Dog owners (rant)

bikes_and_dogs

dabber said:

bikes_and_dogs said:

dabber said:

Had a dog come out of nowhere and try to attack my leg and ankle on this morning's ride. A kick in the head stopped it and started it yelping. No sign of the owner just a disembodied, ineffectual voice calling it from somewhere in the forest.

You sound quite proud of yourself for kicking a dog in the head and causing it to yelp. Just for the record - How much harm did you suffer from the attempted attack?

If you think I'm going to wait until the dog has actually managed to sink its teeth into me before I act you're crazy. I've been attacked in a similar way before and acted just the same. I don't dislike dogs but I put my safety and wellbeing way above any dog.

I am happy for you to defend in whichever reasonable way you see fit. I sense that you enjoyed winning. Carry on getting your retaliation first, I'm sure it will lead to some lovely rides.
I missed the bit about how much harm you suffered.

ddraver

Again, out of interest, if I ran up to you snarling and shouting that I was going to thump you, swung but stopped my fist just off of your nose.

How would you react?

If my mate giggled and said, "Oh it's ok, he'll just lick you"

What would you say to my friend?

pinno

What if said dog had manged either directly or indirectly, caused Jabber to come off his bike?

It's a pity he had to kick the dog but what was he supposed to do? ...and there's nothing to suggest he got vicarious pleasure from it.

bonk_king

If a dog chased me whilst I was out on a ride, I'd do more than try and kick it, trust me, especially if it actually bit me. And if I heard the fecking owner shouting of it after their damn mutt had try to assault me, I'd wrap their fecking dog lead round their necks. Jesus christ, what's wrong with some of you people.

rick_chasey

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

What’s he supposed to do? Ask nicely to sort biting his leg?

Dogs that bite people should be put down, simple.

Won’t be doing it again then will they?

What a shitty thing to say.

Other bitey animals we don’t invite into society at close proximity, with good reason.

Deaths by dog attacks are roughly at the same rate as pedestrians killed by cyclists fwiw.

pangolin

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

What’s he supposed to do? Ask nicely to sort biting his leg?

Dogs that bite people should be put down, simple.

Won’t be doing it again then will they?

What a shitty thing to say.

I don't think this is a very controversial view. Nobody is saying this applies to most dogs, or even a lot of dogs.

pinno

Putting the dog down doesn't really punish the owner.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

What’s he supposed to do? Ask nicely to sort biting his leg?

Dogs that bite people should be put down, simple.

Won’t be doing it again then will they?

What a shitty thing to say.

Other bitey animals we don’t invite into society at close proximity, with good reason.

Deaths by dog attacks are roughly at the same rate as pedestrians killed by cyclists fwiw.

Horses.

dabber

Let me put my ride into perspective a bit more. Earlier on my ride I came across a man and woman walking through the trees alongside the singletrack trail I was riding, I slowed down a bit as I saw them and we exchanged "hellos". As I moved past them round a bend I found that their dog was walking on the trail immediately ahead of me. I'd speeded up by then but immediately slowed right down. The dog carried on but started to run with a worried look on its face. I slowed down some more to give it some space and not frighten it. As soon as the trail opened up just a bit it ran off to the side and passed carefully by. No harm done to anyone. I don't hate dogs but I'm not offering myself up as piece of meat to be bitten by them.

Back to the incident. This dog had run out of the trees into the fireroad I was on gently riding home after about 90 minutes quite strong exertion riding singletrack.
It immediately started what I would call serious barking at me. As I continued it circled behind me and came rushing towards my right leg... this time it was snarling and its teeth were bared. I saw this as I was keeping it in view as I had a premonition it was going to attack. Fortunately, as it made its lunge for my leg I was able to lift my leg up high and I then made a stamping movement as hard as I could with the solid sole of MTB shoe onto the dog's head, face, snout whatever, I never saw what it actually made contact with but I felt a hard impact. The dog immediately stopped, yelped and dropped away and never returned. So in my earlier post I was wrong in saying that I kicked it. In fact I stamped on it which illustrates that the dog must have been really close to my leg.
Although I could hear the owner's voice somewhere in the trees I never saw them. I would have gone after them but wasn't about to enter a fairly heavily wooded area with another potential attack from the dog.

