraham said:
In the way that it's not a blanket limit.Stevo_666 said:
In what way do you think that is wrong?kingstongraham said:
Blanket. Just keep saying blanket.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure about your view, but the point was making was about using it in particular places vs a blanket application. Brian didn't want to read that bit.pangolin said:
Sounds like we're all on the same page then!Stevo_666 said:
As I've said before, in specific cases it can do. My village is one of those specific cases.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
In that particular case, yes. What most people object to is blanket 20mph limits.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
There is a narrow point with a blind bend.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
This question? Missed it as have been busy.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
I think I remember you saying there's a 20mph limit in the middle of your village... would you be in favour of raising that back to 30mph?
As already explained there are a few cases where a 20mph limit is reasonable and the case in my village is one of those.
Thanks. So what is the reason it's sensible in your village?
So slowing traffic down makes it less likely that someone will be seriously injured, I guess. Good idea.
Glad you agree that slowing cars down can improve safety.
'Most' people in Wales support the 20mph limit in urban areas. 46/34, which is rather more convincing that 52/48.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I thought you detested everything the Tories stand for?briantrumpet said:A Tory campaigning for a 20mph speed limit. Seems he thinks it increases safety too.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Slightly surprised that you haven't come across it either on tiktok or twitter, given that here you are interested in effective transport and politics, and it's not just loons that are taking about it. It is occasionally talked about in a positive sense!rick_chasey said:
Lol it’s hard to overestimate how different everyone’s experience of tiktok is.Jezyboy said:
You've not seen the 15 minute city conspiracies whilst tiktoking then?rick_chasey said:
The algorithm is ruthless in pruning out what you don’t like so no, definitely not.
If anyone complains about what they see on that app they only have themselves to blame.
Anyway, it's definitely become somewhat of a meme amongst the nutters. It's bizarre seeing it referenced by mainstream politicians.0 -
Do you not have some sympathy for those who live just outside your LTN, as they will likely be in a high (or higher) traffic neighbourbood on account of the traffic displaced from where you live?kingstongraham said:I'm on the frontline, being both in an LTN and able to walk to the shops. Also on a 20mph street. Let me tell you it's hell and I'm glad someone has had the bravery to stand up and say so. I just want to brrm brrm for two minutes to a car park, please let me.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
So is your policy that everyone should have to live in a high traffic neighborhood?Stevo_666 said:
Do you not have some sympathy for those who live just outside your LTN, as they will likely be in a high (or higher) traffic neighbourbood on account of the traffic displaced from where you live?kingstongraham said:I'm on the frontline, being both in an LTN and able to walk to the shops. Also on a 20mph street. Let me tell you it's hell and I'm glad someone has had the bravery to stand up and say so. I just want to brrm brrm for two minutes to a car park, please let me.
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I'm asking Kingstongraham about his views. Give him a chance to reply.Jezyboy said:
So is your policy that everyone should have to live in a high traffic neighborhood?Stevo_666 said:
Do you not have some sympathy for those who live just outside your LTN, as they will likely be in a high (or higher) traffic neighbourbood on account of the traffic displaced from where you live?kingstongraham said:I'm on the frontline, being both in an LTN and able to walk to the shops. Also on a 20mph street. Let me tell you it's hell and I'm glad someone has had the bravery to stand up and say so. I just want to brrm brrm for two minutes to a car park, please let me.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Yes it does.Pross said:Not really. You could say the same with any limit.
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Yes it does.rick_chasey said:
Not really as I’m on the bike and it barely matters then.focuszing723 said:
Doesn't it irritate you a bit when you hit a twenty limit and there is not one person in sight?Pross said:
https://etsc.eu/spain-switches-most-urban-roads-to-30-km-h-amid-calls-for-action-in-several-eu-member-states/focuszing723 said:
If the rest of Europe don't feel the need, why are we pursuing it?briantrumpet said:A Tory campaigning for a 20mph speed limit. Seems he thinks it increases safety too.
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Yes it does.focuszing723 said:
Doesn't it irritate you a bit when you hit a twenty limit and there is not one person in sight?Pross said:
https://etsc.eu/spain-switches-most-urban-roads-to-30-km-h-amid-calls-for-action-in-several-eu-member-states/focuszing723 said:
If the rest of Europe don't feel the need, why are we pursuing it?briantrumpet said:A Tory campaigning for a 20mph speed limit. Seems he thinks it increases safety too.
