Energy thread

Munsford0

I think you've almost certainly identified the culprit as the oil-filled radiators.

Pross

pangolin said:

Pross said:

For the first time ever I've just done a quick analysis of my ebergy usage over the last 12 months and I seem to have a very weird profile. I looked up what is classed as average usage and for a 3 bedroom house it is apparently 2,900 kwh of electricity and 12,000 kwh of gas. My usage of the 12 months to this August was 4967 kwh of electricity and 7839 kwh of gas so well above on electric and well below on gas with total consumption being below average. It's a bit frustrating it isn't the other way around as I'm paying 7.4p for gas and 28.3p for electric.

I'm struggling to work out why the usage is so skewed. On the plus side it suggests I'm not using much heating. On the negative side, our former garage that is now my office where I spend most of the day; and which is single block, flat roof construction, isn't connected to the central heating and gets heated by two oil filled radiators that I suspect are the main culprits behind the electricity usage. I might set up in my daughter's room this winter as she'll be away in Uni.

Electric hob?

Nope, gas with electric oven. My electric use in the last month was only 95kwh with all the normal appliance use so whilst we'll use more on lighting in the winter it must be that heating that is causing the high usage (plus occasional tumble dryer use). If anyone has any suggestions for energy efficient space heater I'd be interested as these oil filled electric ones really do seem to cost a fortune.

pangolin

Pross said:

pangolin said:

Pross said:

For the first time ever I've just done a quick analysis of my ebergy usage over the last 12 months and I seem to have a very weird profile. I looked up what is classed as average usage and for a 3 bedroom house it is apparently 2,900 kwh of electricity and 12,000 kwh of gas. My usage of the 12 months to this August was 4967 kwh of electricity and 7839 kwh of gas so well above on electric and well below on gas with total consumption being below average. It's a bit frustrating it isn't the other way around as I'm paying 7.4p for gas and 28.3p for electric.

I'm struggling to work out why the usage is so skewed. On the plus side it suggests I'm not using much heating. On the negative side, our former garage that is now my office where I spend most of the day; and which is single block, flat roof construction, isn't connected to the central heating and gets heated by two oil filled radiators that I suspect are the main culprits behind the electricity usage. I might set up in my daughter's room this winter as she'll be away in Uni.

Electric hob?

Nope, gas with electric oven. My electric use in the last month was only 95kwh with all the normal appliance use so whilst we'll use more on lighting in the winter it must be that heating that is causing the high usage (plus occasional tumble dryer use). If anyone has any suggestions for energy efficient space heater I'd be interested as these oil filled electric ones really do seem to cost a fortune.

Is connecting the garage to the CH out of the question?

pblakeney

Pross said:

...what is classed as average usage and for a 3 bedroom house it is apparently 2,900 kwh of electricity and 12,000 kwh of gas...

Hmmm. Interesting.
I am 2777 for electricity and 9227 for gas. Not bad for someone who 100% wfh.

mully79

A 2kw heater is going to cost 28p x 2kw per hour. If you’ve two that would be over a pound an hour to run until the heater hits its temperature set point. After that the heater is mostly just replacing lost heat from the room. If you time how long the heater element is on vs off after it hits setpoint you can work out an accurate usage for a day.

For example, on 100% for 2 hours then heating 50% of time for rest of day.
In that case 2 hours at 4kwh
and 8 hours at 2kwh = 8+16 = 24kwh = £6.80 a day. Ouch.

JimD666

It gets really fun trying to work out average usage when you don't have gas. Electricity only and around the 5700kwh per year mark.

mully79

pblakeney said:

Pross said:

...what is classed as average usage and for a 3 bedroom house it is apparently 2,900 kwh of electricity and 12,000 kwh of gas...

Hmmm. Interesting.
I am 2777 for electricity and 9227 for gas. Not bad for someone who 100% wfh.

