The Big 'Let's sell our cars and take buses/ebikes instead' thread (warning: probably very dull)

davebradswmb

Diesel cars produce particulates. This is covered up with the DPFs, which have limited capacity. They work great when the car is tested as new, but after that....

Pross

davebradswmb said:

Diesel cars produce particulates. This is covered up with the DPFs, which have limited capacity. They work great when the car is tested as new, but after that....

They get tested at MOTs every year.

Stevo_666

davebradswmb said:

Stevo_666 said:

davebradswmb said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

First.Aspect said:

Meh. The point is that it's naive to think you can uninvent the car. Or reengineer a country to avoid the need or attraction of having one.

I think this is is the key point which explain why Ricks fantasy transport world will not happen in our lifetimes. The changes required are so huge and so expensive for something that most people don't want to do that it's a non-runner.

Add to that the obvious limitations of any public transport system and cars are here to stay.

If you look at how quickly the car changed travel, you should be able to see how quickly other travel can come.

All I need is something that can take me from where I am now to where I want to go at a time of my choosing and within reason accommodate whatever I want to take (such a boot full of stuff). Plus no extra charges from up to 4 fellow passengers and I'm allowed to drive if I want. Sort that and I'll sign up.

I like the no "extra" charges bit - gives the opportunity for charging for any inconvenience the car use places on other people. Also no mention of being able to get there at any particular speed, which is good.

On the DLR, you can sit at the front and pretend to drive - would that help with the "allowed to drive" bit? You could bring a special hat.

Whatever. I feel I have explained why Rick's idea is the proverbial 'pie in the sky'.

Sadly I think that Rick (and I) are in a tiny minority, there are far more people that agree with you. Why should you change the way you live your life for something as ephemeral as saving the planet? Which is why the earth will not be habitable soon, I estimate about 100 - 200 years. We'll all be dead, so why should we care?

If you assume that me getting on a bus from time to time will save the planet then you're more of an optimist than me.

In a nutshell, this is why this planet is finished

It may be finished but that very likely won't be the reason.

Stevo_666

Even the Fib Dums are complaining about ULEZ now...
https://kingston.nub.news/news/local-news/lib-dem-ed-davey-calls-for-extended-ulez-boundary-to-be-moved-in-kingston-borough-198078

In Kingston, of all places

Stevo_666

pblakeney said:

Quick poll highlighted in another thread but I don't want a cross threading tangent.
How many on here are directly affected and will have to pay ULEZ on a regular basis?

Nope. My car, OH's car and daughter's car are all compliant. Until they move the goalposts on what is compliant, at least.

rjsterry

One of two or three actually living in the Zone. 1 compliant car.

pblakeney

pblakeney said:

Quick poll highlighted in another thread but I don't want a cross threading tangent.
How many on here are directly affected and will have to pay ULEZ on a regular basis?

Right. Small sample, and short time, but zero. Mountain range out of a molehill for political point scoring. Additional results more than welcome.

kingstongraham

Stevo_666 said:

Even the Fib Dums are complaining about ULEZ now...
https://kingston.nub.news/news/local-news/lib-dem-ed-davey-calls-for-extended-ulez-boundary-to-be-moved-in-kingston-borough-198078

In Kingston, of all places

If you thought the Lib Dems were in favour of this expansion happening now, you (understandably) haven't been paying attention: https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/london-assembly-members/publications-caroline-pidgeon/publication-caroline-pidgeon-ulez-expansion-consultation-response-liberal-democrat-group

From a year ago - "While the Liberal Democrat Group on the London Assembly welcomes this public consultation and principally supports the expansion of the Ultra Low Emission Zone to cover the current Greater London boundary it is clear that these proposals need to be delivered alongside a comprehensive package of investment in public transport, particularly in the outer London boroughs, and a wide-ranging scrappage scheme with mobility credits. We also would urge you to delay your proposed start date to give Londoners the time and support to change vehicles and their travel."

Stevo_666

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

Even the Fib Dums are complaining about ULEZ now...
https://kingston.nub.news/news/local-news/lib-dem-ed-davey-calls-for-extended-ulez-boundary-to-be-moved-in-kingston-borough-198078

In Kingston, of all places

If you thought the Lib Dems were in favour of this expansion happening now, you (understandably) haven't been paying attention: https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-are/what-london-assembly-does/london-assembly-members/publications-caroline-pidgeon/publication-caroline-pidgeon-ulez-expansion-consultation-response-liberal-democrat-group

From a year ago - "While the Liberal Democrat Group on the London Assembly welcomes this public consultation and principally supports the expansion of the Ultra Low Emission Zone to cover the current Greater London boundary it is clear that these proposals need to be delivered alongside a comprehensive package of investment in public transport, particularly in the outer London boroughs, and a wide-ranging scrappage scheme with mobility credits. We also would urge you to delay your proposed start date to give Londoners the time and support to change vehicles and their travel."

Clearly not, though I have to say I have tended to focus on the views of the major parties rather than the fringe parties.

Makes you wonder who does support it, eh?

