Paris Roubaix 2021 pre race chat

diamonddog

A great win for Lizzie, she did what Froome did in the Giro took it on from a long way out and the peloton failed to react.

davidof

Pross said:

I think calling it luck is harsh though. If it was a tactical ploy and they failed to react to the danger that's racing. She is one of the top female riders and has won from long range in the past (I think she won her World title solo from a fair way out). No one called Cancellara's long range win luck.

She won the Omloop in 2016 from a long range attack launched off a short climb where the bunch didn't follow. So she has form.

She was clearly one of the best bike handlers on the day, the equal of Vos the Cyclocrosser. At 32 she's clearly got huge experience.

The race suffered to some extent from being the first of this type for the women (I think Audrey Cordon made the same point) so there was some reluctance to take big risks even if everyone had trained on the cobbles beforehand.

blazing_saddles

So, due to the weather, a 3 star sector becomes a 5 star sector. Excellent.

davieb78

blazing_saddles said:

tailwindhome said:

First sector of cobbles.
Deignan leads by 4/5 seconds

https://twitter.com/rouleur/status/1444286554017570817?s=19

So, the other thing we can see from this clip is that the peloton was already in bits on sector 1.
Mmm.

There was a crash not long before the first sector which broke things up. This from AvV’s webpage this morning:

Quite early in the match Annemiek was already on the ground for the first time. “For the first stretch I was behind a crash. I actually fell over that. It was Kasia Niewiadoma who fell there where it was a big fight to sit up front on the first section. I could continue, but by then my course was already over. Then I thought; I drive well and took girls with me in my wheel. I wanted to drive out to experience it once. They say 'choose your battles' and I already knew that this was not my battle."

Unfortunately it still went wrong after that. “Just before the Carrefour de l'Arbre, with 15 kilometers to go, I was behind two girls from Parkhotel Valkenburg. They slipped. As a result, I also had to brake and I fell, a fall in which I broke my pelvis in two places and also broke my shoulder. So at that time I was just driving to get to the finish, but now I'm really disappointed that I didn't just get off, because I have to pay a high price for this."

DeVlaeminck

I actually didn't enjoy watching it just because of the crashes - you know what it's like to hit the tarmac hard and cobbles if anything must be worse.

Well done to them because I wouldn't race it - I've ridden the Arenberg in a rain storm and my plan to follow Boonen's advice to hit it hard in a big gear lasted about as long as it took me to slow down to about 10mph (if that) and pick my way across - and I was on a cross bike too!

ddraver

Kinda agree. It made for an even more brutal race but I'm not 100% sure it made it a better race

bm5

Those pictures of Deignan’s move are great Thanks

yorkshireraw

Pross said:

jimmyjams said:

gsk82 said:

After a few hours of reflection has anyone changed their feelings about the women's race? A lone rider accidentally went off the front and despite not ever getting a massive lead was never really challenged. If it was AvV instead of Lizzie D I'm sure this discussion would have been totally different.

I think gsk82 may be correct about how the discussion would be different, had Deignan not won.
A couple of the women in their post-race interviews, one of whom I think was Cavalli (finished 9th), the other interviewee perhaps Brennauer (4th), said that they just didn't expect Deignan to carry on for so long; they thought her break a ploy to eventually help another Trek-Segafredo rider (van Djik?) and so didn't want to expend energy or take risks on the cobbles early on, in trying to catch Deignan.

So in the end, if albeit at a different level, Deignan was as lucky as the girl who won the Olympics RR gold medal. (I'm not trying to be disparaging, Deignan was very well worth her win – always looked on top of things during her ride – but there is that extra factor that she was allowed to go without resistance in the first place)

(As another aside, I also don't believe Vos was advantaged by the motos, despite some of Pross's remarks – camera shots give a false idea of perspective, and there is no reason why a French camera crew should favour a Dutchie over a Brit)

You could see it in some overhead shots. I think it was the bike reporting for ES with Iris Slappandel on the back but not sure. Also, just before she attacked a bike ridden by (I think) a gendarme forced its way past the chase group virtually touching them.

