The Big 'Let's sell our cars and take buses/ebikes instead' thread (warning: probably very dull)

Pross

First.Aspect said:

Pross said:

It's a good time for anyone living outside London to buy a cheap 8 year old diesel car anyway. Must be having a knock on effect on the value of my car though so maye I should protest as well.

I think you should moderate your expectations on the residual value of an 8 year old diesel.

It only has 190k miles on the clock so is barely run in, I plan to keep it until forced to change it (it was worth about £2k this time last year).

Stevo_666

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

With the London mayoral elections about 8 months off, I have a feeling that this will be Khan's 'Poll Tax' moment. The Tory mayoral candidate has already said that she will reverse the ULEZ expansion which I think will be a big vote winner.

Nah. Poll tax affected everyone. This affects maybe 5% of the 60% who didn't already live in the ULEZ.

Your newspaper is lying to you.

Its my view, not a newspaper's view (I don't read newspapers anyway)

Let's see what happens next May.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

I'd like to go car free but currently it's not practical. Not enough infrastructure, and cheaper to run a car.

I think this thread has shown that you haven't tried that hard.

I think the "trivial things that annoy you" thread show how much a) public transport I already use and b) what I think of the current state of it.

But yeah, I can't get the family to where they need to be often enough in a time and money efficient way without a car to justify going without one.

Everyone else thinks like that though so nothing changes. Much in the same way as congestion being solved by other people driving less.

Yes, that's why the system needs to change. People respond to incentives and you cannot expect to rely on collective altruism. That's naïve.

When you don't want people to litter, you don't just ask them not to. You put bins in and do regular bin collections and fine those who litter.

That's why the whole argument that you must live in a some kind of apostolic sustainable way in order to be able to have a credible view on this is so stupid.

The possibility of being fined for littering is pretty negligible, and yet only a minority of non-smokers do it. Why don't you litter?

It may require a carrot and stick approach to get people out of cars, but it also requires some leaders. People need to see that it is possible. Noting that it is a bad example, look at EVs. If no one had one, there would be scepticism about it all, but as soon as lots of neighbours get them, then the doubters can be made to believe.

What part of "it's not practical to where I need to get my family" is hard to understand?

When the bus routes from train stations to villages are shut down and no alternatives are given, what is to be done?

It's just not practical with the current public transport infrastructure.

All of it. It's the same as some people needing go vroom vroom in central London. They don't want to be inconvenienced by sharing transport with the masses. You don't want any inconvenience either.

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

I'd like to go car free but currently it's not practical. Not enough infrastructure, and cheaper to run a car.

I think this thread has shown that you haven't tried that hard.

I think the "trivial things that annoy you" thread show how much a) public transport I already use and b) what I think of the current state of it.

But yeah, I can't get the family to where they need to be often enough in a time and money efficient way without a car to justify going without one.

Everyone else thinks like that though so nothing changes. Much in the same way as congestion being solved by other people driving less.

Yes, that's why the system needs to change. People respond to incentives and you cannot expect to rely on collective altruism. That's naïve.

When you don't want people to litter, you don't just ask them not to. You put bins in and do regular bin collections and fine those who litter.

That's why the whole argument that you must live in a some kind of apostolic sustainable way in order to be able to have a credible view on this is so stupid.

The possibility of being fined for littering is pretty negligible, and yet only a minority of non-smokers do it. Why don't you litter?

It may require a carrot and stick approach to get people out of cars, but it also requires some leaders. People need to see that it is possible. Noting that it is a bad example, look at EVs. If no one had one, there would be scepticism about it all, but as soon as lots of neighbours get them, then the doubters can be made to believe.

What part of "it's not practical to where I need to get my family" is hard to understand?

When the bus routes from train stations to villages are shut down and no alternatives are given, what is to be done?

It's just not practical with the current public transport infrastructure.

All of it. It's the same as some people needing go vroom vroom in central London. They don't want to be inconvenienced by sharing transport with the masses. You don't want any inconvenience either.

I think spending £200 more and taking 4x as long with young children in tow and having to use a taxi anyway versus a car 10x a year is entirely unreasonable. The car pays for itself in 2 years, which I paid for in cash.