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

Even the Fib Dums are complaining about ULEZ now...
https://kingston.nub.news/news/local-news/lib-dem-ed-davey-calls-for-extended-ulez-boundary-to-be-moved-in-kingston-borough-198078

In Kingston, of all places

Yep, they are being opportunist tw*ts increasingly often.

kingstongraham

I would be impressed if anyone can come up with a justification for Bridge Road on this map:

Pross

Opportunity to turn safely at the roudabout with Hook Road for vehicles not wanting to enter the zone? Either that of Sadiq Khan has a family member that lives on that road.

pblakeney

Pross said:

Opportunity to turn safely at the roudabout with Hook Road for vehicles not wanting to enter the zone? Either that of Sadiq Khan has a family member that lives on that road.

Was about to suggest a councellor or similar living there.

Stevo_666

And for those who are Interested there is a database showing how many ULEZ cameras in each are have been damaged or removed. While the total across London is around a quarter of all cameras, looks like my old stamping ground of Bromley is up for 'top prize' at the moment with some parts of the borough recording a 100% hit rate.
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/31/ulez-cameras-vandalism-expanded-quarter-sadiq-khan/

rick_chasey

Yay vandalism 🙄

briantrumpet

rick_chasey said:

Yay vandalism 🙄

Well, Ian Duncan Smith approves, so that's fine. Much quicker than actually getting stuff done through politics. Let's just forget it was Tory policy too. So they created and insisted on a policy, now advocate vandalism to stop it happening. How very Modern Tory.

Stevo_666

Not sure anyone has done a survey of the political views of those doing the vandalising.

First.Aspect

Ultra low education zoo?

kingstongraham

Cars only need to be caught by one.

I'd rather us taxpayers didn't have the extra expense.

monkimark

It is a strange spur of Kingston borough into surrey (and therefore of the ulez) and i think bridge road has a central reserve that stops you turning off, maybe scc didnt allow a sign before you are trapped on the dual carriageway bit towards Hook rd?

kingstongraham said:

I would be impressed if anyone can come up with a justification for Bridge Road on this map:

kingstongraham

My phone jut alerted me to this on GBNews for some reason:

Ulez 'hack' can save drivers hundreds of pounds a year after controversial expansion

Can anyone guess what it is?

rick_chasey

Driving a car that meets standards?

rick_chasey

It’s easiest understood as “if you want to help poison the air, we’re going to charge you to do so”

kingstongraham

rick_chasey said:

Driving a car that meets standards?

Yup.

briantrumpet

kingstongraham said:

rick_chasey said:

Driving a car that meets standards?

Yup.

That's similar to the hack to beat speeding cameras.

focuszing723

The amount of diesel pollution on some new trains is 13 times higher than on one of central London’s busiest roads, researchers found.

Passengers travelling onboard a Great Western Railway carriage running from London to Bristol, procured by the government as part of a £5.7bn scheme, were subject to huge spikes in nitrogen dioxide (NO2) pollution when it switched to diesel from electric.

NO2 levels on the two-year-old bi-mode Hitachi trains peaked at more than 13 times the average recorded on the traffic-clogged Marylebone Road in central London, according to a study by the Rail Safety and Standards Board (RSSB).

The Department for Transport (DfT) said ministers had commissioned more research after the “concerning findings”, as well as an immediate review of air quality standards and regulations for trains.

The Hitachi-built bi-modes were part of a £5.7bn government procurement of trains to run on the Great Western mainline and East Coast, with a controversial design that twinned diesel and electric power. The trains were also recently pulled out of service after cracks were discovered in the

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/sep/16/pollution-on-some-new-uk-trains-13-times-one-of-londons-busiest-roads

focuszing723

Driving any kind of car with just one passenger will emit much more CO2e than getting the train. But it turns out, driving a fully-packed LEV and EV actually results in lower emissions per person than travelling by train.

https://www.pawprint.eco/eco-blog/green-myth-busting-train-vs-driving
Interesting.

Jezyboy

Headline figures for the A320 neo put it as having lower CO2 per mile than the car with 4 people though. So the takehome message is we should all get planes but make sure we take all our friends and family on all our journeys...

rick_chasey

focuszing723 said:

The amount of diesel pollution on some new trains is 13 times higher than on one of central London’s busiest roads, researchers found.

Passengers travelling onboard a Great Western Railway carriage running from London to Bristol, procured by the government as part of a £5.7bn scheme, were subject to huge spikes in nitrogen dioxide (NO2) pollution when it switched to diesel from electric.

NO2 levels on the two-year-old bi-mode Hitachi trains peaked at more than 13 times the average recorded on the traffic-clogged Marylebone Road in central London, according to a study by the Rail Safety and Standards Board (RSSB).

The Department for Transport (DfT) said ministers had commissioned more research after the “concerning findings”, as well as an immediate review of air quality standards and regulations for trains.

The Hitachi-built bi-modes were part of a £5.7bn government procurement of trains to run on the Great Western mainline and East Coast, with a controversial design that twinned diesel and electric power. The trains were also recently pulled out of service after cracks were discovered in the

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/sep/16/pollution-on-some-new-uk-trains-13-times-one-of-londons-busiest-roads

Really glad the govt stayed the course on rail electricif….oh

Stevo_666

Looks like Sadiq is using the hack of using mobile ULEZ cameras as for some reason he isn't confident that the fixed the fixed camera network is up to the job.