The Big 'Let's sell our cars and take buses/ebikes instead' thread (warning: probably very dull)
Comments
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My missus has to take her elderly Dad down to Eastbourne next month, she's doing it by train from East Croydon which is a no brainer - £7.90 return each and 1 hour 7 mins there, It'll take twice as long by car and certainly will cost more and be far more stressfull to drive.Stevo_666 said:
Conclusion: cars are a really good option to get you where you want to go. That's why people use them.
Public transport cannot hope to replace them.
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Whereas, we're they going to Seaford 3 miles away, it would take an extra 2 hours via the fortnightly bus.rakkor said:
My missus has to take her elderly Dad down to Eastbourne next month, she's doing it by train from East Croydon which is a no brainer - £7.90 return each and 1 hour 7 mins there, It'll take twice as long by car and certainly will cost more and be far more stressfull to drive.Stevo_666 said:
Conclusion: cars are a really good option to get you where you want to go. That's why people use them.
Public transport cannot hope to replace them.
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Tories break things in the hope that people give up on all these terribly leftie socialist things such as reliable public transport, the BBC, the NHS, competent government...0
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No, they'd take a cab from the station, still cheaper and quicker than drivingFirst.Aspect said:
Whereas, we're they going to Seaford 3 miles away, it would take an extra 2 hours via the fortnightly bus.
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Awesome.rakkor said:
No, they'd take a cab from the station, still cheaper and quicker than drivingFirst.Aspect said:
Whereas, we're they going to Seaford 3 miles away, it would take an extra 2 hours via the fortnightly bus.
Can you tell me how to get from Melrose to Peebles?0 -
First.Aspect said:
Awesome.rakkor said:
No, they'd take a cab from the station, still cheaper and quicker than drivingFirst.Aspect said:
Whereas, we're they going to Seaford 3 miles away, it would take an extra 2 hours via the fortnightly bus.
Can you tell me how to get from Melrose to Peebles?
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Awesome, that's only twice the time to drive, plus the half hour or so walk each end, if you are lucky where in town you live. There's not even a cab company nearby so walking is fine.rjsterry said:First.Aspect said:
Awesome.rakkor said:
No, they'd take a cab from the station, still cheaper and quicker than drivingFirst.Aspect said:
Whereas, we're they going to Seaford 3 miles away, it would take an extra 2 hours via the fortnightly bus.
Can you tell me how to get from Melrose to Peebles?
Thanks so much. The car is on auto trader as we speak because my time is free.0 -
Hour (at least) quicker than driving on a recent work trip to Glasgow (which conveniently was during the worlds). Also two tickets probably cost the same as the diesel would have (and then city centre parking etc).rakkor said:
My missus has to take her elderly Dad down to Eastbourne next month, she's doing it by train from East Croydon which is a no brainer - £7.90 return each and 1 hour 7 mins there, It'll take twice as long by car and certainly will cost more and be far more stressfull to drive.Stevo_666 said:
Conclusion: cars are a really good option to get you where you want to go. That's why people use them.
Public transport cannot hope to replace them.
Plus you're not facing a full work day followed by a 6 hour drive.
Public transport (crossrail) also worked great for getting to the cricket at the Oval last weekend.
Little worse for getting back with the strikes...
Of course for some journeys a car will win out. But for plenty of journeys it's the opposite.1 -
Google tells me the centre of Cardiff is predominantly the shopping streets and the civic centre.pblakeney said:
Google.kingstongraham said:
Where would the boundaries be in a sample city?pblakeney said:
Your question confuses me. The centre of cities. Fairly simple concept.kingstongraham said:
How are you defining city centres, again?pblakeney said:
Every time I go into a city centre I am astounded by the number and frequency of buses.kingstongraham said:
How are you defining city centre to reach that conclusion?pblakeney said:
Which is why the car will remain the default for those outside a city centre and this thread can end. Unless someone has actual cost effective proposals past "things must change".kingstongraham said:
It is never going to be more convenient for those journeys, but the owning of the vehicle also makes it more cost effective for other journeys. And then because it is cost effective due to the removal of the fixed cost element, it becomes the default when it shouldn't be.pblakeney said:
Apparently it is cheaper and more convenient than using public transport.kingstongraham said:
Why should someone have to own and store a car all year for just those journeys?pblakeney said:
Ergo thread done.rick_chasey said:
Firstly, the journey doesn't end at the train station and there is no public transport from there to the final destination.TheBigBean said:
We've done this before. You weren't even aware you could get a Friends and Family card which knocks off a chunk of the cost. Seems a pretty easy journey from Cambridge to Doncaster via Peterborough. Also, your car isn't free, you need to price in insurance, tax and the cost of buying it.rick_chasey said:
Plus £20 each way for the taxi. Plus all the taxi use to ferry my stroke stricken MIL.
ooooooor £30 in petrol.
Car was £4k, cash.
Insurance is £200 a year.
Tax is basically zero because it's such a small engine. Something like £8 a year.
Just for those journeys alone it pays for itself in 2/3 years. I've had the car for 5.
Every time I go to other cities, I'm staggered at how bad public transport is, and every time I go to towns, I'm amazed at how accepting people are that cars ruin them.
I lived for 5 years without a car as I lived in city centres. It was easy and quite liberating.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff_city_centre
If that's what you mean, it's not what I'm talking about when I mean cities having bad public transport. I mean all the areas around that.