I'm a really good example of how the system incentivises the wrong behaviour.

My mother in law has to get lifts or taxis everywhere as the public transport to her village has been shut down.

Again, the system is geared to private car use, not public transport.

kingstongraham

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

With the London mayoral elections about 8 months off, I have a feeling that this will be Khan's 'Poll Tax' moment. The Tory mayoral candidate has already said that she will reverse the ULEZ expansion which I think will be a big vote winner.

Nah. Poll tax affected everyone. This affects maybe 5% of the 60% who didn't already live in the ULEZ.

Your newspaper is lying to you.

Its my view, not a newspaper's view (I don't read newspapers anyway)

Let's see what happens next May.

If you genuinely think she's going to win, you can get 5/1 on Susan Hall. Blinding odds in a two horse race.

If you prefer to simply bet against Khan, you can get 3/1 on Betfair.

rick_chasey

Plus £20 each way for the taxi. Plus all the taxi use to ferry my stroke stricken MIL.


ooooooor £30 in petrol.

pblakeney

Makes you think there is no practical alternative to using the car and the government aren’t going to subsidise it to cover the cost.
Thread finished?

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

Plus £20 each way for the taxi. Plus all the taxi use to ferry my stroke stricken MIL.


ooooooor £30 in petrol.

We've done this before. You weren't even aware you could get a Friends and Family card which knocks off a chunk of the cost. Seems a pretty easy journey from Cambridge to Doncaster via Peterborough. Also, your car isn't free, you need to price in insurance, tax and the cost of buying it.

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Plus £20 each way for the taxi. Plus all the taxi use to ferry my stroke stricken MIL.


ooooooor £30 in petrol.

We've done this before. You weren't even aware you could get a Friends and Family card which knocks off a chunk of the cost. Seems a pretty easy journey from Cambridge to Doncaster via Peterborough. Also, your car isn't free, you need to price in insurance, tax and the cost of buying it.

Firstly, the journey doesn't end at the train station and there is no public transport from there to the final destination.

Car was £4k, cash.

Insurance is £200 a year.

Tax is basically zero because it's such a small engine. Something like £8 a year.

Just for those journeys alone it pays for itself in 2/3 years. I've had the car for 5.

pblakeney

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Plus £20 each way for the taxi. Plus all the taxi use to ferry my stroke stricken MIL.


ooooooor £30 in petrol.

We've done this before. You weren't even aware you could get a Friends and Family card which knocks off a chunk of the cost. Seems a pretty easy journey from Cambridge to Doncaster via Peterborough. Also, your car isn't free, you need to price in insurance, tax and the cost of buying it.

Firstly, the journey doesn't end at the train station and there is no public transport from there to the final destination.

Car was £4k, cash.

Insurance is £200 a year.

Tax is basically zero because it's such a small engine. Something like £8 a year.

Just for those journeys alone it pays for itself in 2/3 years. I've had the car for 5.

Ergo thread done.

kingstongraham

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Plus £20 each way for the taxi. Plus all the taxi use to ferry my stroke stricken MIL.


ooooooor £30 in petrol.

We've done this before. You weren't even aware you could get a Friends and Family card which knocks off a chunk of the cost. Seems a pretty easy journey from Cambridge to Doncaster via Peterborough. Also, your car isn't free, you need to price in insurance, tax and the cost of buying it.

Firstly, the journey doesn't end at the train station and there is no public transport from there to the final destination.

Car was £4k, cash.

Insurance is £200 a year.

Tax is basically zero because it's such a small engine. Something like £8 a year.

Just for those journeys alone it pays for itself in 2/3 years. I've had the car for 5.

Ergo thread done.

Why should someone have to own and store a car all year for just those journeys?

pblakeney

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Plus £20 each way for the taxi. Plus all the taxi use to ferry my stroke stricken MIL.


ooooooor £30 in petrol.

We've done this before. You weren't even aware you could get a Friends and Family card which knocks off a chunk of the cost. Seems a pretty easy journey from Cambridge to Doncaster via Peterborough. Also, your car isn't free, you need to price in insurance, tax and the cost of buying it.