I’m similar for electric 2950kwh and haven’t used more than 85kwh of gas since May.

sungod

Pross said:

pangolin said:

Pross said:

For the first time ever I've just done a quick analysis of my ebergy usage over the last 12 months and I seem to have a very weird profile. I looked up what is classed as average usage and for a 3 bedroom house it is apparently 2,900 kwh of electricity and 12,000 kwh of gas. My usage of the 12 months to this August was 4967 kwh of electricity and 7839 kwh of gas so well above on electric and well below on gas with total consumption being below average. It's a bit frustrating it isn't the other way around as I'm paying 7.4p for gas and 28.3p for electric.

I'm struggling to work out why the usage is so skewed. On the plus side it suggests I'm not using much heating. On the negative side, our former garage that is now my office where I spend most of the day; and which is single block, flat roof construction, isn't connected to the central heating and gets heated by two oil filled radiators that I suspect are the main culprits behind the electricity usage. I might set up in my daughter's room this winter as she'll be away in Uni.

Electric hob?

Nope, gas with electric oven. My electric use in the last month was only 95kwh with all the normal appliance use so whilst we'll use more on lighting in the winter it must be that heating that is causing the high usage (plus occasional tumble dryer use). If anyone has any suggestions for energy efficient space heater I'd be interested as these oil filled electric ones really do seem to cost a fortune.

turning electric power into heat, is watts * seconds ⇒ joules, i.e. it happens with the same efficiency irrespective of how you do it

unless you're very close to it, a british 'radiator' really is a convection heater, it makes the air hot, the air heats you and the objects in the room, if there's no forced circulation the warm air will be at the top, leaving the lower part, and you, cold

radiant heaters generally will be glowing, they heat objects direct, rather than the air (which heats through contact with the objects and the heater), trouble is they can burn/ignite things, the inverse square relationship limits the 'sweet spot'

if you're in a fixed position, a fan heater under the desk might be most effective as you'll be sitting in the warm air

but unless you've already got good insulation (floor, walls, ceiling, windows, doors), fix that before the heating

rjsterry

Pross said:

For the first time ever I've just done a quick analysis of my ebergy usage over the last 12 months and I seem to have a very weird profile. I looked up what is classed as average usage and for a 3 bedroom house it is apparently 2,900 kwh of electricity and 12,000 kwh of gas. My usage of the 12 months to this August was 4967 kwh of electricity and 7839 kwh of gas so well above on electric and well below on gas with total consumption being below average. It's a bit frustrating it isn't the other way around as I'm paying 7.4p for gas and 28.3p for electric.

I'm struggling to work out why the usage is so skewed. On the plus side it suggests I'm not using much heating. On the negative side, our former garage that is now my office where I spend most of the day; and which is single block, flat roof construction, isn't connected to the central heating and gets heated by two oil filled radiators that I suspect are the main culprits behind the electricity usage. I might set up in my daughter's room this winter as she'll be away in Uni.

😬 Unit prices are more or less doubling to 52p and 15p, so being a heavy electric user will sting. Those oil-filled electric rads will ruin you.

SG is right: fabric first. Insulating solid blockwork externally is pretty easy, and likewise a flat roof, and it will make a huge difference.

First.Aspect

Good to know as I work in a loft which is either cold or hot.

Jacket, fingerless gloves a candle and a quill it is then, bah humbug.

Pross

pangolin said:

Pross said:

pangolin said:

Pross said:

For the first time ever I've just done a quick analysis of my ebergy usage over the last 12 months and I seem to have a very weird profile. I looked up what is classed as average usage and for a 3 bedroom house it is apparently 2,900 kwh of electricity and 12,000 kwh of gas. My usage of the 12 months to this August was 4967 kwh of electricity and 7839 kwh of gas so well above on electric and well below on gas with total consumption being below average. It's a bit frustrating it isn't the other way around as I'm paying 7.4p for gas and 28.3p for electric.