I don't think I live in a city centre, but my default means of transport around the urban area is not car.0 -
Thanks for confirming my point. If you live in the sticks you need a car, if you live in an urban area you might need a car, if you live in a city centre you do not need a car.kingstongraham said:
Google tells me the centre of Cardiff is predominantly the shopping streets and the civic centre.pblakeney said:
Google.kingstongraham said:
Where would the boundaries be in a sample city?pblakeney said:
Your question confuses me. The centre of cities. Fairly simple concept.kingstongraham said:
How are you defining city centres, again?pblakeney said:
Every time I go into a city centre I am astounded by the number and frequency of buses.kingstongraham said:
How are you defining city centre to reach that conclusion?pblakeney said:
Which is why the car will remain the default for those outside a city centre and this thread can end. Unless someone has actual cost effective proposals past "things must change".kingstongraham said:
It is never going to be more convenient for those journeys, but the owning of the vehicle also makes it more cost effective for other journeys. And then because it is cost effective due to the removal of the fixed cost element, it becomes the default when it shouldn't be.pblakeney said:
Apparently it is cheaper and more convenient than using public transport.kingstongraham said:
Why should someone have to own and store a car all year for just those journeys?pblakeney said:
Ergo thread done.rick_chasey said:
Firstly, the journey doesn't end at the train station and there is no public transport from there to the final destination.TheBigBean said:
We've done this before. You weren't even aware you could get a Friends and Family card which knocks off a chunk of the cost. Seems a pretty easy journey from Cambridge to Doncaster via Peterborough. Also, your car isn't free, you need to price in insurance, tax and the cost of buying it.rick_chasey said:
Plus £20 each way for the taxi. Plus all the taxi use to ferry my stroke stricken MIL.
ooooooor £30 in petrol.
Car was £4k, cash.
Insurance is £200 a year.
Tax is basically zero because it's such a small engine. Something like £8 a year.
Just for those journeys alone it pays for itself in 2/3 years. I've had the car for 5.
Every time I go to other cities, I'm staggered at how bad public transport is, and every time I go to towns, I'm amazed at how accepting people are that cars ruin them.
I lived for 5 years without a car as I lived in city centres. It was easy and quite liberating.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff_city_centre
If that's what you mean, it's not what I'm talking about when I mean cities having bad public transport. I mean all the areas around that.
I don't think I live in a city centre, but my default means of transport around the urban area is not car.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
It can work where the public transport fixed collection and drop off points are near where you live and want to go. And you're not trying to transport loads of stuff or travel at times when PT isn't running etc. Otherwise it's a bit s**t.rakkor said:
My missus has to take her elderly Dad down to Eastbourne next month, she's doing it by train from East Croydon which is a no brainer - £7.90 return each and 1 hour 7 mins there, It'll take twice as long by car and certainly will cost more and be far more stressfull to drive.Stevo_666 said:
Conclusion: cars are a really good option to get you where you want to go. That's why people use them.
Public transport cannot hope to replace them."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Unless you want to go somewhere else, I suppose.pblakeney said:
Thanks for confirming my point. If you live in the sticks you need a car, if you live in an urban area you might need a car, if you live in a city centre you do not need a car.kingstongraham said:
Google tells me the centre of Cardiff is predominantly the shopping streets and the civic centre.pblakeney said:
Google.kingstongraham said:
Where would the boundaries be in a sample city?pblakeney said:
Your question confuses me. The centre of cities. Fairly simple concept.kingstongraham said:
How are you defining city centres, again?pblakeney said:
Every time I go into a city centre I am astounded by the number and frequency of buses.kingstongraham said:
How are you defining city centre to reach that conclusion?pblakeney said:
Which is why the car will remain the default for those outside a city centre and this thread can end. Unless someone has actual cost effective proposals past "things must change".kingstongraham said:
It is never going to be more convenient for those journeys, but the owning of the vehicle also makes it more cost effective for other journeys. And then because it is cost effective due to the removal of the fixed cost element, it becomes the default when it shouldn't be.pblakeney said:
Apparently it is cheaper and more convenient than using public transport.kingstongraham said:
Why should someone have to own and store a car all year for just those journeys?pblakeney said:
Ergo thread done.rick_chasey said:
Firstly, the journey doesn't end at the train station and there is no public transport from there to the final destination.TheBigBean said:
We've done this before. You weren't even aware you could get a Friends and Family card which knocks off a chunk of the cost. Seems a pretty easy journey from Cambridge to Doncaster via Peterborough. Also, your car isn't free, you need to price in insurance, tax and the cost of buying it.rick_chasey said:
Plus £20 each way for the taxi. Plus all the taxi use to ferry my stroke stricken MIL.
ooooooor £30 in petrol.
Car was £4k, cash.
Insurance is £200 a year.
Tax is basically zero because it's such a small engine. Something like £8 a year.
Just for those journeys alone it pays for itself in 2/3 years. I've had the car for 5.
Every time I go to other cities, I'm staggered at how bad public transport is, and every time I go to towns, I'm amazed at how accepting people are that cars ruin them.
I lived for 5 years without a car as I lived in city centres. It was easy and quite liberating.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff_city_centre
If that's what you mean, it's not what I'm talking about when I mean cities having bad public transport. I mean all the areas around that.
I don't think I live in a city centre, but my default means of transport around the urban area is not car.