Firstly, the journey doesn't end at the train station and there is no public transport from there to the final destination.

Car was £4k, cash.

Insurance is £200 a year.

Tax is basically zero because it's such a small engine. Something like £8 a year.

Just for those journeys alone it pays for itself in 2/3 years. I've had the car for 5.

Ergo thread done.

Why should someone have to own and store a car all year for just those journeys?

Apparently it is cheaper and more convenient than using public transport.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Plus £20 each way for the taxi. Plus all the taxi use to ferry my stroke stricken MIL.


ooooooor £30 in petrol.

We've done this before. You weren't even aware you could get a Friends and Family card which knocks off a chunk of the cost. Seems a pretty easy journey from Cambridge to Doncaster via Peterborough. Also, your car isn't free, you need to price in insurance, tax and the cost of buying it.

Firstly, the journey doesn't end at the train station and there is no public transport from there to the final destination.

Car was £4k, cash.

Insurance is £200 a year.

Tax is basically zero because it's such a small engine. Something like £8 a year.

Just for those journeys alone it pays for itself in 2/3 years. I've had the car for 5.

There is no hope of a better system for all trips than the one you have available to you for this journey. Many people across the country would dream of such levels of public transport.

rick_chasey

Correct, which is why you need to change the system, right?

kingstongraham

pblakeney said:

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Plus £20 each way for the taxi. Plus all the taxi use to ferry my stroke stricken MIL.


ooooooor £30 in petrol.

We've done this before. You weren't even aware you could get a Friends and Family card which knocks off a chunk of the cost. Seems a pretty easy journey from Cambridge to Doncaster via Peterborough. Also, your car isn't free, you need to price in insurance, tax and the cost of buying it.

Firstly, the journey doesn't end at the train station and there is no public transport from there to the final destination.

Car was £4k, cash.

Insurance is £200 a year.

Tax is basically zero because it's such a small engine. Something like £8 a year.

Just for those journeys alone it pays for itself in 2/3 years. I've had the car for 5.

Ergo thread done.

Why should someone have to own and store a car all year for just those journeys?

Apparently it is cheaper and more convenient than using public transport.

It is never going to be more convenient for those journeys, but the owning of the vehicle also makes it more cost effective for other journeys. And then because it is cost effective due to the removal of the fixed cost element, it becomes the default when it shouldn't be.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

Correct, which is why you need to change the system, right?

There is no system that will get you out of a car.

TheBigBean

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Plus £20 each way for the taxi. Plus all the taxi use to ferry my stroke stricken MIL.


ooooooor £30 in petrol.

We've done this before. You weren't even aware you could get a Friends and Family card which knocks off a chunk of the cost. Seems a pretty easy journey from Cambridge to Doncaster via Peterborough. Also, your car isn't free, you need to price in insurance, tax and the cost of buying it.

Firstly, the journey doesn't end at the train station and there is no public transport from there to the final destination.

Car was £4k, cash.

Insurance is £200 a year.

Tax is basically zero because it's such a small engine. Something like £8 a year.

Just for those journeys alone it pays for itself in 2/3 years. I've had the car for 5.

Ergo thread done.

Why should someone have to own and store a car all year for just those journeys?

Apparently it is cheaper and more convenient than using public transport.

It is never going to be more convenient for those journeys, but the owning of the vehicle also makes it more cost effective for other journeys. And then because it is cost effective due to the removal of the fixed cost element, it becomes the default when it shouldn't be.

(Posting in agreement) That's why it is important not to own a car in the first place. It's a slippery slope. One minute you're driving to Yorkshire, then round the corner to Sainos, then you're going on track days.

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

Given it's an expansion, it's a non-issue.

It's just with the LTNs, and the fact that the Tories are desperate to get a foothold in any urban area and that they're now being run by a bunch of reactionary right-wing lot that it's an issue.

It doesn't affect many people, and in London, £12.50 isn't really very much.

