Paris Roubaix 2021 pre race chat

prawny

Just finished watching on catchup while strictly is on. Good race that.

Fields looked weird full of crops. I wish it was spring though, it’s given a me strange confused feeling being in the autumn.

Pross

Sure but seeing the wheels sliding around it just felt like he'd be in his element.

jimmyjams

TheBigBean said:

Pross said:

TheBigBean said:

Pross said:

I don't understand not wearing gloves at the best of times let alone in P-R but Magnus disagrees and he knows a little bit more than me

I've never understood people's obsession with wearing gloves on a bike. I only wear them on a bike if it is freezing cold.

You haven't crashed on a bit of road with loose stones?

Generally it's the damage you can do if crashing. For example, why risk shredding your hands on Stage 1 of the Tour and being in pain or, at least, discomfort for the next week when you can easily protect them? On P-R though it's more I would have thought anything that protects you from the pounding would be a benefit. It feels a bit like not bothering with padded shorts.

Crashing usually involves pain beyond grazed hands. I can't remember ever injuring my hands although most of my crashes have been off road.

I know “Crashing usually involves pain beyond grazed hands“ - I've broken the ulna in both arms in crashes. But I've also cut open both arms in other separate falls, one time so badly on gravel that I needed an operation to remove the stones and for the arm to be tacked together over a length of 20 cm. For that reason I'm increasingly riding with arm-warmers, irrespective of weather.
I know I might seem to be wandering off the gloves discussion, but on the other hand, with my arm-warmers, I'm following the same principle as the glove-wearers do, protecting the skin on their hands.

jimmyjams

prawny said:

Just finished watching on catchup while strictly is on. Good race that.

Fields looked weird full of crops. I wish it was spring though, it’s given a me strange confused feeling being in the autumn.

prawny said:

Just finished watching on catchup while strictly is on. Good race that.

Fields looked weird full of crops. I wish it was spring though, it’s given a me strange confused feeling being in the autumn.

I heard that the fields still with maize growing 2 m or more high greatly reduced the effect of side-winds. And the winds were strong at times.

gsk82

After a few hours of reflection has anyone changed their feelings about the women's race? A lone rider accidentally went off the front and despite not ever getting a massive lead was never really challenged. If it was AvV instead of Lizzie D I'm sure this discussion would have been totally different.

rick_chasey

Pross said:

Pidcock missing this is feeling like a big mistake.

Yes agreed. Though he is *very* light.

Pross

gsk82 said:

After a few hours of reflection has anyone changed their feelings about the women's race? A lone rider accidentally went off the front and despite not ever getting a massive lead was never really challenged. If it was AvV instead of Lizzie D I'm sure this discussion would have been totally different.

I suspect the "accidental" was a slight exaggeration from Lizzie. I think the tactic was to go early to give van Dijk an easier ride but she was just too strong on the day. I'd also say getting 2'30" lead solo in windy conditions over a group of the best riders around is pretty impressive. Holding the lead steady over Vos once she'd lost her motor pacing after being alone all that time was also impressive.

For the record I'm not the biggest fan of Lizzie since I saw her stropping in the car park after losing the Nationals to Trott in 2014.

gsk82

Pross said:

gsk82 said:

After a few hours of reflection has anyone changed their feelings about the women's race? A lone rider accidentally went off the front and despite not ever getting a massive lead was never really challenged. If it was AvV instead of Lizzie D I'm sure this discussion would have been totally different.

I suspect the "accidental" was a slight exaggeration from Lizzie. I think the tactic was to go early to give van Dijk an easier ride but she was just too strong on the day. I'd also say getting 2'30" lead solo in windy conditions over a group of the best riders around is pretty impressive. Holding the lead steady over Vos once she'd lost her motor pacing after being alone all that time was also impressive.

For the record I'm not the biggest fan of Lizzie since I saw her stropping in the car park after losing the Nationals to Trott in 2014.