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Spain has had a socialist government for some time, which probably explains the move.Pross said:
https://etsc.eu/spain-switches-most-urban-roads-to-30-km-h-amid-calls-for-action-in-several-eu-member-states/focuszing723 said:
If the rest of Europe don't feel the need, why are we pursuing it?briantrumpet said:A Tory campaigning for a 20mph speed limit. Seems he thinks it increases safety too.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I’ve heard that repetition is a form of humour.focuszing723 said:
Yes it does.focuszing723 said:
Doesn't it irritate you a bit when you hit a twenty limit and there is not one person in sight?Pross said:
https://etsc.eu/spain-switches-most-urban-roads-to-30-km-h-amid-calls-for-action-in-several-eu-member-states/focuszing723 said:
If the rest of Europe don't feel the need, why are we pursuing it?briantrumpet said:A Tory campaigning for a 20mph speed limit. Seems he thinks it increases safety too.
You’ve just ruined that theory.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Serious TikTok is the worst.Jezyboy said:
Slightly surprised that you haven't come across it either on tiktok or twitter, given that here you are interested in effective transport and politics, and it's not just loons that are taking about it. It is occasionally talked about in a positive sense!rick_chasey said:
Lol it’s hard to overestimate how different everyone’s experience of tiktok is.Jezyboy said:
You've not seen the 15 minute city conspiracies whilst tiktoking then?rick_chasey said:
The algorithm is ruthless in pruning out what you don’t like so no, definitely not.
If anyone complains about what they see on that app they only have themselves to blame.
Anyway, it's definitely become somewhat of a meme amongst the nutters. It's bizarre seeing it referenced by mainstream politicians.
Fun and jokes only.0 -
I’ve heard that repetition is a form of humour.pblakeney said:
I’ve heard that repetition is a form of humour.focuszing723 said:
Yes it does.focuszing723 said:
Doesn't it irritate you a bit when you hit a twenty limit and there is not one person in sight?Pross said:
https://etsc.eu/spain-switches-most-urban-roads-to-30-km-h-amid-calls-for-action-in-several-eu-member-states/focuszing723 said:
If the rest of Europe don't feel the need, why are we pursuing it?briantrumpet said:A Tory campaigning for a 20mph speed limit. Seems he thinks it increases safety too.
You’ve just ruined that theory.
You’ve just ruined that theory.0 -
I just don't get TikTok, it's too short to gain anything meaningful which YouTube provides. X makes more sense than TikTok.0
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Nope. They aren't.Stevo_666 said:
Do you not have some sympathy for those who live just outside your LTN, as they will likely be in a high (or higher) traffic neighbourbood on account of the traffic displaced from where you live?kingstongraham said:I'm on the frontline, being both in an LTN and able to walk to the shops. Also on a 20mph street. Let me tell you it's hell and I'm glad someone has had the bravery to stand up and say so. I just want to brrm brrm for two minutes to a car park, please let me.
I feel sympathy for those who live the other side of the main road where every road is a through road.0 -
Ah OK, as long as you're OK then?kingstongraham said:
Nope.Stevo_666 said:
Do you not have some sympathy for those who live just outside your LTN, as they will likely be in a high (or higher) traffic neighbourbood on account of the traffic displaced from where you live?kingstongraham said:I'm on the frontline, being both in an LTN and able to walk to the shops. Also on a 20mph street. Let me tell you it's hell and I'm glad someone has had the bravery to stand up and say so. I just want to brrm brrm for two minutes to a car park, please let me.
As far as I can see, LTNs seem to be traffic based NIMBY-ism and your reply backs up my hunch."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I never had the Brexit thread down as humour anyway.focuszing723 said:
I’ve heard that repetition is a form of humour.pblakeney said:
I’ve heard that repetition is a form of humour.focuszing723 said:
Yes it does.focuszing723 said:
Doesn't it irritate you a bit when you hit a twenty limit and there is not one person in sight?Pross said:
https://etsc.eu/spain-switches-most-urban-roads-to-30-km-h-amid-calls-for-action-in-several-eu-member-states/focuszing723 said:
If the rest of Europe don't feel the need, why are we pursuing it?briantrumpet said:A Tory campaigning for a 20mph speed limit. Seems he thinks it increases safety too.
You’ve just ruined that theory.