I don't think you should need to own a car if you live in an urban area. Not that many people live in the actual city centre.0 -
Rent a car if public transport doesn't cut it for the odd weekend.kingstongraham said:
Unless you want to go somewhere else, I suppose.pblakeney said:
Thanks for confirming my point. If you live in the sticks you need a car, if you live in an urban area you might need a car, if you live in a city centre you do not need a car.kingstongraham said:
Google tells me the centre of Cardiff is predominantly the shopping streets and the civic centre.pblakeney said:
Google.kingstongraham said:
Where would the boundaries be in a sample city?pblakeney said:
Your question confuses me. The centre of cities. Fairly simple concept.kingstongraham said:
How are you defining city centres, again?pblakeney said:
Every time I go into a city centre I am astounded by the number and frequency of buses.kingstongraham said:
How are you defining city centre to reach that conclusion?pblakeney said:
Which is why the car will remain the default for those outside a city centre and this thread can end. Unless someone has actual cost effective proposals past "things must change".kingstongraham said:
It is never going to be more convenient for those journeys, but the owning of the vehicle also makes it more cost effective for other journeys. And then because it is cost effective due to the removal of the fixed cost element, it becomes the default when it shouldn't be.pblakeney said:
Apparently it is cheaper and more convenient than using public transport.kingstongraham said:
Why should someone have to own and store a car all year for just those journeys?pblakeney said:
Ergo thread done.rick_chasey said:
Firstly, the journey doesn't end at the train station and there is no public transport from there to the final destination.TheBigBean said:
We've done this before. You weren't even aware you could get a Friends and Family card which knocks off a chunk of the cost. Seems a pretty easy journey from Cambridge to Doncaster via Peterborough. Also, your car isn't free, you need to price in insurance, tax and the cost of buying it.rick_chasey said:
Plus £20 each way for the taxi. Plus all the taxi use to ferry my stroke stricken MIL.
ooooooor £30 in petrol.
Car was £4k, cash.
Insurance is £200 a year.
Tax is basically zero because it's such a small engine. Something like £8 a year.
Just for those journeys alone it pays for itself in 2/3 years. I've had the car for 5.
Every time I go to other cities, I'm staggered at how bad public transport is, and every time I go to towns, I'm amazed at how accepting people are that cars ruin them.
I lived for 5 years without a car as I lived in city centres. It was easy and quite liberating.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff_city_centre
If that's what you mean, it's not what I'm talking about when I mean cities having bad public transport. I mean all the areas around that.
I don't think I live in a city centre, but my default means of transport around the urban area is not car.
I don't think you should need to own a car if you live in an urban area. Not that many people live in the actual city centre.
Last check of central London there was over 1.5m, but generally we agree.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
But how do you get to the car hire depot?!!!pblakeney said:
Rent a car if public transport doesn't cut it for the odd weekend.kingstongraham said:
Unless you want to go somewhere else, I suppose.pblakeney said:
Thanks for confirming my point. If you live in the sticks you need a car, if you live in an urban area you might need a car, if you live in a city centre you do not need a car.kingstongraham said:
Google tells me the centre of Cardiff is predominantly the shopping streets and the civic centre.pblakeney said:
Google.kingstongraham said:
Where would the boundaries be in a sample city?pblakeney said:
Your question confuses me. The centre of cities. Fairly simple concept.kingstongraham said:
How are you defining city centres, again?pblakeney said:
Every time I go into a city centre I am astounded by the number and frequency of buses.kingstongraham said:
How are you defining city centre to reach that conclusion?pblakeney said:
Which is why the car will remain the default for those outside a city centre and this thread can end. Unless someone has actual cost effective proposals past "things must change".kingstongraham said:
It is never going to be more convenient for those journeys, but the owning of the vehicle also makes it more cost effective for other journeys. And then because it is cost effective due to the removal of the fixed cost element, it becomes the default when it shouldn't be.pblakeney said:
Apparently it is cheaper and more convenient than using public transport.kingstongraham said:
Why should someone have to own and store a car all year for just those journeys?pblakeney said:
Ergo thread done.rick_chasey said:
Firstly, the journey doesn't end at the train station and there is no public transport from there to the final destination.TheBigBean said:
We've done this before. You weren't even aware you could get a Friends and Family card which knocks off a chunk of the cost. Seems a pretty easy journey from Cambridge to Doncaster via Peterborough. Also, your car isn't free, you need to price in insurance, tax and the cost of buying it.rick_chasey said:
Plus £20 each way for the taxi. Plus all the taxi use to ferry my stroke stricken MIL.
ooooooor £30 in petrol.
Car was £4k, cash.
Insurance is £200 a year.
Tax is basically zero because it's such a small engine. Something like £8 a year.
Just for those journeys alone it pays for itself in 2/3 years. I've had the car for 5.
Every time I go to other cities, I'm staggered at how bad public transport is, and every time I go to towns, I'm amazed at how accepting people are that cars ruin them.
I lived for 5 years without a car as I lived in city centres. It was easy and quite liberating.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff_city_centre
If that's what you mean, it's not what I'm talking about when I mean cities having bad public transport. I mean all the areas around that.
I don't think I live in a city centre, but my default means of transport around the urban area is not car.
I don't think you should need to own a car if you live in an urban area. Not that many people live in the actual city centre.
Last check of central London there was over 1.5m, but generally we agree.1 -
Really? I simply walked the 1/2 mile.Dorset_Boy said:
But how do you get to the car hire depot?!!!pblakeney said:
Rent a car if public transport doesn't cut it for the odd weekend.kingstongraham said:
Unless you want to go somewhere else, I suppose.pblakeney said:
Thanks for confirming my point. If you live in the sticks you need a car, if you live in an urban area you might need a car, if you live in a city centre you do not need a car.kingstongraham said:
Google tells me the centre of Cardiff is predominantly the shopping streets and the civic centre.pblakeney said:
Google.kingstongraham said:
Where would the boundaries be in a sample city?pblakeney said:
Your question confuses me. The centre of cities. Fairly simple concept.kingstongraham said:
How are you defining city centres, again?pblakeney said:
Every time I go into a city centre I am astounded by the number and frequency of buses.kingstongraham said:
How are you defining city centre to reach that conclusion?pblakeney said:
Which is why the car will remain the default for those outside a city centre and this thread can end. Unless someone has actual cost effective proposals past "things must change".kingstongraham said:
It is never going to be more convenient for those journeys, but the owning of the vehicle also makes it more cost effective for other journeys. And then because it is cost effective due to the removal of the fixed cost element, it becomes the default when it shouldn't be.pblakeney said:
Apparently it is cheaper and more convenient than using public transport.kingstongraham said:
Why should someone have to own and store a car all year for just those journeys?pblakeney said:
Ergo thread done.rick_chasey said:
Firstly, the journey doesn't end at the train station and there is no public transport from there to the final destination.TheBigBean said:
We've done this before. You weren't even aware you could get a Friends and Family card which knocks off a chunk of the cost. Seems a pretty easy journey from Cambridge to Doncaster via Peterborough. Also, your car isn't free, you need to price in insurance, tax and the cost of buying it.rick_chasey said:
Plus £20 each way for the taxi. Plus all the taxi use to ferry my stroke stricken MIL.
ooooooor £30 in petrol.
