Tourist Trophy
Comments
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So what, 5% of the coverage?MattFalle said:.
Its mentioned, respects paid, move on.rick_chasey said:Curious how the sport covers the deaths?
I don’t follow motorbike racing, but certainly in pretty much any other sport on TV it’d be 80-90% of the coverage.
Its part of it.0 -
They made the mountain course one way for the duration of the TT about 20 years ago, this year I see there is a barrier in place to stop people going the wrong way (which suggests that some nutters had previously been trying to go round the wrong way)DeVlaeminck said:
Yes "mad Sunday" wasn't it when the course was open for all the bikers over to watch the TT could have a go themselves.
I think they have made changes so that isn't quite as mental as it used to be - not exactly sure what.0 -
Not even that.rick_chasey said:
So what, 5% of the coverage?MattFalle said:.
Its mentioned, respects paid, move on.rick_chasey said:Curious how the sport covers the deaths?
I don’t follow motorbike racing, but certainly in pretty much any other sport on TV it’d be 80-90% of the coverage.
Its part of it.
Pay respects, move on. Why dwell on it - leave families snd friends alone..The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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Sounds like F1 in the 60s.MattFalle said:.
Its mentioned, respects paid, move on.rick_chasey said:Curious how the sport covers the deaths?
I don’t follow motorbike racing, but certainly in pretty much any other sport on TV it’d be 80-90% of the coverage.
Its part of it.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Yup.rjsterry said:
Sounds like F1 in the 60s.MattFalle said:.
Its mentioned, respects paid, move on.rick_chasey said:Curious how the sport covers the deaths?
I don’t follow motorbike racing, but certainly in pretty much any other sport on TV it’d be 80-90% of the coverage.
Its part of it.
Why dwell? Its a very, very sad thing. It happened.
What ya gonna do, examine it from 200 angles for a gawping public?.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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Why dwell on it, lol.MattFalle said:
Not even that.rick_chasey said:
So what, 5% of the coverage?MattFalle said:.
Its mentioned, respects paid, move on.rick_chasey said:Curious how the sport covers the deaths?
I don’t follow motorbike racing, but certainly in pretty much any other sport on TV it’d be 80-90% of the coverage.
Its part of it.
Pay respects, move on. Why dwell on it - leave families snd friends alone.
If that's your attitude no wonder there is a missmatch in the discussion here.0 -
I meant the dismissive nothing can be done attitude. I seem to remember much the same arguments were put forward about drivers knowing the risks and the romance of the sport. It was guff then and I don't see what has changed.MattFalle said:
Yup.rjsterry said:
Sounds like F1 in the 60s.MattFalle said:.
Its mentioned, respects paid, move on.rick_chasey said:Curious how the sport covers the deaths?
I don’t follow motorbike racing, but certainly in pretty much any other sport on TV it’d be 80-90% of the coverage.
Its part of it.
Why dwell? Its a very, very sad thing. It happened.
What ya gonna do, examine it from 200 angles for a gawping public?1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
Why on both counts,?
Why dwell on it? What benefits are there? So people like you and Ugo can wring hands and make statements about stuff they don't understand?
Utterly none..The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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Eh,?ugo.santalucia said:Ultimately it boils down to who pays for the medical expenses and long term injuries of those who don't die on the spot. If entry comes with an insurance covering all medical costs, then fine, otherwise it is a small burden to society and needs to be made safer
What you on about Willis?.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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When they don't die, but are badly injured and need permanent medical attention and ongoing care. They are then a burden. And almost certainly not to the IoM government.MattFalle said:
Eh,?ugo.santalucia said:Ultimately it boils down to who pays for the medical expenses and long term injuries of those who don't die on the spot. If entry comes with an insurance covering all medical costs, then fine, otherwise it is a small burden to society and needs to be made safer
What you on about Willis?
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Ah, gotcha.Dorset_Boy said:
When they don't die, but are badly injured and need permanent medical attention and ongoing care. They are then a burden. And almost certainly not to the IoM government.MattFalle said:
Eh,?ugo.santalucia said:Ultimately it boils down to who pays for the medical expenses and long term injuries of those who don't die on the spot. If entry comes with an insurance covering all medical costs, then fine, otherwise it is a small burden to society and needs to be made safer
What you on about Willis?