You’ve just ruined that theory."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
See my update. There is not additional traffic in roads just outside the LTN.Stevo_666 said:
Ah OK, as long as you're OK then?kingstongraham said:
Nope.Stevo_666 said:
Do you not have some sympathy for those who live just outside your LTN, as they will likely be in a high (or higher) traffic neighbourbood on account of the traffic displaced from where you live?kingstongraham said:I'm on the frontline, being both in an LTN and able to walk to the shops. Also on a 20mph street. Let me tell you it's hell and I'm glad someone has had the bravery to stand up and say so. I just want to brrm brrm for two minutes to a car park, please let me.
As far as I can see, LTNs seem to be traffic based NIMBY-ism and your reply backs up my hunch.0 -
Got any data for that? Or are you saying that the traffic has just disappeared?kingstongraham said:
See my update. There is not additional traffic in roads just outside the LTN.Stevo_666 said:
Ah OK, as long as you're OK then?kingstongraham said:
Nope.Stevo_666 said:
Do you not have some sympathy for those who live just outside your LTN, as they will likely be in a high (or higher) traffic neighbourbood on account of the traffic displaced from where you live?kingstongraham said:I'm on the frontline, being both in an LTN and able to walk to the shops. Also on a 20mph street. Let me tell you it's hell and I'm glad someone has had the bravery to stand up and say so. I just want to brrm brrm for two minutes to a car park, please let me.
As far as I can see, LTNs seem to be traffic based NIMBY-ism and your reply backs up my hunch."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
A lot of it has disappeared, yes.Stevo_666 said:
Got any data for that? Or are you saying that the traffic has just disappeared?kingstongraham said:
See my update. There is not additional traffic in roads just outside the LTN.Stevo_666 said:
Ah OK, as long as you're OK then?kingstongraham said:
Nope.Stevo_666 said:
Do you not have some sympathy for those who live just outside your LTN, as they will likely be in a high (or higher) traffic neighbourbood on account of the traffic displaced from where you live?kingstongraham said:I'm on the frontline, being both in an LTN and able to walk to the shops. Also on a 20mph street. Let me tell you it's hell and I'm glad someone has had the bravery to stand up and say so. I just want to brrm brrm for two minutes to a car park, please let me.
As far as I can see, LTNs seem to be traffic based NIMBY-ism and your reply backs up my hunch.0 -
So no data?kingstongraham said:
A lot of it has disappeared, yes.Stevo_666 said:
Got any data for that? Or are you saying that the traffic has just disappeared?kingstongraham said:
See my update. There is not additional traffic in roads just outside the LTN.Stevo_666 said:
Ah OK, as long as you're OK then?kingstongraham said:
Nope.Stevo_666 said:
Do you not have some sympathy for those who live just outside your LTN, as they will likely be in a high (or higher) traffic neighbourbood on account of the traffic displaced from where you live?kingstongraham said:I'm on the frontline, being both in an LTN and able to walk to the shops. Also on a 20mph street. Let me tell you it's hell and I'm glad someone has had the bravery to stand up and say so. I just want to brrm brrm for two minutes to a car park, please let me.
As far as I can see, LTNs seem to be traffic based NIMBY-ism and your reply backs up my hunch."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Good luck getting decent data for something that changed in 2020.Stevo_666 said:
So no data?kingstongraham said:
A lot of it has disappeared, yes.Stevo_666 said:
Got any data for that? Or are you saying that the traffic has just disappeared?kingstongraham said:
See my update. There is not additional traffic in roads just outside the LTN.Stevo_666 said:
Ah OK, as long as you're OK then?kingstongraham said:
Nope.Stevo_666 said:
Do you not have some sympathy for those who live just outside your LTN, as they will likely be in a high (or higher) traffic neighbourbood on account of the traffic displaced from where you live?kingstongraham said:I'm on the frontline, being both in an LTN and able to walk to the shops. Also on a 20mph street. Let me tell you it's hell and I'm glad someone has had the bravery to stand up and say so. I just want to brrm brrm for two minutes to a car park, please let me.
As far as I can see, LTNs seem to be traffic based NIMBY-ism and your reply backs up my hunch.
I'll look for something if you want.
There has definitely been a shift towards taking children to school on foot or bike due to the improvements in road safety on these roads and school roads over the last three years.0 -
Stevo_666 said:
I thought you detested everything the Tories stand for?briantrumpet said:A Tory campaigning for a 20mph speed limit. Seems he thinks it increases safety too.