Am I proud that I did it. No, proud isn't the right word. I'm pleased that I took the right action (in this case) to protect myself and not get hurt. And I'm certainly not ashamed.

orraloon

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

What’s he supposed to do? Ask nicely to sort biting his leg?

Dogs that bite people should be put down, simple.

Won’t be doing it again then will they?

What a shitty thing to say.

Other bitey animals we don’t invite into society at close proximity, with good reason.

Deaths by dog attacks are roughly at the same rate as pedestrians killed by cyclists fwiw.

A quick browse of UK stats shows pedestrian deaths involving cyclists roughly equates with deaths by dog attack. However, cause of death not defined. How many humans died because of an attack by a cyclist vs an attack by a dog do you reckon?

pinno

dabber said:

Am I proud that I did it. No, proud isn't the right word. I'm pleased that I took the right action (in this case) to protect myself and not get hurt. And I'm certainly not ashamed.

Unfortunate that you had to do that but I don't see what you did wrong.

dabber

pinno said:

dabber said:

Am I proud that I did it. No, proud isn't the right word. I'm pleased that I took the right action (in this case) to protect myself and not get hurt. And I'm certainly not ashamed.

Unfortunate that you had to do that but I don't see what you did wrong.

Thank you. I never went out looking for a fight with a dog, that's the last thing I wanted. The dog came at me looking for "a spot of bother".

DeVlaeminck

What breed of dog was it ?

dabber

DeVlaeminck said:

What breed of dog was it ?

I've no idea, it was about 60cm high as far as I can remember and black. This whole episode must have been over in under a minute.... probably quite a bit less.

mrb123

DeVlaeminck said:

What breed of dog was it ?

dabber

In direct reply to "bikes and dogs" comments
"I am happy for you to defend in whichever reasonable way you see fit. I sense that you enjoyed winning. Carry on getting your retaliation first, I'm sure it will lead to some lovely rides.
I missed the bit about how much harm you suffered."

Firstly, I don't need your approval on how I acted.
There was no "winning".... I simply acted in a way that I hoped (and this was pretty much a reflex action as it all happened quite quickly) would protect me and stop me getting injured. As it turned out that is exactly what happened.
And as you seem to keep asking me what harm I suffered.... none, other than an elevated heart rate.
You seem to be suggesting that I shouldn't have taken any action and just let myself get bitten... perhaps once I'd let that happen you'd be more happy in me then trying to defend myself.
As to your point about "I'm sure it will lead to some lovely rides. ".... I ride all the time, I encounter dogs all the time, the majority of the time we get on absolutely fine, give and take. I don't go looking for fights with dogs, people, anyone.

ddraver

B&D is avoiding my questions I suspect because he knows either case is totally, comically unacceptable.

FWIW - If my dog had quietly barked at dabber I would be mortified. If it ran up to him, next level. If she tried to bite someone I would never let her off the lead again.

That is what being a responsible dog owner is. It's actually not very difficult.

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

What’s he supposed to do? Ask nicely to sort biting his leg?

Dogs that bite people should be put down, simple.

Won’t be doing it again then will they?

What a shitty thing to say.

Other bitey animals we don’t invite into society at close proximity, with good reason.

Deaths by dog attacks are roughly at the same rate as pedestrians killed by cyclists fwiw.

So you're going to advocate the death penalty for cyclists who kill pedestrians then?

The minority of dogs who display aggressive tendencies are usually like that because they have been mistreated (or maybe trained to be like that) by humans. They are also often capable of learning how to behave differently. While clearly there are cases where a dog should be put down, to condemn any dog to death any time it bites anyone is just wrong. IMHO.

Pross

I have to agree with Stevo on this. It sounds like Dabber’s experience was fear aggression by the dog. The owner presumably knows the dog is like that with bikes (and possibly other perceived threats) so should have the dog under control. The owner is the one that should face the consequences rather than the dog.

Stevo_666

Pross said:

I have to agree with Stevo on this. It sounds like Dabber’s experience was fear aggression by the dog. The owner presumably knows the dog is like that with bikes (and possibly other perceived threats) so should have the dog under control. The owner is the one that should face the consequences rather than the dog.

And I agree with you that where an owner knows that a dog behaves in a certain way towards people, bikes or whatever, then they should be kept on a leash wherever they might come across them. And to take responsibility if something happens.