Car was £4k, cash.
Insurance is £200 a year.
Tax is basically zero because it's such a small engine. Something like £8 a year.
Just for those journeys alone it pays for itself in 2/3 years. I've had the car for 5.
Every time I go to other cities, I'm staggered at how bad public transport is, and every time I go to towns, I'm amazed at how accepting people are that cars ruin them.
I lived for 5 years without a car as I lived in city centres. It was easy and quite liberating.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff_city_centre
If that's what you mean, it's not what I'm talking about when I mean cities having bad public transport. I mean all the areas around that.
I don't think I live in a city centre, but my default means of transport around the urban area is not car.
I don't think you should need to own a car if you live in an urban area. Not that many people live in the actual city centre.
Last check of central London there was over 1.5m, but generally we agree.
Walk, PT, taxi. Life is not difficult living in a city centre, plenty of options.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
They deliverDorset_Boy said:
But how do you get to the car hire depot?!!!pblakeney said:
Rent a car if public transport doesn't cut it for the odd weekend.kingstongraham said:
Unless you want to go somewhere else, I suppose.pblakeney said:
Thanks for confirming my point. If you live in the sticks you need a car, if you live in an urban area you might need a car, if you live in a city centre you do not need a car.kingstongraham said:
Google tells me the centre of Cardiff is predominantly the shopping streets and the civic centre.pblakeney said:
Google.kingstongraham said:
Where would the boundaries be in a sample city?pblakeney said:
Your question confuses me. The centre of cities. Fairly simple concept.kingstongraham said:
How are you defining city centres, again?pblakeney said:
Every time I go into a city centre I am astounded by the number and frequency of buses.kingstongraham said:
How are you defining city centre to reach that conclusion?pblakeney said:
Which is why the car will remain the default for those outside a city centre and this thread can end. Unless someone has actual cost effective proposals past "things must change".kingstongraham said:
It is never going to be more convenient for those journeys, but the owning of the vehicle also makes it more cost effective for other journeys. And then because it is cost effective due to the removal of the fixed cost element, it becomes the default when it shouldn't be.pblakeney said:
Apparently it is cheaper and more convenient than using public transport.kingstongraham said:
Why should someone have to own and store a car all year for just those journeys?pblakeney said:
Ergo thread done.rick_chasey said:
Firstly, the journey doesn't end at the train station and there is no public transport from there to the final destination.TheBigBean said:
We've done this before. You weren't even aware you could get a Friends and Family card which knocks off a chunk of the cost. Seems a pretty easy journey from Cambridge to Doncaster via Peterborough. Also, your car isn't free, you need to price in insurance, tax and the cost of buying it.rick_chasey said:
Plus £20 each way for the taxi. Plus all the taxi use to ferry my stroke stricken MIL.
ooooooor £30 in petrol.
Car was £4k, cash.
Insurance is £200 a year.
Tax is basically zero because it's such a small engine. Something like £8 a year.
Just for those journeys alone it pays for itself in 2/3 years. I've had the car for 5.
Every time I go to other cities, I'm staggered at how bad public transport is, and every time I go to towns, I'm amazed at how accepting people are that cars ruin them.
I lived for 5 years without a car as I lived in city centres. It was easy and quite liberating.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff_city_centre
If that's what you mean, it's not what I'm talking about when I mean cities having bad public transport. I mean all the areas around that.
I don't think I live in a city centre, but my default means of transport around the urban area is not car.
I don't think you should need to own a car if you live in an urban area. Not that many people live in the actual city centre.
Last check of central London there was over 1.5m, but generally we agree.0 -
Well you're lucky having a depot half a mile away (falling into RC's trap of applying his personal experiences to the general population), but I'm sure not all cities have them so conveniently located.pblakeney said:
Really? I simply walked the 1/2 mile.Dorset_Boy said:
But how do you get to the car hire depot?!!!pblakeney said:
Rent a car if public transport doesn't cut it for the odd weekend.kingstongraham said:
Unless you want to go somewhere else, I suppose.pblakeney said:
Thanks for confirming my point. If you live in the sticks you need a car, if you live in an urban area you might need a car, if you live in a city centre you do not need a car.kingstongraham said:
Google tells me the centre of Cardiff is predominantly the shopping streets and the civic centre.pblakeney said:
Google.kingstongraham said:
Where would the boundaries be in a sample city?pblakeney said:
Your question confuses me. The centre of cities. Fairly simple concept.kingstongraham said:
How are you defining city centres, again?pblakeney said:
Every time I go into a city centre I am astounded by the number and frequency of buses.kingstongraham said:
How are you defining city centre to reach that conclusion?pblakeney said:
Which is why the car will remain the default for those outside a city centre and this thread can end. Unless someone has actual cost effective proposals past "things must change".kingstongraham said:
It is never going to be more convenient for those journeys, but the owning of the vehicle also makes it more cost effective for other journeys. And then because it is cost effective due to the removal of the fixed cost element, it becomes the default when it shouldn't be.pblakeney said:
Apparently it is cheaper and more convenient than using public transport.kingstongraham said:
Why should someone have to own and store a car all year for just those journeys?pblakeney said:
Ergo thread done.rick_chasey said:
Firstly, the journey doesn't end at the train station and there is no public transport from there to the final destination.TheBigBean said:
We've done this before. You weren't even aware you could get a Friends and Family card which knocks off a chunk of the cost. Seems a pretty easy journey from Cambridge to Doncaster via Peterborough. Also, your car isn't free, you need to price in insurance, tax and the cost of buying it.rick_chasey said:
Plus £20 each way for the taxi. Plus all the taxi use to ferry my stroke stricken MIL.
ooooooor £30 in petrol.