So lets make changes to cycling, horseriding, rugby, sailing, all motorsports inc cars, etc etc etc.
Dumb idea.
Do you want to thtowclimbing up ladders in there as well?.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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Well you're not going to get private medical or care insurance if you race the IoM TT. You might also find death when racing the IoM TT is excluded on a life cover application too.MattFalle said:
Ah, gotcha.Dorset_Boy said:
When they don't die, but are badly injured and need permanent medical attention and ongoing care. They are then a burden. And almost certainly not to the IoM government.MattFalle said:
Eh,?ugo.santalucia said:Ultimately it boils down to who pays for the medical expenses and long term injuries of those who don't die on the spot. If entry comes with an insurance covering all medical costs, then fine, otherwise it is a small burden to society and needs to be made safer
What you on about Willis?
So lets make changes to cycling, horseriding, rugby, sailing, all motorsports inc cars, etc etc etc.
Dumb idea.
Do you want to thtowclimbing up ladders in there as well?
You will if you do pretty much all the other sports you have listed.
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Enlighten us. What are we missing? It's a sport that people do for a living. Why should it get a let off on attempts to improve safety?MattFalle said:Why on both counts,?
Why dwell on it? What benefits are there? So people like you and Ugo can wring hands and make statements about stuff they don't understand?
Utterly none.
I'm sure you are aware how much effort has been put into stopping people being injured at work falling off ladders. If one of my staff falls off a ladder at work I will not be able to bullshit my way out of it by talking about the romance of the construction industry.MattFalle said:
Ah, gotcha.Dorset_Boy said:
When they don't die, but are badly injured and need permanent medical attention and ongoing care. They are then a burden. And almost certainly not to the IoM government.MattFalle said:
Eh,?ugo.santalucia said:Ultimately it boils down to who pays for the medical expenses and long term injuries of those who don't die on the spot. If entry comes with an insurance covering all medical costs, then fine, otherwise it is a small burden to society and needs to be made safer
What you on about Willis?
So lets make changes to cycling, horseriding, rugby, sailing, all motorsports inc cars, etc etc etc.
Dumb idea.
Do you want to thtowclimbing up ladders in there as well?1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
To see if next year they can run the race with no fatalities. I would have thought that was obvious.MattFalle said:Why on both counts,?
Why dwell on it? What benefits are there? So people like you and Ugo can wring hands and make statements about stuff they don't understand?
Utterly none.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I'm starting to see the same argument for keeping the TT as the gun lobby are using in the US.
"Yeah, people die, but I like guns, so let's not change anything.."0 -
Difference being guns generally kill other people, TT riders don't tend to take out a classroom of children.imposter2.0 said:I'm starting to see the same argument for keeping the TT as the gun lobby are using in the US.
"Yeah, people die, but I like guns, so let's not change anything.."0 -
But what if you a) don't have it for the other sports and b) have motorsport/dangerous activities insurance like, errrr, we all do?Dorset_Boy said:
Well you're not going to get private medical or care insurance if you race the IoM TT. You might also find death when racing the IoM TT is excluded on a life cover application too.MattFalle said:
Ah, gotcha.Dorset_Boy said:
When they don't die, but are badly injured and need permanent medical attention and ongoing care. They are then a burden. And almost certainly not to the IoM government.MattFalle said:
Eh,?ugo.santalucia said:Ultimately it boils down to who pays for the medical expenses and long term injuries of those who don't die on the spot. If entry comes with an insurance covering all medical costs, then fine, otherwise it is a small burden to society and needs to be made safer
What you on about Willis?
So lets make changes to cycling, horseriding, rugby, sailing, all motorsports inc cars, etc etc etc.
Dumb idea.
Do you want to thtowclimbing up ladders in there as well?
You will if you do pretty much all the other sports you have listed.
Massivrly dumb idea on so many levels..The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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Thats probably the dumbest thing i've read in ages.imposter2.0 said:I'm starting to see the same argument for keeping the TT as the gun lobby are using in the US.
"Yeah, people die, but I like guns, so let's not change anything.."
So you want to the ban the TT?
Ffs. Is this really the way people are thinking?
Can we all clamour to ban the Grand National please because horses die..The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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To be fair, there have been some changes aimed at making it safer but they tend to be around procedures (marshalling, start numbers, warm up laps etc) rather than physical infrastructure.