Do you inhabit some weird parallel universe where nobody sees this as an issue? Just look at the news and its not just the Torygraph/DM.

https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/ultra-low-emission-zone-ulez-extensiopn-sadiq-khan-london-air-quality-b1103468.html

Nothing to see here, no controversy whatsoever, move along please folks and leave Ricktopia quickly and quietly...




Etc Etc

I think I recognise some of them from the antivax loons who hang out on my high street. There must be at least ten of them. I'm sure they can lend you a hi-viz and you can make it 11.

Pross

They also seem to be blaming Sunak as much as / more than Khan.

super_davo

Pross said:

They also seem to be blaming Sunak as much as / more than Khan.

This will be for one of two reasons:
1. Because they recognise that the London scheme is in response to the National Air Quality standards set by Parliament in 2010 and updated in 2017
2. Because they are a bunch of clowns who don't have a clue whether it impacts them and who's responsible, but don't like the sound of ULEZ anyway

Which is more likely?

monkimark

As long as they are stood outside Downing Street and not driving around London in a gormless daze, I think it can be chalked up as a win.

pblakeney

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Plus £20 each way for the taxi. Plus all the taxi use to ferry my stroke stricken MIL.


ooooooor £30 in petrol.

We've done this before. You weren't even aware you could get a Friends and Family card which knocks off a chunk of the cost. Seems a pretty easy journey from Cambridge to Doncaster via Peterborough. Also, your car isn't free, you need to price in insurance, tax and the cost of buying it.

Firstly, the journey doesn't end at the train station and there is no public transport from there to the final destination.

Car was £4k, cash.

Insurance is £200 a year.

Tax is basically zero because it's such a small engine. Something like £8 a year.

Just for those journeys alone it pays for itself in 2/3 years. I've had the car for 5.

Ergo thread done.

Why should someone have to own and store a car all year for just those journeys?

Apparently it is cheaper and more convenient than using public transport.

It is never going to be more convenient for those journeys, but the owning of the vehicle also makes it more cost effective for other journeys. And then because it is cost effective due to the removal of the fixed cost element, it becomes the default when it shouldn't be.

Which is why the car will remain the default for those outside a city centre and this thread can end. Unless someone has actual cost effective proposals past "things must change".

kingstongraham

pblakeney said:

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Plus £20 each way for the taxi. Plus all the taxi use to ferry my stroke stricken MIL.


ooooooor £30 in petrol.

We've done this before. You weren't even aware you could get a Friends and Family card which knocks off a chunk of the cost. Seems a pretty easy journey from Cambridge to Doncaster via Peterborough. Also, your car isn't free, you need to price in insurance, tax and the cost of buying it.

Firstly, the journey doesn't end at the train station and there is no public transport from there to the final destination.

Car was £4k, cash.

Insurance is £200 a year.

Tax is basically zero because it's such a small engine. Something like £8 a year.

Just for those journeys alone it pays for itself in 2/3 years. I've had the car for 5.

Ergo thread done.

Why should someone have to own and store a car all year for just those journeys?

Apparently it is cheaper and more convenient than using public transport.

It is never going to be more convenient for those journeys, but the owning of the vehicle also makes it more cost effective for other journeys. And then because it is cost effective due to the removal of the fixed cost element, it becomes the default when it shouldn't be.

Which is why the car will remain the default for those outside a city centre and this thread can end. Unless someone has actual cost effective proposals past "things must change".

How are you defining city centre to reach that conclusion?

Every time I go to other cities, I'm staggered at how bad public transport is, and every time I go to towns, I'm amazed at how accepting people are that cars ruin them.

pblakeney

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Plus £20 each way for the taxi. Plus all the taxi use to ferry my stroke stricken MIL.


ooooooor £30 in petrol.

We've done this before. You weren't even aware you could get a Friends and Family card which knocks off a chunk of the cost. Seems a pretty easy journey from Cambridge to Doncaster via Peterborough. Also, your car isn't free, you need to price in insurance, tax and the cost of buying it.

Firstly, the journey doesn't end at the train station and there is no public transport from there to the final destination.

Car was £4k, cash.

Insurance is £200 a year.

Tax is basically zero because it's such a small engine. Something like £8 a year.