Stevo_666

Double post.

bikes_and_dogs

dabber said:

Let me put my ride into perspective a bit more. Earlier on my ride I came across a man and woman walking through the trees alongside the singletrack trail I was riding, I slowed down a bit as I saw them and we exchanged "hellos". As I moved past them round a bend I found that their dog was walking on the trail immediately ahead of me. I'd speeded up by then but immediately slowed right down. The dog carried on but started to run with a worried look on its face. I slowed down some more to give it some space and not frighten it. As soon as the trail opened up just a bit it ran off to the side and passed carefully by. No harm done to anyone. I don't hate dogs but I'm not offering myself up as piece of meat to be bitten by them.

Back to the incident. This dog had run out of the trees into the fireroad I was on gently riding home after about 90 minutes quite strong exertion riding singletrack.
It immediately started what I would call serious barking at me. As I continued it circled behind me and came rushing towards my right leg... this time it was snarling and its teeth were bared. I saw this as I was keeping it in view as I had a premonition it was going to attack. Fortunately, as it made its lunge for my leg I was able to lift my leg up high and I then made a stamping movement as hard as I could with the solid sole of MTB shoe onto the dog's head, face, snout whatever, I never saw what it actually made contact with but I felt a hard impact. The dog immediately stopped, yelped and dropped away and never returned. So in my earlier post I was wrong in saying that I kicked it. In fact I stamped on it which illustrates that the dog must have been really close to my leg.
Although I could hear the owner's voice somewhere in the trees I never saw them. I would have gone after them but wasn't about to enter a fairly heavily wooded area with another potential attack from the dog.

Am I proud that I did it. No, proud isn't the right word. I'm pleased that I took the right action (in this case) to protect myself and not get hurt. And I'm certainly not ashamed.

Fair point well put.
FWIW - I have been chased by a number of barking dogs, I watch where I'm going and keep on pedalling. Maybe I've been lucky - The dog quickly gives up, I don't get bitten and I don't crash. Apologies for my cynicism, I saw "kick in the head" and felt that it shouldn't go unchallenged.

dabber

bikes_and_dogs said:

dabber said:

Let me put my ride into perspective a bit more. Earlier on my ride I came across a man and woman walking through the trees alongside the singletrack trail I was riding, I slowed down a bit as I saw them and we exchanged "hellos". As I moved past them round a bend I found that their dog was walking on the trail immediately ahead of me. I'd speeded up by then but immediately slowed right down. The dog carried on but started to run with a worried look on its face. I slowed down some more to give it some space and not frighten it. As soon as the trail opened up just a bit it ran off to the side and passed carefully by. No harm done to anyone. I don't hate dogs but I'm not offering myself up as piece of meat to be bitten by them.

Back to the incident. This dog had run out of the trees into the fireroad I was on gently riding home after about 90 minutes quite strong exertion riding singletrack.
It immediately started what I would call serious barking at me. As I continued it circled behind me and came rushing towards my right leg... this time it was snarling and its teeth were bared. I saw this as I was keeping it in view as I had a premonition it was going to attack. Fortunately, as it made its lunge for my leg I was able to lift my leg up high and I then made a stamping movement as hard as I could with the solid sole of MTB shoe onto the dog's head, face, snout whatever, I never saw what it actually made contact with but I felt a hard impact. The dog immediately stopped, yelped and dropped away and never returned. So in my earlier post I was wrong in saying that I kicked it. In fact I stamped on it which illustrates that the dog must have been really close to my leg.
Although I could hear the owner's voice somewhere in the trees I never saw them. I would have gone after them but wasn't about to enter a fairly heavily wooded area with another potential attack from the dog.

Am I proud that I did it. No, proud isn't the right word. I'm pleased that I took the right action (in this case) to protect myself and not get hurt. And I'm certainly not ashamed.

Fair point well put.
FWIW - I have been chased by a number of barking dogs, I watch where I'm going and keep on pedalling. Maybe I've been lucky - The dog quickly gives up, I don't get bitten and I don't crash. Apologies for my cynicism, I saw "kick in the head" and felt that it shouldn't go unchallenged.