Car was £4k, cash.
Insurance is £200 a year.
Tax is basically zero because it's such a small engine. Something like £8 a year.
Just for those journeys alone it pays for itself in 2/3 years. I've had the car for 5.
Every time I go to other cities, I'm staggered at how bad public transport is, and every time I go to towns, I'm amazed at how accepting people are that cars ruin them.
I lived for 5 years without a car as I lived in city centres. It was easy and quite liberating.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff_city_centre
If that's what you mean, it's not what I'm talking about when I mean cities having bad public transport. I mean all the areas around that.
I don't think I live in a city centre, but my default means of transport around the urban area is not car.
I don't think you should need to own a car if you live in an urban area. Not that many people live in the actual city centre.
Last check of central London there was over 1.5m, but generally we agree.
Walk, PT, taxi. Life is not difficult living in a city centre, plenty of options.
And I was being a little facetious with my comment.
0 -
Modern life is getting so lazy. 🤣Pross said:
They deliverDorset_Boy said:
But how do you get to the car hire depot?!!!pblakeney said:
Rent a car if public transport doesn't cut it for the odd weekend.kingstongraham said:
Unless you want to go somewhere else, I suppose.pblakeney said:
Thanks for confirming my point. If you live in the sticks you need a car, if you live in an urban area you might need a car, if you live in a city centre you do not need a car.kingstongraham said:
Google tells me the centre of Cardiff is predominantly the shopping streets and the civic centre.pblakeney said:
Google.kingstongraham said:
Where would the boundaries be in a sample city?pblakeney said:
Your question confuses me. The centre of cities. Fairly simple concept.kingstongraham said:
How are you defining city centres, again?pblakeney said:
Every time I go into a city centre I am astounded by the number and frequency of buses.kingstongraham said:
How are you defining city centre to reach that conclusion?pblakeney said:
Which is why the car will remain the default for those outside a city centre and this thread can end. Unless someone has actual cost effective proposals past "things must change".kingstongraham said:
It is never going to be more convenient for those journeys, but the owning of the vehicle also makes it more cost effective for other journeys. And then because it is cost effective due to the removal of the fixed cost element, it becomes the default when it shouldn't be.pblakeney said:
Apparently it is cheaper and more convenient than using public transport.kingstongraham said:
Why should someone have to own and store a car all year for just those journeys?pblakeney said:
Ergo thread done.rick_chasey said:
Firstly, the journey doesn't end at the train station and there is no public transport from there to the final destination.TheBigBean said:
We've done this before. You weren't even aware you could get a Friends and Family card which knocks off a chunk of the cost. Seems a pretty easy journey from Cambridge to Doncaster via Peterborough. Also, your car isn't free, you need to price in insurance, tax and the cost of buying it.rick_chasey said:
Plus £20 each way for the taxi. Plus all the taxi use to ferry my stroke stricken MIL.
ooooooor £30 in petrol.
Car was £4k, cash.
Insurance is £200 a year.
Tax is basically zero because it's such a small engine. Something like £8 a year.
Just for those journeys alone it pays for itself in 2/3 years. I've had the car for 5.
Every time I go to other cities, I'm staggered at how bad public transport is, and every time I go to towns, I'm amazed at how accepting people are that cars ruin them.
I lived for 5 years without a car as I lived in city centres. It was easy and quite liberating.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff_city_centre
If that's what you mean, it's not what I'm talking about when I mean cities having bad public transport. I mean all the areas around that.
I don't think I live in a city centre, but my default means of transport around the urban area is not car.
I don't think you should need to own a car if you live in an urban area. Not that many people live in the actual city centre.
Last check of central London there was over 1.5m, but generally we agree.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.1 -
In my defence, I often use personal experience as a shorthand example to illustrate the point. The point is made, and is backed up with the personal experience, not the other way around.Dorset_Boy said:
Well you're lucky having a depot half a mile away (falling into RC's trap of applying his personal experiences to the general population), but I'm sure not all cities have them so conveniently located.pblakeney said:
Really? I simply walked the 1/2 mile.Dorset_Boy said:
But how do you get to the car hire depot?!!!pblakeney said:
Rent a car if public transport doesn't cut it for the odd weekend.kingstongraham said:
Unless you want to go somewhere else, I suppose.pblakeney said:
Thanks for confirming my point. If you live in the sticks you need a car, if you live in an urban area you might need a car, if you live in a city centre you do not need a car.kingstongraham said:
Google tells me the centre of Cardiff is predominantly the shopping streets and the civic centre.pblakeney said:
Google.kingstongraham said:
Where would the boundaries be in a sample city?pblakeney said:
Your question confuses me. The centre of cities. Fairly simple concept.kingstongraham said:
How are you defining city centres, again?pblakeney said:
Every time I go into a city centre I am astounded by the number and frequency of buses.kingstongraham said:
How are you defining city centre to reach that conclusion?pblakeney said:
Which is why the car will remain the default for those outside a city centre and this thread can end. Unless someone has actual cost effective proposals past "things must change".kingstongraham said:
It is never going to be more convenient for those journeys, but the owning of the vehicle also makes it more cost effective for other journeys. And then because it is cost effective due to the removal of the fixed cost element, it becomes the default when it shouldn't be.pblakeney said:
Apparently it is cheaper and more convenient than using public transport.kingstongraham said:
Why should someone have to own and store a car all year for just those journeys?pblakeney said:
Ergo thread done.rick_chasey said:
Firstly, the journey doesn't end at the train station and there is no public transport from there to the final destination.TheBigBean said:
We've done this before. You weren't even aware you could get a Friends and Family card which knocks off a chunk of the cost. Seems a pretty easy journey from Cambridge to Doncaster via Peterborough. Also, your car isn't free, you need to price in insurance, tax and the cost of buying it.rick_chasey said:
Plus £20 each way for the taxi. Plus all the taxi use to ferry my stroke stricken MIL.
ooooooor £30 in petrol.