There isn't physically space for the type of safety feature that could have a major effect (gravel traps etc) - in towns they are brushing people's garden walls and on the mountain course there are often big drops off the side.
Assuming you don't want to terrace the mountain and start knocking down houses, the only thing available really is making the bikes slower but that is no guarantee - the first fatality this year was on a supertwin so not the'big/fast' bikes but even my not particularly fast 600cc bike would be doing well over a ton through the corner the guy died on and as you can see below, there isn't much margin for error.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9v6_tls4FY
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This is another statement to add to the collection.rjsterry said:
To see if next year they can run the race with no fatalities. I would have thought that was obvious.MattFalle said:Why on both counts,?
Why dwell on it? What benefits are there? So people like you and Ugo can wring hands and make statements about stuff they don't understand?
Utterly none.
As much as I know I'm going to regret typing this, what do you propose tbey do?.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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Who's bulling what?rjsterry said:
Enlighten us. What are we missing? It's a sport that people do for a living. Why should it get a let off on attempts to improve safety?MattFalle said:Why on both counts,?
Why dwell on it? What benefits are there? So people like you and Ugo can wring hands and make statements about stuff they don't understand?
Utterly none.
I'm sure you are aware how much effort has been put into stopping people being injured at work falling off ladders. If one of my staff falls off a ladder at work I will not be able to bullshit my way out of it by talking about the romance of the construction industry.MattFalle said:
Ah, gotcha.Dorset_Boy said:
When they don't die, but are badly injured and need permanent medical attention and ongoing care. They are then a burden. And almost certainly not to the IoM government.MattFalle said:
Eh,?ugo.santalucia said:Ultimately it boils down to who pays for the medical expenses and long term injuries of those who don't die on the spot. If entry comes with an insurance covering all medical costs, then fine, otherwise it is a small burden to society and needs to be made safer
What you on about Willis?
So lets make changes to cycling, horseriding, rugby, sailing, all motorsports inc cars, etc etc etc.
Dumb idea.
Do you want to thtowclimbing up ladders in there as well?
I seem to have missed the point where someone has said dying is romantic much like have missed anything to do with roadracing until you stumbled across this thread..The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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Check on fella - do you honestly not think safety is reviewd all the yime and that they are still running it exactly the same as a hundred years ago?rjsterry said:
Enlighten us. What are we missing? It's a sport that people do for a living. Why should it get a let off on attempts to improve safety?MattFalle said:Why on both counts,?
Why dwell on it? What benefits are there? So people like you and Ugo can wring hands and make statements about stuff they don't understand?
Utterly none.
I'm sure you are aware how much effort has been put into stopping people being injured at work falling off ladders. If one of my staff falls off a ladder at work I will not be able to bullshit my way out of it by talking about the romance of the construction industry.MattFalle said:
Ah, gotcha.Dorset_Boy said:
When they don't die, but are badly injured and need permanent medical attention and ongoing care. They are then a burden. And almost certainly not to the IoM government.MattFalle said:
Eh,?ugo.santalucia said:Ultimately it boils down to who pays for the medical expenses and long term injuries of those who don't die on the spot. If entry comes with an insurance covering all medical costs, then fine, otherwise it is a small burden to society and needs to be made safer
What you on about Willis?
So lets make changes to cycling, horseriding, rugby, sailing, all motorsports inc cars, etc etc etc.
Dumb idea.
Do you want to thtowclimbing up ladders in there as well?
Seriously? Like seriously?
#therereallyisnomilk.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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You could make it more straightforward and just have all the punters betting on a sort of equine Russian roulette.MattFalle said:
Thats probably the dumbest thing i've read in ages.imposter2.0 said:I'm starting to see the same argument for keeping the TT as the gun lobby are using in the US.
"Yeah, people die, but I like guns, so let's not change anything.."
So you want to the ban the TT?
Ffs. Is this really the way people are thinking?
Can we all clamour to ban the Grand National please because horses die.
I don't think anyone is proposing to ban anything. Just not dismiss the question of whether there is a way to reduce the number of deaths.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
So you honestly, truly don't think they look at this all the time?
Seriously?