I'm struggling to work out why the usage is so skewed. On the plus side it suggests I'm not using much heating. On the negative side, our former garage that is now my office where I spend most of the day; and which is single block, flat roof construction, isn't connected to the central heating and gets heated by two oil filled radiators that I suspect are the main culprits behind the electricity usage. I might set up in my daughter's room this winter as she'll be away in Uni.

Electric hob?

Nope, gas with electric oven. My electric use in the last month was only 95kwh with all the normal appliance use so whilst we'll use more on lighting in the winter it must be that heating that is causing the high usage (plus occasional tumble dryer use). If anyone has any suggestions for energy efficient space heater I'd be interested as these oil filled electric ones really do seem to cost a fortune.

Is connecting the garage to the CH out of the question?

Unfortunately yes. We did get it improve the insulation a bit when we remodelled the room a couple of years ago but without serious cost I don't think there's much more we can do. It is sub divided with a stud wall across two thirds of its width and my office area is only about 2.5m x 1.5m, the larger part is what the kids have used as their living room but one now has her own place and the other is off to Uni so hopefully we can reduce the amount of heating out there a fair bit this winter but still need to keep it warm enough to avoid damp.

orraloon

rjsterry said:

😬 Unit prices are more or less doubling to 52p and 15p, so being a heavy electric user will sting. Those oil-filled electric rads will ruin you.

I read somewhere, can't recall if proper offushul but noted on my tracking spreadsheet as from Ofgem that unit rates under Thick Lizzy's proposed cap scheme are to be 34p and 10.3p

surrey_commuter

pblakeney said:

Pross said:

...what is classed as average usage and for a 3 bedroom house it is apparently 2,900 kwh of electricity and 12,000 kwh of gas...

Hmmm. Interesting.
I am 2777 for electricity and 9227 for gas. Not bad for someone who 100% wfh.

oh Christ!! I am 3,600 for elec and 19,000 of gas. I may be in for a shock when the fixed tariff runs out in 18 days.

Going into the annuals it seems elec has remained exactly the same each year yet 3 yrs ago gas was 20,000, then 18,000 and last year 16,000!!!!

The missus does not work and with me WFH the gas bill dropped 20%

Pross

I should probably convert the room back to storage and move my office to the spare bedroom. I would then save on my half of a storage unit I've just started hiring with my daughter as well as the costs of heating the area. Unfortunately the spare room is currently a 'dressing room' for the wife and daughter so there's no way I'm winning that battle (my vote to make it a turbo room / gym in the first place got voted down 2:1).

Maybe the cost of getting gas CH out there wouldn't be too bad after all. Routing the pipes through the kitchen is the real challenge but would probably need a new boiler too. That said, I'm over £800 in credit on my fuel at the moment so shouldn't see any bill rises for the time being.

Pross

I wonder why my gas usage is so low though. We don't tend to have the radiators on upstairs as the rooms are warm enough (the exception being the bathroom towel rail). Maybe I should leave the door from the kitchen to my office area open and have the gas hobs on all day instead of the electric radiators!

rjsterry

Pross said:

I should probably convert the room back to storage and move my office to the spare bedroom. I would then save on my half of a storage unit I've just started hiring with my daughter as well as the costs of heating the area. Unfortunately the spare room is currently a 'dressing room' for the wife and daughter so there's no way I'm winning that battle (my vote to make it a turbo room / gym in the first place got voted down 2:1).

Maybe the cost of getting gas CH out there wouldn't be too bad after all. Routing the pipes through the kitchen is the real challenge but would probably need a new boiler too. That said, I'm over £800 in credit on my fuel at the moment so shouldn't see any bill rises for the time being.

Seriously, don't even think about extending the central heating until you have insulated it properly, or you may as well heat it with rolled up fifties.

pangolin

rjsterry said:

Pross said:

I should probably convert the room back to storage and move my office to the spare bedroom. I would then save on my half of a storage unit I've just started hiring with my daughter as well as the costs of heating the area. Unfortunately the spare room is currently a 'dressing room' for the wife and daughter so there's no way I'm winning that battle (my vote to make it a turbo room / gym in the first place got voted down 2:1).