Car was £4k, cash.
Insurance is £200 a year.
Tax is basically zero because it's such a small engine. Something like £8 a year.
Just for those journeys alone it pays for itself in 2/3 years. I've had the car for 5.
Every time I go to other cities, I'm staggered at how bad public transport is, and every time I go to towns, I'm amazed at how accepting people are that cars ruin them.
I lived for 5 years without a car as I lived in city centres. It was easy and quite liberating.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff_city_centre
If that's what you mean, it's not what I'm talking about when I mean cities having bad public transport. I mean all the areas around that.
I don't think I live in a city centre, but my default means of transport around the urban area is not car.
I don't think you should need to own a car if you live in an urban area. Not that many people live in the actual city centre.
Last check of central London there was over 1.5m, but generally we agree.
Walk, PT, taxi. Life is not difficult living in a city centre, plenty of options.
And I was being a little facetious with my comment.0 -
In the current system that entirely depends on where you need to go.pblakeney said:
Thanks for confirming my point. If you live in the sticks you need a car, if you live in an urban area you might need a car, if you live in a city centre you do not need a car.kingstongraham said:
Google tells me the centre of Cardiff is predominantly the shopping streets and the civic centre.pblakeney said:
Google.kingstongraham said:
Where would the boundaries be in a sample city?pblakeney said:
Your question confuses me. The centre of cities. Fairly simple concept.kingstongraham said:
How are you defining city centres, again?pblakeney said:
Every time I go into a city centre I am astounded by the number and frequency of buses.kingstongraham said:
How are you defining city centre to reach that conclusion?pblakeney said:
Which is why the car will remain the default for those outside a city centre and this thread can end. Unless someone has actual cost effective proposals past "things must change".kingstongraham said:
It is never going to be more convenient for those journeys, but the owning of the vehicle also makes it more cost effective for other journeys. And then because it is cost effective due to the removal of the fixed cost element, it becomes the default when it shouldn't be.pblakeney said:
Apparently it is cheaper and more convenient than using public transport.kingstongraham said:
Why should someone have to own and store a car all year for just those journeys?pblakeney said:
Ergo thread done.rick_chasey said:
Firstly, the journey doesn't end at the train station and there is no public transport from there to the final destination.TheBigBean said:
We've done this before. You weren't even aware you could get a Friends and Family card which knocks off a chunk of the cost. Seems a pretty easy journey from Cambridge to Doncaster via Peterborough. Also, your car isn't free, you need to price in insurance, tax and the cost of buying it.rick_chasey said:
Plus £20 each way for the taxi. Plus all the taxi use to ferry my stroke stricken MIL.
ooooooor £30 in petrol.
Car was £4k, cash.
Insurance is £200 a year.
Tax is basically zero because it's such a small engine. Something like £8 a year.
Just for those journeys alone it pays for itself in 2/3 years. I've had the car for 5.
Every time I go to other cities, I'm staggered at how bad public transport is, and every time I go to towns, I'm amazed at how accepting people are that cars ruin them.
I lived for 5 years without a car as I lived in city centres. It was easy and quite liberating.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff_city_centre
If that's what you mean, it's not what I'm talking about when I mean cities having bad public transport. I mean all the areas around that.
I don't think I live in a city centre, but my default means of transport around the urban area is not car.
I can get away with using it less than 50 days a year because of where I live, but even as someone who thinks having a car is a pain in the arse, loves cycling anywhere and everywhere and commutes by train to work every day has to still use it.
Which is a good example of the problem!0 -
My bad. Should have written "If you live and work in the same city centre....".rick_chasey said:
In the current system that entirely depends on where you need to go.pblakeney said:
Thanks for confirming my point. If you live in the sticks you need a car, if you live in an urban area you might need a car, if you live in a city centre you do not need a car.kingstongraham said:
Google tells me the centre of Cardiff is predominantly the shopping streets and the civic centre.pblakeney said:
Google.kingstongraham said:
Where would the boundaries be in a sample city?pblakeney said:
Your question confuses me. The centre of cities. Fairly simple concept.kingstongraham said:
How are you defining city centres, again?pblakeney said:
Every time I go into a city centre I am astounded by the number and frequency of buses.kingstongraham said:
How are you defining city centre to reach that conclusion?pblakeney said:
Which is why the car will remain the default for those outside a city centre and this thread can end. Unless someone has actual cost effective proposals past "things must change".kingstongraham said:
It is never going to be more convenient for those journeys, but the owning of the vehicle also makes it more cost effective for other journeys. And then because it is cost effective due to the removal of the fixed cost element, it becomes the default when it shouldn't be.pblakeney said:
Apparently it is cheaper and more convenient than using public transport.kingstongraham said:
Why should someone have to own and store a car all year for just those journeys?pblakeney said:
Ergo thread done.rick_chasey said:
Firstly, the journey doesn't end at the train station and there is no public transport from there to the final destination.TheBigBean said:
We've done this before. You weren't even aware you could get a Friends and Family card which knocks off a chunk of the cost. Seems a pretty easy journey from Cambridge to Doncaster via Peterborough. Also, your car isn't free, you need to price in insurance, tax and the cost of buying it.rick_chasey said:
Plus £20 each way for the taxi. Plus all the taxi use to ferry my stroke stricken MIL.
ooooooor £30 in petrol.