I think calling it luck is harsh though. If it was a tactical ploy and they failed to react to the danger that's racing. She is one of the top female riders and has won from long range in the past (I think she won her World title solo from a fair way out). No one called Cancellara's long range win luck.

Her world's win was a sprint, think she won Flanders solo.

davidof

yorkshireraw said:

Her world's win was a sprint, think she won Flanders solo.

No, it was the Omloop as I already said above.

andyp

Her Flanders win was in a two-up sprint with Emma Johannson.

shirley_basso

I have to say the woman's, while the intrigue wasn't there, was still a brilliant edition and there's a lot of promise for next year.

davidof

shirley_basso said:

I have to say the woman's, while the intrigue wasn't there, was still a brilliant edition and there's a lot of promise for next year.

2021 Women's Paris Roubaix, aka One woman's battle, alone, on some bad roads



I don't know if it can improve or be marketed better. Spectators would help a bit. Falling off a bit less would help for most of the peleton although it was a bit of a laugh from the comfort of my armchair. Putting up a serious chase, aka racing would also help the spectacle.

For me, women's racing has been a bit "meh" this year. More events, a bit more money, fancy teams, less racing. (and yes I've watched a lot of the races over the years both on TV and at the road side).

shirley_basso

I think the dynamics of the race will change with time as the women get more experienced.

davidof

shirley_basso said:

I think the dynamics of the race will change with time as the women get more experienced.

It's obviously a big jump up from even the Strade Bianchi or spring classics and things take time. An Alaphillipe (60kgs) won't ride the PR due to his size and he's bigger and more powerful than most of the women's peleton.

I think talk of equal prize money or making it much longer is premature tbh. Work needs to be done on getting people interested in this side of the sport.

Given the bike handling on Saturday I'd hate to imagine the spectacle if the women's event had run on the Sunday. Maybe just a few cyclocrossers would have made it.

blazing_saddles

davidof said:

shirley_basso said:

I think the dynamics of the race will change with time as the women get more experienced.

It's obviously a big jump up from even the Strade Bianchi or spring classics and things take time. An Alaphillipe (60kgs) won't ride the PR due to his size and he's bigger and more powerful than most of the women's peleton.

I think talk of equal prize money or making it much longer is premature tbh. Work needs to be done on getting people interested in this side of the sport.

Given the bike handling on Saturday I'd hate to imagine the spectacle if the women's event had run on the Sunday. Maybe just a few cyclocrossers would have made it.

I know there is a groundswell of opinion that supports equal prize money for both men and women, but in this case, it's definitely not that simple.

While it was "unique" and immediately placed on the WWT calendar, the first edition of a women's Paris - Roubaix was in no way shape or form, one of their top, one day races of the season.
Excluding La Course, which thanks to the ASO, has had little merit, there are 10 historical and established "classic" women's races.

Meanwhile, the men's Paris-Roubaix, is undoubtedly, along with Flanders, at the very pinnacle of the sport.

In this case I think that some differentiation should remain, until the event becomes more established.

Pross

I never even consider prize money in Pro cycling for some reason. Probably as it is pretty rubbish when you give it any thought but then they're paid a salary unlike other sports with good prize money. When you think about the structure of Pro cycling it's just weirdly unique anyway e.g. all the Belgian DQS riders last week riding to help someone on a rival team wear the rainbow stripes next season (or maybe they weren't which was the problem).

bobmcstuff

Would be easier to be more interested in it of they actually showed the first half of the race - we missed 4 cobbled sections and the race was already completely in pieces by the time we joined it.

Part of the fun in the men's is the selections that happen on the cobbled sectors through the day.