Just for those journeys alone it pays for itself in 2/3 years. I've had the car for 5.

Ergo thread done.

Why should someone have to own and store a car all year for just those journeys?

Apparently it is cheaper and more convenient than using public transport.

It is never going to be more convenient for those journeys, but the owning of the vehicle also makes it more cost effective for other journeys. And then because it is cost effective due to the removal of the fixed cost element, it becomes the default when it shouldn't be.

Which is why the car will remain the default for those outside a city centre and this thread can end. Unless someone has actual cost effective proposals past "things must change".

How are you defining city centre to reach that conclusion?

Every time I go to other cities, I'm staggered at how bad public transport is, and every time I go to towns, I'm amazed at how accepting people are that cars ruin them.

Every time I go into a city centre I am astounded by the number and frequency of buses.
I lived for 5 years without a car as I lived in city centres. It was easy and quite liberating.

If your base level is London then everything will pale into insignificance. Obviously.

kingstongraham

pblakeney said:

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Plus £20 each way for the taxi. Plus all the taxi use to ferry my stroke stricken MIL.


ooooooor £30 in petrol.

We've done this before. You weren't even aware you could get a Friends and Family card which knocks off a chunk of the cost. Seems a pretty easy journey from Cambridge to Doncaster via Peterborough. Also, your car isn't free, you need to price in insurance, tax and the cost of buying it.

Firstly, the journey doesn't end at the train station and there is no public transport from there to the final destination.

Car was £4k, cash.

Insurance is £200 a year.

Tax is basically zero because it's such a small engine. Something like £8 a year.

Just for those journeys alone it pays for itself in 2/3 years. I've had the car for 5.

Ergo thread done.

Why should someone have to own and store a car all year for just those journeys?

Apparently it is cheaper and more convenient than using public transport.

It is never going to be more convenient for those journeys, but the owning of the vehicle also makes it more cost effective for other journeys. And then because it is cost effective due to the removal of the fixed cost element, it becomes the default when it shouldn't be.

Which is why the car will remain the default for those outside a city centre and this thread can end. Unless someone has actual cost effective proposals past "things must change".

How are you defining city centre to reach that conclusion?

Every time I go to other cities, I'm staggered at how bad public transport is, and every time I go to towns, I'm amazed at how accepting people are that cars ruin them.

Every time I go into a city centre I am astounded by the number and frequency of buses.
I lived for 5 years without a car as I lived in city centres. It was easy and quite liberating.

How are you defining city centres, again?

pblakeney

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Plus £20 each way for the taxi. Plus all the taxi use to ferry my stroke stricken MIL.


ooooooor £30 in petrol.

We've done this before. You weren't even aware you could get a Friends and Family card which knocks off a chunk of the cost. Seems a pretty easy journey from Cambridge to Doncaster via Peterborough. Also, your car isn't free, you need to price in insurance, tax and the cost of buying it.

Firstly, the journey doesn't end at the train station and there is no public transport from there to the final destination.

Car was £4k, cash.

Insurance is £200 a year.

Tax is basically zero because it's such a small engine. Something like £8 a year.

Just for those journeys alone it pays for itself in 2/3 years. I've had the car for 5.

Ergo thread done.

Why should someone have to own and store a car all year for just those journeys?

Apparently it is cheaper and more convenient than using public transport.

It is never going to be more convenient for those journeys, but the owning of the vehicle also makes it more cost effective for other journeys. And then because it is cost effective due to the removal of the fixed cost element, it becomes the default when it shouldn't be.

Which is why the car will remain the default for those outside a city centre and this thread can end. Unless someone has actual cost effective proposals past "things must change".

How are you defining city centre to reach that conclusion?

Every time I go to other cities, I'm staggered at how bad public transport is, and every time I go to towns, I'm amazed at how accepting people are that cars ruin them.

Every time I go into a city centre I am astounded by the number and frequency of buses.
I lived for 5 years without a car as I lived in city centres. It was easy and quite liberating.

How are you defining city centres, again?

Your question confuses me. The centre of cities. Fairly simple concept.

kingstongraham

pblakeney said:

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Plus £20 each way for the taxi. Plus all the taxi use to ferry my stroke stricken MIL.


ooooooor £30 in petrol.