I didn't want to take anything away from her ride. But it wasn't much of a race. I enjoyed it at the time, but I think the occasion (first time and it been wet) and the rider (British star) masked that it was probably a pretty terrible race.

ddraver

As long as you judge the e.g. 2012 & 2013 editions the same way....

blazing_saddles

gsk82 said:

Pross said:

gsk82 said:

After a few hours of reflection has anyone changed their feelings about the women's race? A lone rider accidentally went off the front and despite not ever getting a massive lead was never really challenged. If it was AvV instead of Lizzie D I'm sure this discussion would have been totally different.

I suspect the "accidental" was a slight exaggeration from Lizzie. I think the tactic was to go early to give van Dijk an easier ride but she was just too strong on the day. I'd also say getting 2'30" lead solo in windy conditions over a group of the best riders around is pretty impressive. Holding the lead steady over Vos once she'd lost her motor pacing after being alone all that time was also impressive.

For the record I'm not the biggest fan of Lizzie since I saw her stropping in the car park after losing the Nationals to Trott in 2014.

I didn't want to take anything away from her ride. But it wasn't much of a race. I enjoyed it at the time, but I think the occasion (first time and it been wet) and the rider (British star) masked that it was probably a pretty terrible race.

"It's been a nice race, an epic race. Despite the crashes and the chaos, it's been a nice race, but in the end, Paris-Roubaix is chaos and crashes. It's totally chaotic. You just have to embrace the chaos and just know that you will face the unknown, which is great. I love it." Elisa Longo Borghini

How often are the top 9 stories on Cyclingnews about a woman's race? Reading some of the reports on there and other sites, I fear you are in a rather small minority in thinking it a terrible race.

jimmyjams

gsk82 said:

After a few hours of reflection has anyone changed their feelings about the women's race? A lone rider accidentally went off the front and despite not ever getting a massive lead was never really challenged. If it was AvV instead of Lizzie D I'm sure this discussion would have been totally different.

I think gsk82 may be correct about how the discussion would be different, had Deignan not won.
A couple of the women in their post-race interviews, one of whom I think was Cavalli (finished 9th), the other interviewee perhaps Brennauer (4th), said that they just didn't expect Deignan to carry on for so long; they thought her break a ploy to eventually help another Trek-Segafredo rider (van Djik?) and so didn't want to expend energy or take risks on the cobbles early on, in trying to catch Deignan.

So in the end, if albeit at a different level, Deignan was as lucky as the girl who won the Olympics RR gold medal. (I'm not trying to be disparaging, Deignan was very well worth her win – always looked on top of things during her ride – but there is that extra factor that she was allowed to go without resistance in the first place)

(As another aside, I also don't believe Vos was advantaged by the motos, despite some of Pross's remarks – camera shots give a false idea of perspective, and there is no reason why a French camera crew should favour a Dutchie over a Brit)

davidof

Pross said:

For the record I'm not the biggest fan of Lizzie since I saw her stropping in the car park after losing the Nationals to Trott in 2014.

She's a bit of a wanker to be honest but I guess to reach the top of any sport you need to be driven so I don't think that should distract from things.

At least Lizzie has a higher profile than some amateur bike rider from Lausanne.

It is all a bit reminiscent of 70s men's bike racing where some bloke would take a flyer from the start and cross the finish line 160km later having held off the bunch.

daniel_b

I don't believe Deignan was lucky at all, she rode that one out, made the gap and kep going for the entire time solo.

They also were fully aware she was out there, where as Kiesenhofer was out front, but seemingly not everyone realised she was there - not suggesting she was lucky either, but there is that added factor.

I digress.

I watched the race (Or the last 45k) this evening, thought it to be very very entertaining, hope the mens race is at least half as good as that, and I would imagine with the forecast the course is going to be a mudbath, so hopefully not too many crashes.

Few of the women's crashes looked pretty horrific, and Deignan's mega save (posted further up) I personally thought was stunning composure on the very edge.

Re the ES coverage, am I correct in thinking that the live coverage missed the point when Deignan broke away?
Also oddly, the commentary on my ad free feed did not kick in until about 42km to go, some technical issue I guess.

pblakeney

rick_chasey said:

Pross said:

Pidcock missing this is feeling like a big mistake.