Maybe the cost of getting gas CH out there wouldn't be too bad after all. Routing the pipes through the kitchen is the real challenge but would probably need a new boiler too. That said, I'm over £800 in credit on my fuel at the moment so shouldn't see any bill rises for the time being.

Seriously, don't even think about extending the central heating until you have insulated it properly, or you may as well heat it with rolled up fifties.

As opposed to the rolled up hundreds he's using currently?

Pross

It will get far less use this year. Last year I was out there working all day then my daughter would be out there watching TV all evening. She also had a habit of turning the radiator up full and switching it of the timer setting so I would come down in the morning to a stiflingly hot room. The one radiator is right next to my desk so doesn't need to go on for long or at a very high temperature.

The ceiling is insulated but not the walls (the builders may have used foil backed plasterboard). Of the external walls one is the external wall of the house so benefits from the cavity insulation, the other long side only has a gap of about 150mm to the neighbours garage (would it be posible to fill that with insulation?). The front elevation where the garage door used to be is a double glazed window with a cavity wall below so it is really only the rear elevation which has about 2.5-3m2 of single block wall (the rest is double glazed window and a door).

pblakeney

mully79 said:

pblakeney said:

Pross said:

...what is classed as average usage and for a 3 bedroom house it is apparently 2,900 kwh of electricity and 12,000 kwh of gas...

Hmmm. Interesting.
I am 2777 for electricity and 9227 for gas. Not bad for someone who 100% wfh.

I’m similar for electric 2950kwh and haven’t used more than 85kwh of gas since May.

That was my annual. Our heating has not been required since April.

pblakeney

surrey_commuter said:

...

The missus does not work and with me WFH the gas bill dropped 20%

A big uptake in hot air? 😉🤣

pangolin

Pross said:

It will get far less use this year. Last year I was out there working all day then my daughter would be out there watching TV all evening. She also had a habit of turning the radiator up full and switching it of the timer setting so I would come down in the morning to a stiflingly hot room. The one radiator is right next to my desk so doesn't need to go on for long or at a very high temperature.

The ceiling is insulated but not the walls (the builders may have used foil backed plasterboard). Of the external walls one is the external wall of the house so benefits from the cavity insulation, the other long side only has a gap of about 150mm to the neighbours garage (would it be posible to fill that with insulation?). The front elevation where the garage door used to be is a double glazed window with a cavity wall below so it is really only the rear elevation which has about 2.5-3m2 of single block wall (the rest is double glazed window and a door).

Your issue is not insulation or types of heater, it's children.

blazing_saddles

Pross said:

I wonder why my gas usage is so low though. We don't tend to have the radiators on upstairs as the rooms are warm enough (the exception being the bathroom towel rail). Maybe I should leave the door from the kitchen to my office area open and have the gas hobs on all day instead of the electric radiators!

Must be a Welsh thing as I am exactly the same. Last months bill was 4 times higher for electricity.
It's not as if I don't go around, knocking things off standby, taking shorter showers etc, either.

But I will join the others in warning that oil filled rads cost a bomb to run. I have a couple which I don't use anymore. In the past I have had the electric tripping out, switching just one on.
Heavy duty users.

Pross

pangolin said:

Pross said:

It will get far less use this year. Last year I was out there working all day then my daughter would be out there watching TV all evening. She also had a habit of turning the radiator up full and switching it of the timer setting so I would come down in the morning to a stiflingly hot room. The one radiator is right next to my desk so doesn't need to go on for long or at a very high temperature.

The ceiling is insulated but not the walls (the builders may have used foil backed plasterboard). Of the external walls one is the external wall of the house so benefits from the cavity insulation, the other long side only has a gap of about 150mm to the neighbours garage (would it be posible to fill that with insulation?). The front elevation where the garage door used to be is a double glazed window with a cavity wall below so it is really only the rear elevation which has about 2.5-3m2 of single block wall (the rest is double glazed window and a door).