#milk.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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I'm just joining in because it's an interesting discussion. Just repeating that we don't understand Road racing is a bit boring. What is it about road racing that means 2-3 people dying every year in a particular event is acceptable, when this wouldn't be remotely acceptable in other sports or any other workplace? Seriously, what am I missing?MattFalle said:
Who's bulling what?rjsterry said:
Enlighten us. What are we missing? It's a sport that people do for a living. Why should it get a let off on attempts to improve safety?MattFalle said:Why on both counts,?
Why dwell on it? What benefits are there? So people like you and Ugo can wring hands and make statements about stuff they don't understand?
Utterly none.
I'm sure you are aware how much effort has been put into stopping people being injured at work falling off ladders. If one of my staff falls off a ladder at work I will not be able to bullshit my way out of it by talking about the romance of the construction industry.MattFalle said:
Ah, gotcha.Dorset_Boy said:
When they don't die, but are badly injured and need permanent medical attention and ongoing care. They are then a burden. And almost certainly not to the IoM government.MattFalle said:
Eh,?ugo.santalucia said:Ultimately it boils down to who pays for the medical expenses and long term injuries of those who don't die on the spot. If entry comes with an insurance covering all medical costs, then fine, otherwise it is a small burden to society and needs to be made safer
What you on about Willis?
So lets make changes to cycling, horseriding, rugby, sailing, all motorsports inc cars, etc etc etc.
Dumb idea.
Do you want to thtowclimbing up ladders in there as well?
I seem to have missed the point where someone has said dying is romantic much like have missed anything to do with roadracing until you stumbled across this thread.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
Similar numbers die every year climbing everest, some stuff is dangerous and you can't make it completely safe without removing a lot of what attracts people to it.
That isn't to say that nothing is being done but it could be considered 'tinkering around the edges' of the real risks, which are high speeds and immoveable obstacles.
https://www.iomttraces.com/projects/page/sms-features-and-benefits/
Remove the high speed and the surroundings and you would de-risk it massively but also remove a lot of the appeal.
There are other road races with much lower rates of fatalities - I don't think the NW200 has had any fatal accidents in the last few years.0 -
No - I don't want to ban it. I didn't actually say that. Or anything like it. But I would like to see some steps taken in order to reduce the number of people dying at it. The alternative argument - that deaths are a necessary by-product of the romance and tradition - is a complete load of bollox.MattFalle said:
Thats probably the dumbest thing i've read in ages.imposter2.0 said:I'm starting to see the same argument for keeping the TT as the gun lobby are using in the US.
"Yeah, people die, but I like guns, so let's not change anything.."
So you want to the ban the TT?
Ffs. Is this really the way people are thinking?
Can we all clamour to ban the Grand National please because horses die.
I wouldn't want to ban guns either - but I'd be happy to see some steps taken to reduce the number of mass shootings.
Hence the analogy.2 -
Top tip - think before you post.veronese68 said:
Difference being guns generally kill other people, TT riders don't tend to take out a classroom of children.imposter2.0 said:I'm starting to see the same argument for keeping the TT as the gun lobby are using in the US.
"Yeah, people die, but I like guns, so let's not change anything.."0 -
MFs points seem to be that there's no clamour to ban the Grand National, and not attempts to make the Cat and Fiddle safer, so the Iom TT should continue.
Both of which are completely untrue...
I have no issue with the TT, but if those are the best arguments for keeping it as it is, maybe Matt has done a good job of convincing me it needs to change.1 -
This is the interesting point for me. Are the TT roads inherently more dangerous to race on or are there additional measures at these other races that the TT could look to introduce? My initial thought was that the TT might attract different riders who weren't specialists in road racing but from the explanation on qualifying requirements up thread it appears they are more stringent. I suppose another explanation could be that the prestige of the event might lead to people pushing that bit harder.monkimark said:Similar numbers die every year climbing everest, some stuff is dangerous and you can't make it completely safe without removing a lot of what attracts people to it.
That isn't to say that nothing is being done but it could be considered 'tinkering around the edges' of the real risks, which are high speeds and immoveable obstacles.
https://www.iomttraces.com/projects/page/sms-features-and-benefits/
Remove the high speed and the surroundings and you would de-risk it massively but also remove a lot of the appeal.
There are other road races with much lower rates of fatalities - I don't think the NW200 has had any fatal accidents in the last few years.
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