Which Tories? The ones who campaign for safer roads, or the ones who want to deny to others what you've got in your village? I'm quite happy detesting a Tory Party that is not only incompetent and has raised taxes, but doesn't even know what it stands for.0 -
Nothing stopping the neighbouring areas applying for one (well, unless the government bans them of course).Stevo_666 said:
Ah OK, as long as you're OK then?kingstongraham said:
Nope.Stevo_666 said:
Do you not have some sympathy for those who live just outside your LTN, as they will likely be in a high (or higher) traffic neighbourbood on account of the traffic displaced from where you live?kingstongraham said:I'm on the frontline, being both in an LTN and able to walk to the shops. Also on a 20mph street. Let me tell you it's hell and I'm glad someone has had the bravery to stand up and say so. I just want to brrm brrm for two minutes to a car park, please let me.
As far as I can see, LTNs seem to be traffic based NIMBY-ism and your reply backs up my hunch.0 -
I never really thought of road safety being a Socialist issue to be honest. It just seems sensible to me and apparently surveys in Spain show the majority are in favour of keeping the limit now after the sort of initial reaction we’ve had.Stevo_666 said:
Spain has had a socialist government for some time, which probably explains the move.Pross said:
https://etsc.eu/spain-switches-most-urban-roads-to-30-km-h-amid-calls-for-action-in-several-eu-member-states/focuszing723 said:
If the rest of Europe don't feel the need, why are we pursuing it?briantrumpet said:A Tory campaigning for a 20mph speed limit. Seems he thinks it increases safety too.
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Part of the justification for the one I live in was that it would stop us using some of the other roads that are unsuitable to join the main road.Pross said:
Nothing stopping the neighbouring areas applying for one (well, unless the government bans them of course).Stevo_666 said:
Ah OK, as long as you're OK then?kingstongraham said:
Nope.Stevo_666 said:
Do you not have some sympathy for those who live just outside your LTN, as they will likely be in a high (or higher) traffic neighbourbood on account of the traffic displaced from where you live?kingstongraham said:I'm on the frontline, being both in an LTN and able to walk to the shops. Also on a 20mph street. Let me tell you it's hell and I'm glad someone has had the bravery to stand up and say so. I just want to brrm brrm for two minutes to a car park, please let me.
As far as I can see, LTNs seem to be traffic based NIMBY-ism and your reply backs up my hunch.0 -
You've not presented any data to support the idea that LTNs increase traffic around their perimeters. It's often stated but have never seen anything to back it up beyond 'where do those vehicles go?'. I mean half the point of them is that people make fewer car journeys because it's quicker and more pleasant to walk the short distance to the shops/school/whatever.Stevo_666 said:
Got any data for that? Or are you saying that the traffic has just disappeared?kingstongraham said:
See my update. There is not additional traffic in roads just outside the LTN.Stevo_666 said:
Ah OK, as long as you're OK then?kingstongraham said:
Nope.Stevo_666 said:
Do you not have some sympathy for those who live just outside your LTN, as they will likely be in a high (or higher) traffic neighbourbood on account of the traffic displaced from where you live?kingstongraham said:I'm on the frontline, being both in an LTN and able to walk to the shops. Also on a 20mph street. Let me tell you it's hell and I'm glad someone has had the bravery to stand up and say so. I just want to brrm brrm for two minutes to a car park, please let me.
As far as I can see, LTNs seem to be traffic based NIMBY-ism and your reply backs up my hunch.
Here's one study on the effects both within and around LTNs. There are others of course.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S13619209220036251985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
We'll, when you've run out of anything sensible to say I guess you have to start regurgitating conspiracy theory bollox from Facebook.Pross said:
I never really thought of road safety being a Socialist issue to be honest. It just seems sensible to me and apparently surveys in Spain show the majority are in favour of keeping the limit now after the sort of initial reaction we’ve had.Stevo_666 said:
Spain has had a socialist government for some time, which probably explains the move.Pross said:
https://etsc.eu/spain-switches-most-urban-roads-to-30-km-h-amid-calls-for-action-in-several-eu-member-states/focuszing723 said:
If the rest of Europe don't feel the need, why are we pursuing it?briantrumpet said:A Tory campaigning for a 20mph speed limit. Seems he thinks it increases safety too.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0