Car was £4k, cash.
Insurance is £200 a year.
Tax is basically zero because it's such a small engine. Something like £8 a year.
Just for those journeys alone it pays for itself in 2/3 years. I've had the car for 5.
Every time I go to other cities, I'm staggered at how bad public transport is, and every time I go to towns, I'm amazed at how accepting people are that cars ruin them.
I lived for 5 years without a car as I lived in city centres. It was easy and quite liberating.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff_city_centre
If that's what you mean, it's not what I'm talking about when I mean cities having bad public transport. I mean all the areas around that.
I don't think I live in a city centre, but my default means of transport around the urban area is not car.
I can get away with using it less than 50 days a year because of where I live, but even as someone who thinks having a car is a pain in the censored , loves cycling anywhere and everywhere and commutes by train to work every day has to still use it.
Which is a good example of the problem!
Hiring 50 days a year is more cost effective than ownership and ultimately less hassle.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Facetious is fine. 😉Dorset_Boy said:
Well you're lucky having a depot half a mile away (falling into RC's trap of applying his personal experiences to the general population), but I'm sure not all cities have them so conveniently located.pblakeney said:
Really? I simply walked the 1/2 mile.Dorset_Boy said:
But how do you get to the car hire depot?!!!pblakeney said:
Rent a car if public transport doesn't cut it for the odd weekend.kingstongraham said:
Unless you want to go somewhere else, I suppose.pblakeney said:
Thanks for confirming my point. If you live in the sticks you need a car, if you live in an urban area you might need a car, if you live in a city centre you do not need a car.kingstongraham said:
Google tells me the centre of Cardiff is predominantly the shopping streets and the civic centre.pblakeney said:
Google.kingstongraham said:
Where would the boundaries be in a sample city?pblakeney said:
Your question confuses me. The centre of cities. Fairly simple concept.kingstongraham said:
How are you defining city centres, again?pblakeney said:
Every time I go into a city centre I am astounded by the number and frequency of buses.kingstongraham said:
How are you defining city centre to reach that conclusion?pblakeney said:
Which is why the car will remain the default for those outside a city centre and this thread can end. Unless someone has actual cost effective proposals past "things must change".kingstongraham said:
It is never going to be more convenient for those journeys, but the owning of the vehicle also makes it more cost effective for other journeys. And then because it is cost effective due to the removal of the fixed cost element, it becomes the default when it shouldn't be.pblakeney said:
Apparently it is cheaper and more convenient than using public transport.kingstongraham said:
Why should someone have to own and store a car all year for just those journeys?pblakeney said:
Ergo thread done.rick_chasey said:
Firstly, the journey doesn't end at the train station and there is no public transport from there to the final destination.TheBigBean said:
We've done this before. You weren't even aware you could get a Friends and Family card which knocks off a chunk of the cost. Seems a pretty easy journey from Cambridge to Doncaster via Peterborough. Also, your car isn't free, you need to price in insurance, tax and the cost of buying it.rick_chasey said:
Plus £20 each way for the taxi. Plus all the taxi use to ferry my stroke stricken MIL.
ooooooor £30 in petrol.
Car was £4k, cash.
Insurance is £200 a year.
Tax is basically zero because it's such a small engine. Something like £8 a year.
Just for those journeys alone it pays for itself in 2/3 years. I've had the car for 5.
Every time I go to other cities, I'm staggered at how bad public transport is, and every time I go to towns, I'm amazed at how accepting people are that cars ruin them.
I lived for 5 years without a car as I lived in city centres. It was easy and quite liberating.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff_city_centre
If that's what you mean, it's not what I'm talking about when I mean cities having bad public transport. I mean all the areas around that.
I don't think I live in a city centre, but my default means of transport around the urban area is not car.
I don't think you should need to own a car if you live in an urban area. Not that many people live in the actual city centre.
Last check of central London there was over 1.5m, but generally we agree.
Walk, PT, taxi. Life is not difficult living in a city centre, plenty of options.
And I was being a little facetious with my comment.
I also mentioned PT and taxis though. And then apparently they deliver...The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Yes but you do chose to live there. You could live in a smaller house closer to work and get rid of your car. It is just about what you are willing to put up with.rick_chasey said:
In the current system that entirely depends on where you need to go.pblakeney said:
Thanks for confirming my point. If you live in the sticks you need a car, if you live in an urban area you might need a car, if you live in a city centre you do not need a car.kingstongraham said:
Google tells me the centre of Cardiff is predominantly the shopping streets and the civic centre.pblakeney said:
Google.kingstongraham said:
Where would the boundaries be in a sample city?pblakeney said:
Your question confuses me. The centre of cities. Fairly simple concept.kingstongraham said:
How are you defining city centres, again?pblakeney said:
Every time I go into a city centre I am astounded by the number and frequency of buses.kingstongraham said:
How are you defining city centre to reach that conclusion?pblakeney said:
Which is why the car will remain the default for those outside a city centre and this thread can end. Unless someone has actual cost effective proposals past "things must change".kingstongraham said:
It is never going to be more convenient for those journeys, but the owning of the vehicle also makes it more cost effective for other journeys. And then because it is cost effective due to the removal of the fixed cost element, it becomes the default when it shouldn't be.pblakeney said:
Apparently it is cheaper and more convenient than using public transport.kingstongraham said:
Why should someone have to own and store a car all year for just those journeys?pblakeney said:
Ergo thread done.rick_chasey said:
Firstly, the journey doesn't end at the train station and there is no public transport from there to the final destination.TheBigBean said:
We've done this before. You weren't even aware you could get a Friends and Family card which knocks off a chunk of the cost. Seems a pretty easy journey from Cambridge to Doncaster via Peterborough. Also, your car isn't free, you need to price in insurance, tax and the cost of buying it.rick_chasey said:
Plus £20 each way for the taxi. Plus all the taxi use to ferry my stroke stricken MIL.
ooooooor £30 in petrol.