Thanks for coming back on this and your apology bikes_and_dogs. Each situation like this is different. Like you, I've had times when I've just kept going and got away.
However, this time there was no opportunity for that. The dog was already very close to me as it just dashed out of the trees, I was quite tired after my off road riding and was riding a full suspension mtb with trail tyres so I wouldn't have got away and it almost immediately made a savage attempted attack.
But enough of this. Thanks for getting back, I appreciate it.

pinno

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNC0kIzM1Fo

Pross

dabber said:

bikes_and_dogs said:

dabber said:

Let me put my ride into perspective a bit more. Earlier on my ride I came across a man and woman walking through the trees alongside the singletrack trail I was riding, I slowed down a bit as I saw them and we exchanged "hellos". As I moved past them round a bend I found that their dog was walking on the trail immediately ahead of me. I'd speeded up by then but immediately slowed right down. The dog carried on but started to run with a worried look on its face. I slowed down some more to give it some space and not frighten it. As soon as the trail opened up just a bit it ran off to the side and passed carefully by. No harm done to anyone. I don't hate dogs but I'm not offering myself up as piece of meat to be bitten by them.

Back to the incident. This dog had run out of the trees into the fireroad I was on gently riding home after about 90 minutes quite strong exertion riding singletrack.
It immediately started what I would call serious barking at me. As I continued it circled behind me and came rushing towards my right leg... this time it was snarling and its teeth were bared. I saw this as I was keeping it in view as I had a premonition it was going to attack. Fortunately, as it made its lunge for my leg I was able to lift my leg up high and I then made a stamping movement as hard as I could with the solid sole of MTB shoe onto the dog's head, face, snout whatever, I never saw what it actually made contact with but I felt a hard impact. The dog immediately stopped, yelped and dropped away and never returned. So in my earlier post I was wrong in saying that I kicked it. In fact I stamped on it which illustrates that the dog must have been really close to my leg.
Although I could hear the owner's voice somewhere in the trees I never saw them. I would have gone after them but wasn't about to enter a fairly heavily wooded area with another potential attack from the dog.

Am I proud that I did it. No, proud isn't the right word. I'm pleased that I took the right action (in this case) to protect myself and not get hurt. And I'm certainly not ashamed.

Fair point well put.
FWIW - I have been chased by a number of barking dogs, I watch where I'm going and keep on pedalling. Maybe I've been lucky - The dog quickly gives up, I don't get bitten and I don't crash. Apologies for my cynicism, I saw "kick in the head" and felt that it shouldn't go unchallenged.

Thanks for coming back on this and your apology bikes_and_dogs. Each situation like this is different. Like you, I've had times when I've just kept going and got away.
However, this time there was no opportunity for that. The dog was already very close to me as it just dashed out of the trees, I was quite tired after my off road riding and was riding a full suspension mtb with trail tyres so I wouldn't have got away and it almost immediately made a savage attempted attack.
But enough of this. Thanks for getting back, I appreciate it.

FWIW when I used to cycle to work I used to regularly see a woman walking a Schnauzer off the lead on the cycleway and it plainly disliked / was frightened of bikes. Every time she would be frantically trying to get the dog back when she saw me approach as though the last thing she expected to see on a cycleway was a cyclist.

One morning the dog had got ahead of her more than usual and it started running towards me. I unclipped but wasn’t going to be able to stop in time so used my foot to fend it off as otherwise it was going for my chainset and we were both going to end up hurt. The owner started gobbing off totally oblivious that I’d saved her dog from likely serious injury and, potentially, a large vets bill.

briantrumpet

Pross said:

dabber said:

bikes_and_dogs said:

dabber said:

Let me put my ride into perspective a bit more. Earlier on my ride I came across a man and woman walking through the trees alongside the singletrack trail I was riding, I slowed down a bit as I saw them and we exchanged "hellos". As I moved past them round a bend I found that their dog was walking on the trail immediately ahead of me. I'd speeded up by then but immediately slowed right down. The dog carried on but started to run with a worried look on its face. I slowed down some more to give it some space and not frighten it. As soon as the trail opened up just a bit it ran off to the side and passed carefully by. No harm done to anyone. I don't hate dogs but I'm not offering myself up as piece of meat to be bitten by them.