We've done this before. You weren't even aware you could get a Friends and Family card which knocks off a chunk of the cost. Seems a pretty easy journey from Cambridge to Doncaster via Peterborough. Also, your car isn't free, you need to price in insurance, tax and the cost of buying it.

Firstly, the journey doesn't end at the train station and there is no public transport from there to the final destination.

Car was £4k, cash.

Insurance is £200 a year.

Tax is basically zero because it's such a small engine. Something like £8 a year.

Just for those journeys alone it pays for itself in 2/3 years. I've had the car for 5.

Ergo thread done.

Why should someone have to own and store a car all year for just those journeys?

Apparently it is cheaper and more convenient than using public transport.

It is never going to be more convenient for those journeys, but the owning of the vehicle also makes it more cost effective for other journeys. And then because it is cost effective due to the removal of the fixed cost element, it becomes the default when it shouldn't be.

Which is why the car will remain the default for those outside a city centre and this thread can end. Unless someone has actual cost effective proposals past "things must change".

How are you defining city centre to reach that conclusion?

Every time I go to other cities, I'm staggered at how bad public transport is, and every time I go to towns, I'm amazed at how accepting people are that cars ruin them.

Every time I go into a city centre I am astounded by the number and frequency of buses.
I lived for 5 years without a car as I lived in city centres. It was easy and quite liberating.

How are you defining city centres, again?

Your question confuses me. The centre of cities. Fairly simple concept.

Where would the boundaries be in a sample city?

pblakeney

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

kingstongraham said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Plus £20 each way for the taxi. Plus all the taxi use to ferry my stroke stricken MIL.


ooooooor £30 in petrol.

We've done this before. You weren't even aware you could get a Friends and Family card which knocks off a chunk of the cost. Seems a pretty easy journey from Cambridge to Doncaster via Peterborough. Also, your car isn't free, you need to price in insurance, tax and the cost of buying it.

Firstly, the journey doesn't end at the train station and there is no public transport from there to the final destination.

Car was £4k, cash.

Insurance is £200 a year.

Tax is basically zero because it's such a small engine. Something like £8 a year.

Just for those journeys alone it pays for itself in 2/3 years. I've had the car for 5.

Ergo thread done.

Why should someone have to own and store a car all year for just those journeys?

Apparently it is cheaper and more convenient than using public transport.

It is never going to be more convenient for those journeys, but the owning of the vehicle also makes it more cost effective for other journeys. And then because it is cost effective due to the removal of the fixed cost element, it becomes the default when it shouldn't be.

Which is why the car will remain the default for those outside a city centre and this thread can end. Unless someone has actual cost effective proposals past "things must change".

How are you defining city centre to reach that conclusion?

Every time I go to other cities, I'm staggered at how bad public transport is, and every time I go to towns, I'm amazed at how accepting people are that cars ruin them.

Every time I go into a city centre I am astounded by the number and frequency of buses.
I lived for 5 years without a car as I lived in city centres. It was easy and quite liberating.

How are you defining city centres, again?

Your question confuses me. The centre of cities. Fairly simple concept.

Where would the boundaries be in a sample city?

Google.

rick_chasey

Will they ever run the train service I use on time on a Wednesday?
So far in 23 it’s a no.

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Plus £20 each way for the taxi. Plus all the taxi use to ferry my stroke stricken MIL.


ooooooor £30 in petrol.

We've done this before. You weren't even aware you could get a Friends and Family card which knocks off a chunk of the cost. Seems a pretty easy journey from Cambridge to Doncaster via Peterborough. Also, your car isn't free, you need to price in insurance, tax and the cost of buying it.

Firstly, the journey doesn't end at the train station and there is no public transport from there to the final destination.

Car was £4k, cash.

Insurance is £200 a year.

Tax is basically zero because it's such a small engine. Something like £8 a year.

Just for those journeys alone it pays for itself in 2/3 years. I've had the car for 5.

Conclusion: cars are a really good option to get you where you want to go. That's why people use them.

Public transport cannot hope to replace them.