Yes agreed. Though he is *very* light.

It is an interesting question that I would ask someone who knows better.
Is it better to be able to power over the cobbles, or glide over the top?
Off the top of my head, power wins historically but I am not sure why.

jimmyjams

daniel_b said:

I don't believe Deignan was lucky at all, she rode that one out, made the gap and kep going for the entire time solo.

They also were fully aware she was out there, where as Kiesenhofer was out front, but seemingly not everyone realised she was there - not suggesting she was lucky either, but there is that added factor.

I digress.

I watched the race (Or the last 45k) this evening, thought it to be very very entertaining, hope the mens race is at least half as good as that, and I would imagine with the forecast the course is going to be a mudbath, so hopefully not too many crashes.

Few of the women's crashes looked pretty horrific, and Deignan's mega save (posted further up) I personally thought was stunning composure on the very edge.

Re the ES coverage, am I correct in thinking that the live coverage missed the point when Deignan broke away?
Also oddly, the commentary on my ad free feed did not kick in until about 42km to go, some technical issue I guess.

"Few of the women's crashes looked pretty horrific"
Van Vleuten broke her pubic bone, which I can imagine being very significant if not just a line fracture.

rick_chasey

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

Pross said:

Pidcock missing this is feeling like a big mistake.

Yes agreed. Though he is *very* light.

It is an interesting question that I would ask someone who knows better.
Is it better to be able to power over the cobbles, or glide over the top?
Off the top of my head, power wins historically but I am not sure why.

Once upon a time Gilbert was considered on the cusp of being too light for PR. It’s very flat for a one day race.

pblakeney

rick_chasey said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

Pross said:

Pidcock missing this is feeling like a big mistake.

Yes agreed. Though he is *very* light.

It is an interesting question that I would ask someone who knows better.
Is it better to be able to power over the cobbles, or glide over the top?
Off the top of my head, power wins historically but I am not sure why.

Once upon a time Gilbert was considered on the cusp of being too light for PR. It’s very flat for a one day race.

Yeahbut, floating over the cobbles instead of crashing through them.
Only a ponderance. I have no sides, knowledge, or experience.

mididoctors

gsk82 said:

After a few hours of reflection has anyone changed their feelings about the women's race? A lone rider accidentally went off the front and despite not ever getting a massive lead was never really challenged. If it was AvV instead of Lizzie D I'm sure this discussion would have been totally different.

kinda answered your own question its wasnt AvV.

ddraver

jimmyjams said:

Brennauer (4th), said that they just didn't expect Deignan to carry on for so long; they thought her break a ploy to eventually help another Trek-Segafredo rider (van Djik?) and so didn't want to expend energy or take risks on the cobbles early on, in trying to catch Deignan.

So...a breakaway then..?

andyrac

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

Pross said:

Pidcock missing this is feeling like a big mistake.

Yes agreed. Though he is *very* light.

It is an interesting question that I would ask someone who knows better.
Is it better to be able to power over the cobbles, or glide over the top?
Off the top of my head, power wins historically but I am not sure why.

Once upon a time Gilbert was considered on the cusp of being too light for PR. It’s very flat for a one day race.

Yeah but, floating over the cobbles instead of crashing through them.
Only a ponderance. I have no sides, knowledge, or experience.

I'm guessing, but in normal dry conditions, heavier powerful riders are still best suited. However, in wet, slippy condition, especially on cobbles, you can't put all of that power down, as you'll just spin wheels - unless you're skilled, and use a low cadence.
As an old Pirelli advert used to quote "Power is nothing without control". Quite apt as that is what Trek-Segafredo are on.

tailwindhome

daniel_b said:

I don't believe Deignan was lucky at all, she rode that one out, made the gap and kep going for the entire time solo.

They also were fully aware she was out there, where as Kiesenhofer was out front, but seemingly not everyone realised she was there - not suggesting she was lucky either, but there is that added factor.