Car was £4k, cash.
Insurance is £200 a year.
Tax is basically zero because it's such a small engine. Something like £8 a year.
Just for those journeys alone it pays for itself in 2/3 years. I've had the car for 5.
Every time I go to other cities, I'm staggered at how bad public transport is, and every time I go to towns, I'm amazed at how accepting people are that cars ruin them.
I lived for 5 years without a car as I lived in city centres. It was easy and quite liberating.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff_city_centre
If that's what you mean, it's not what I'm talking about when I mean cities having bad public transport. I mean all the areas around that.
I don't think I live in a city centre, but my default means of transport around the urban area is not car.
I can get away with using it less than 50 days a year because of where I live, but even as someone who thinks having a car is a pain in the censored , loves cycling anywhere and everywhere and commutes by train to work every day has to still use it.
Which is a good example of the problem!1 -
lol I don't think you quite appreciate how small my house is. It can't really get any smaller and still be a house.First.Aspect said:
Yes but you do chose to live there. You could live in a smaller house closer to work and get rid of your car. It is just about what you are willing to put up with.
And I'd still need a car anyway for where I need to get to.
How's your house choice working out for your sustainable travel?0 -
Meh. The point is that it's naive to think you can uninvent the car. Or reengineer a country to avoid the need or attraction of having one.
In which case some policies to reduce car use can be argued to be all stick and no carrot.
I tend more towards policies that encourage choice. Such as smaller cars, more efficient cars, electric cars. But not those that artificially encourage people to dispose of cars and get new ones. The most environmentally friendly thing you can still do while owning a car is to use the one you already have (broadly speaking).0 -
I don't think we're disagreeing on this point.First.Aspect said:Meh. The point is that it's naive to think you can uninvent the car. Or reengineer a country to avoid the need or attraction of having one.
In which case some policies to reduce car use can be argued to be all stick and no carrot.
I tend more towards policies that encourage choice. Such as smaller cars, more efficient cars, electric cars. But not those that artificially encourage people to dispose of cars and get new ones. The most environmentally friendly thing you can still do while owning a car is to use the one you already have (broadly speaking).
The problem is that providing choice means undoing a decade of under-investment into non-private car travel (read cycle infrastructure and public transport) and *then* increasing investment to add a much more thorough network.
However, that plan, even if they started it tomorrow, would take around about a decade or two to have an effect, and to be really effective you would need around a 50 year horizon to also reorganise villages towns and cities around transport (which is always happening naturally anyway).
So in the shorter term, given how many short journeys are unnecessarily taken by cars, you can at least try to disincentivise the most egregious car use, both in terms of the emissions of the car and how appropriate it is to use the car for the journey.
London in general has a pretty effective public transport system so there are often genuine alternatives to private car travel.
The most effective complaint here in Cambridge about the congestion charge is that the public transport system, which let's be real is just busses, has been absolutely gutted since 2010 and so there are no real alternatives.0 -
I think, as with most things in life, it is all about a bit of balance and compromise. I drive but own a small car and only use it when necessary (shopping, trips away etc.). If people owned the car they actually required i.e. if you live in a city and just take short trips you don't need a Range Rover, used it only when it was needed, and looked at the amount of cars per household (go around my estate and you will regularly see houses with 3-4+ cars on the drive) then my guess would be you would dramatically improve congestion, pollution and other infrastructure issues caused by too many (and the wrong kind) of cars constantly on the roads.
I completely agree though, that to support this, you also require a working public transport infrastructure to enable people to use their cars less.
0 -
You didn’t have to stay near London, you could have moved to many other Cities with much better commuter support. You kind of made your bed.rick_chasey said:
lol I don't think you quite appreciate how small my house is. It can't really get any smaller and still be a house.First.Aspect said:
Yes but you do chose to live there. You could live in a smaller house closer to work and get rid of your car. It is just about what you are willing to put up with.
And I'd still need a car anyway for where I need to get to.
How's your house choice working out for your sustainable travel?
I know it ain't right or fair (it should be better) but it's not and that's life. Debating it isn't going to change that fact.0 -
SUVs, just crazy really a vehicle which is clearly producing more drag. Estate cars? What was wrong with them. It's just because they're a lofty tank feeling status vehicle and is that a good thing?First.Aspect said:Meh. The point is that it's naive to think you can uninvent the car. Or reengineer a country to avoid the need or attraction of having one.
In which case some policies to reduce car use can be argued to be all stick and no carrot.
I tend more towards policies that encourage choice. Such as smaller cars, more efficient cars, electric cars. But not those that artificially encourage people to dispose of cars and get new ones. The most environmentally friendly thing you can still do while owning a car is to use the one you already have (broadly speaking).0 -
Ooooo! That's going to kill Cakestop. 🤣focuszing723 said:
You didn’t have to stay near London, you could have moved to many other Cities with much better commuter support. You kind of made your bed.rick_chasey said:
lol I don't think you quite appreciate how small my house is. It can't really get any smaller and still be a house.First.Aspect said:
Yes but you do chose to live there. You could live in a smaller house closer to work and get rid of your car. It is just about what you are willing to put up with.
And I'd still need a car anyway for where I need to get to.
How's your house choice working out for your sustainable travel?
I know it ain't right or fair (it should be better) but it's not and that's life. Debating it isn't going to change that fact.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.2