Your issue is not insulation or types of heater, it's children.

Got that one solved luckily. Even by time I've bunged her some money to her uni living costs I suspect I'll be in credit taking account of the energy savings and all the driving her to work / rehearsals. It was noticeable how much our electric use dropped when my eldest moved out even though the only difference was a very small bedroom.

wallace_and_gromit

Pross said:

pangolin said:

Pross said:

It will get far less use this year. Last year I was out there working all day then my daughter would be out there watching TV all evening. She also had a habit of turning the radiator up full and switching it of the timer setting so I would come down in the morning to a stiflingly hot room. The one radiator is right next to my desk so doesn't need to go on for long or at a very high temperature.

The ceiling is insulated but not the walls (the builders may have used foil backed plasterboard). Of the external walls one is the external wall of the house so benefits from the cavity insulation, the other long side only has a gap of about 150mm to the neighbours garage (would it be posible to fill that with insulation?). The front elevation where the garage door used to be is a double glazed window with a cavity wall below so it is really only the rear elevation which has about 2.5-3m2 of single block wall (the rest is double glazed window and a door).

Your issue is not insulation or types of heater, it's children.

Got that one solved luckily. Even by time I've bunged her some money to her uni living costs I suspect I'll be in credit taking account of the energy savings and all the driving her to work / rehearsals. It was noticeable how much our electric use dropped when my eldest moved out even though the only difference was a very small bedroom.

If your kids are anything like mine then you must be saving a fortune via not having them standing staring into the fridge (with the door open) for what seems like ages before wandering off bored to turn some lights on for no reason, before firing up the tumble drier as it's easier than hanging washing out, before returning to leave the fridge door open to see if anyone has been shopping in the meantime.

rjsterry

wallace_and_gromit said:

Pross said:

pangolin said:

Pross said:

It will get far less use this year. Last year I was out there working all day then my daughter would be out there watching TV all evening. She also had a habit of turning the radiator up full and switching it of the timer setting so I would come down in the morning to a stiflingly hot room. The one radiator is right next to my desk so doesn't need to go on for long or at a very high temperature.

The ceiling is insulated but not the walls (the builders may have used foil backed plasterboard). Of the external walls one is the external wall of the house so benefits from the cavity insulation, the other long side only has a gap of about 150mm to the neighbours garage (would it be posible to fill that with insulation?). The front elevation where the garage door used to be is a double glazed window with a cavity wall below so it is really only the rear elevation which has about 2.5-3m2 of single block wall (the rest is double glazed window and a door).

Your issue is not insulation or types of heater, it's children.

Got that one solved luckily. Even by time I've bunged her some money to her uni living costs I suspect I'll be in credit taking account of the energy savings and all the driving her to work / rehearsals. It was noticeable how much our electric use dropped when my eldest moved out even though the only difference was a very small bedroom.

If your kids are anything like mine then you must be saving a fortune via not having them standing staring into the fridge (with the door open) for what seems like ages before wandering off bored to turn some lights on for no reason, before firing up the tumble drier as it's easier than hanging washing out, before returning to leave the fridge door open to see if anyone has been shopping in the meantime.

It's making me stressed out just reading that.

TheBigBean

wallace_and_gromit said:

Pross said:

pangolin said:

Pross said:

It will get far less use this year. Last year I was out there working all day then my daughter would be out there watching TV all evening. She also had a habit of turning the radiator up full and switching it of the timer setting so I would come down in the morning to a stiflingly hot room. The one radiator is right next to my desk so doesn't need to go on for long or at a very high temperature.

The ceiling is insulated but not the walls (the builders may have used foil backed plasterboard). Of the external walls one is the external wall of the house so benefits from the cavity insulation, the other long side only has a gap of about 150mm to the neighbours garage (would it be posible to fill that with insulation?). The front elevation where the garage door used to be is a double glazed window with a cavity wall below so it is really only the rear elevation which has about 2.5-3m2 of single block wall (the rest is double glazed window and a door).