Back to the incident. This dog had run out of the trees into the fireroad I was on gently riding home after about 90 minutes quite strong exertion riding singletrack.
It immediately started what I would call serious barking at me. As I continued it circled behind me and came rushing towards my right leg... this time it was snarling and its teeth were bared. I saw this as I was keeping it in view as I had a premonition it was going to attack. Fortunately, as it made its lunge for my leg I was able to lift my leg up high and I then made a stamping movement as hard as I could with the solid sole of MTB shoe onto the dog's head, face, snout whatever, I never saw what it actually made contact with but I felt a hard impact. The dog immediately stopped, yelped and dropped away and never returned. So in my earlier post I was wrong in saying that I kicked it. In fact I stamped on it which illustrates that the dog must have been really close to my leg.
Although I could hear the owner's voice somewhere in the trees I never saw them. I would have gone after them but wasn't about to enter a fairly heavily wooded area with another potential attack from the dog.

Am I proud that I did it. No, proud isn't the right word. I'm pleased that I took the right action (in this case) to protect myself and not get hurt. And I'm certainly not ashamed.

Fair point well put.
FWIW - I have been chased by a number of barking dogs, I watch where I'm going and keep on pedalling. Maybe I've been lucky - The dog quickly gives up, I don't get bitten and I don't crash. Apologies for my cynicism, I saw "kick in the head" and felt that it shouldn't go unchallenged.

Thanks for coming back on this and your apology bikes_and_dogs. Each situation like this is different. Like you, I've had times when I've just kept going and got away.
However, this time there was no opportunity for that. The dog was already very close to me as it just dashed out of the trees, I was quite tired after my off road riding and was riding a full suspension mtb with trail tyres so I wouldn't have got away and it almost immediately made a savage attempted attack.
But enough of this. Thanks for getting back, I appreciate it.

FWIW when I used to cycle to work I used to regularly see a woman walking a Schnauzer off the lead on the cycleway and it plainly disliked / was frightened of bikes. Every time she would be frantically trying to get the dog back when she saw me approach as though the last thing she expected to see on a cycleway was a cyclist.

One morning the dog had got ahead of her more than usual and it started running towards me. I unclipped but wasn’t going to be able to stop in time so used my foot to fend it off as otherwise it was going for my chainset and we were both going to end up hurt. The owner started gobbing off totally oblivious that I’d saved her dog from likely serious injury and, potentially, a large vets bill.

That's what annoys me about dogs not under control on busy shared-use paths... the owners wouldn't do that on a busy road, in case their dog got hurt, but on a shared-use path... well, who cares about cyclists?

I was annoyed by one such owner, whose little dog (not on a lead) had just darted across my path, causing me to completely stop to save running over it: my suggestion that the owner might keep said pooch under control was met with "But it was under control!" In which case, why was I stopped...?

Pross

Had some old boy walking a dog off the lead on the same stretch and it was weaving about so I shouted ‘excuse me’ as I approached. He turned around and told me I shouldn’t be going so fast, I was virtually track standing and on the verge of losing balance.

briantrumpet

Pross said:

Had some old boy walking a dog off the lead on the same stretch and it was weaving about so I shouted ‘excuse me’ as I approached. He turned around and told me I shouldn’t be going so fast, I was virtually track standing and on the verge of losing balance.

Again, he'd not do that on a busy road: he'd have it on a lead.

pinno

Cycling along a road in winter a couple of years ago and this man with his dog was walking along the path next to the road.
The dog was jumping about and on and off the path on and off the road. It was snowing and all I wanted to do was get home. The problem was that I was using the left track cleared by cars and there was a crown of the snow between the 2 tracks.
Anticipating that I might have to cross over, I slowed and indeed, the dog jumped off the path and I swerved into the right track but stayed on. I said softly 'fcuks sake' as I passed, more with the incredulity of the owner on what is a busy stretch of road and he started mouthing off at me.
I stopped and said that I didn't want to crash into his dog and nor did I want to fall off but that logic went over his head.
Now, I am familiar with the bloke and the dog (which appeared to be quite young and full of energy) and the regular routes he took and though I saw him with the dog on many occasions before and after this incident, 6 months later, I never saw the dog again with him. I wonder of the worst had happened.

ddraver

Talked to my vet friend last night about this a bit and she said that they put down a dog per fortnight because they've bitten someone...

This is a small town vets - barely a village. It's so common it barely raises eyebrows any more.

All because people CBA to teach Phydeaux to "come!" What's that about animal cruelty? 😕