I digress.

I watched the race (Or the last 45k) this evening, thought it to be very very entertaining, hope the mens race is at least half as good as that, and I would imagine with the forecast the course is going to be a mudbath, so hopefully not too many crashes.

Few of the women's crashes looked pretty horrific, and Deignan's mega save (posted further up) I personally thought was stunning composure on the very edge.

Re the ES coverage, am I correct in thinking that the live coverage missed the point when Deignan broke away?
Also oddly, the commentary on my ad free feed did not kick in until about 42km to go, some technical issue I guess.

The live feed feed didn't start until 65km to go (or thereabouts). That's all ASO provided

Deignan's attack seems to have come just before the first sector of cobbles.

There was some footage from there on twitter

tailwindhome

https://twitter.com/cyclingtips/status/1444420476680298497?s=19

tailwindhome

First sector of cobbles.
Deignan leads by 4/5 seconds

https://twitter.com/rouleur/status/1444286554017570817?s=19

thegreasedscotsman

I was on the first section of the race and took these...








Looks like Deignan just drifted over to take a faster line.

Dorset_Boy

Re lighter vs heavier: I suspect the lighter riders get thrown upwards by each bump more than the heavier riders, so power is wasted. Similar to the argument about not using 120 psi in your tyres.

pblakeney

Dorset_Boy said:

Re lighter vs heavier: I suspect the lighter riders get thrown upwards by each bump more than the heavier riders, so power is wasted. Similar to the argument about not using 120 psi in your tyres.

Both responses seem logical.
I'd guess that lighter means less impact. I know as a heavier rider that it is not for me. 😉

blazing_saddles

tailwindhome said:

First sector of cobbles.
Deignan leads by 4/5 seconds

https://twitter.com/rouleur/status/1444286554017570817?s=19

So, the other thing we can see from this clip is that the peloton was already in bits on sector 1.
Mmm.

bobmcstuff

blazing_saddles said:

tailwindhome said:

First sector of cobbles.
Deignan leads by 4/5 seconds

https://twitter.com/rouleur/status/1444286554017570817?s=19

So, the other thing we can see from this clip is that the peloton was already in bits on sector 1.
Mmm.

I imagine the pace was pretty hot on the lead in to the first section.

Pross

jimmyjams said:

gsk82 said:

After a few hours of reflection has anyone changed their feelings about the women's race? A lone rider accidentally went off the front and despite not ever getting a massive lead was never really challenged. If it was AvV instead of Lizzie D I'm sure this discussion would have been totally different.

I think gsk82 may be correct about how the discussion would be different, had Deignan not won.
A couple of the women in their post-race interviews, one of whom I think was Cavalli (finished 9th), the other interviewee perhaps Brennauer (4th), said that they just didn't expect Deignan to carry on for so long; they thought her break a ploy to eventually help another Trek-Segafredo rider (van Djik?) and so didn't want to expend energy or take risks on the cobbles early on, in trying to catch Deignan.

So in the end, if albeit at a different level, Deignan was as lucky as the girl who won the Olympics RR gold medal. (I'm not trying to be disparaging, Deignan was very well worth her win – always looked on top of things during her ride – but there is that extra factor that she was allowed to go without resistance in the first place)

(As another aside, I also don't believe Vos was advantaged by the motos, despite some of Pross's remarks – camera shots give a false idea of perspective, and there is no reason why a French camera crew should favour a Dutchie over a Brit)

You could see it in some overhead shots. I think it was the bike reporting for ES with Iris Slappandel on the back but not sure. Also, just before she attacked a bike ridden by (I think) a gendarme forced its way past the chase group virtually touching them.

I think calling it luck is harsh though. If it was a tactical ploy and they failed to react to the danger that's racing. She is one of the top female riders and has won from long range in the past (I think she won her World title solo from a fair way out). No one called Cancellara's long range win luck.

No_Ta_Doctor

It's clearly not luck if you create a situation and your opposition fail to deal with it effectively, even if it's not the original plan.