Your issue is not insulation or types of heater, it's children.

Got that one solved luckily. Even by time I've bunged her some money to her uni living costs I suspect I'll be in credit taking account of the energy savings and all the driving her to work / rehearsals. It was noticeable how much our electric use dropped when my eldest moved out even though the only difference was a very small bedroom.

If your kids are anything like mine then you must be saving a fortune via not having them standing staring into the fridge (with the door open) for what seems like ages before wandering off bored to turn some lights on for no reason, before firing up the tumble drier as it's easier than hanging washing out, before returning to leave the fridge door open to see if anyone has been shopping in the meantime.

Your kids manage their own laundry!

wallace_and_gromit

TheBigBean said:

wallace_and_gromit said:

Pross said:

pangolin said:

Pross said:

It will get far less use this year. Last year I was out there working all day then my daughter would be out there watching TV all evening. She also had a habit of turning the radiator up full and switching it of the timer setting so I would come down in the morning to a stiflingly hot room. The one radiator is right next to my desk so doesn't need to go on for long or at a very high temperature.

The ceiling is insulated but not the walls (the builders may have used foil backed plasterboard). Of the external walls one is the external wall of the house so benefits from the cavity insulation, the other long side only has a gap of about 150mm to the neighbours garage (would it be posible to fill that with insulation?). The front elevation where the garage door used to be is a double glazed window with a cavity wall below so it is really only the rear elevation which has about 2.5-3m2 of single block wall (the rest is double glazed window and a door).

Your issue is not insulation or types of heater, it's children.

Got that one solved luckily. Even by time I've bunged her some money to her uni living costs I suspect I'll be in credit taking account of the energy savings and all the driving her to work / rehearsals. It was noticeable how much our electric use dropped when my eldest moved out even though the only difference was a very small bedroom.

If your kids are anything like mine then you must be saving a fortune via not having them standing staring into the fridge (with the door open) for what seems like ages before wandering off bored to turn some lights on for no reason, before firing up the tumble drier as it's easier than hanging washing out, before returning to leave the fridge door open to see if anyone has been shopping in the meantime.

Your kids manage their own laundry!

Only when they actually need something specific. Otherwise they just slip stuff into the basket and rely on parents wanting to maximise efficiency by having one load rather than separate adult, offpsring1 and offspring2 loads!

bonk_king

Our 18 year old son had a right ding dong with his mum a few weeks ago. It was that bad he's gone to live at his aunties!

Since he left, my energy smart meter no longer smokes through over usage, lol. Electric usage has plummeted and the fridge and cupboards are always full now, and the house is tidy and doesn't smell!

Honestly, kids are a nightmare when it comes to this type of stuff.

We're expecting an SOS call from his auntie anytime soon pleading with us to take him back, lol.

rjsterry

Pross said:

It will get far less use this year. Last year I was out there working all day then my daughter would be out there watching TV all evening. She also had a habit of turning the radiator up full and switching it of the timer setting so I would come down in the morning to a stiflingly hot room. The one radiator is right next to my desk so doesn't need to go on for long or at a very high temperature.

The ceiling is insulated but not the walls (the builders may have used foil backed plasterboard). Of the external walls one is the external wall of the house so benefits from the cavity insulation, the other long side only has a gap of about 150mm to the neighbours garage (would it be posible to fill that with insulation?). The front elevation where the garage door used to be is a double glazed window with a cavity wall below so it is really only the rear elevation which has about 2.5-3m2 of single block wall (the rest is double glazed window and a door).

I would have thought that you can effectively fill that 6" gap with mineral wool batts, cap it off at the top and both ends, and create an insulated cavity wall. Do the same on the rear wall and add some cladding and you will be toasty. Might need to shift the window outwards a bit.

Pross

That was my thinking, the top of the gap is covered with flashband to prevent water from next doors garage making the wall damp.