On the prize money- I can understand it being less to an extent, but it was really very low (although surely having a slightly more respectable prize pot than they did have would have shown it was being taken seriously etc). Apparently Trek are making up the difference - a cheap gesture relatively but a very visible one.

davidof

bobmcstuff said:

Would be easier to be more interested in it of they actually showed the first half of the race - we missed 4 cobbled sections and the race was already completely in pieces by the time we joined it.

Part of the fun in the men's is the selections that happen on the cobbled sectors through the day.

On the prize money- I can understand it being less to an extent, but it was really very low (although surely having a slightly more respectable prize pot than they did have would have shown it was being taken seriously etc). Apparently Trek are making up the difference - a cheap gesture relatively but a very visible one.

Trek making up the difference because their woman won it?

Yes it might help all women's racing to have fuller broadcasts. I dunno, would it be too long due to lack of action? I think the women's peleton need to have a conversation with themselves before making more demands though - how can be make this more interesting?

bobmcstuff

davidof said:

Yes it might help all women's racing to have fuller broadcasts. I dunno, would it be too long due to lack of action? I think the women's peleton need to have a conversation with themselves before making more demands though - how can be make this more interesting?

Tough argument to make on Saturday, given Deignan was already out ahead before we got pictures - all of the key selections happened before coverage started so not sure how you can argue it would be less interesting...

davidof said:

Trek making up the difference because their woman won it?

They said this before the race. So unless they are psychic?

r0bh

davidof said:

Trek making up the difference because their woman won it?

No, they've been doing it all season I think.

flite

Problem is that most folks do not have the time/opportunity/inclination to watch an entire 5-6 hour bike race. But the whole lot needs to be filmed so it can be edited to produce a good highlights programme (without too many talking heads). Something the BBC spectaculaly failed to do for the Olympics Cycling events - just one example.

DeVlaeminck

I'm not sure there would be an appetite for an extended highlights package - especially as most people know the result in advance these days.

For me if we are going to really increase the profile of women's racing then it's going to have to come through aligning the women's calendar with the men's through major races being encouraged and or compelled to run a women's equivalent with at least a certain amount of live coverage. I get that PR is an example of this but if say at least 2 hours live coverage is available the amount of times we miss the key move should be minimal.

pblakeney

DeVlaeminck said:

I'm not sure there would be an appetite for an extended highlights package - especially as most people know the result in advance these days.

For me if we are going to really increase the profile of women's racing then it's going to have to come through aligning the women's calendar with the men's through major races being encouraged and or compelled to run a women's equivalent with at least a certain amount of live coverage. I get that PR is an example of this but if say at least 2 hours live coverage is available the amount of times we miss the key move should be minimal.

The women's coverage of PR was 2-1/2 hours long and still apparently missed key moves. This tallies with the men's GTs. Races are now beginning from the start instead of some glass pedalling to warm up.
Full coverage is the only way not to miss key moves.

Dorset_Boy

I assume the whole race is being covered, if not live. They could therefore do a recap of the race so far before going live. How long that recap lasts will be dependent on the action that has taken place.

I do think there would be some appetite for an extended highlights programme of the one dayers.

ddraver

So where are we on the "cycling is much better when we can only read about it afterwards" thing then...

Most (I mean...it's actually all) of us grew up on 'only' being able to see the last 2.5 hours of a race and thought it was more than acceptable

orraloon

pblakeney said:

The women's coverage of PR was 2-1/2 hours long and still apparently missed key moves. This tallies with the men's GTs. Races are now beginning from the start instead of some glass pedalling to warm up.
Full coverage is the only way not to miss key moves.

I had Women's PR on from start of coverage by Eurosport, with a lot of filler by Orla, Maggie plus. Did get to point of 'stop talking, show race' when Orla stated the ASO supplied feed was due to start at whatever time. So if organisers don't supply feed, broadcaster can't provide edited highlights of what has happened up until now.

kingstongraham

Women's race had live coverage from 52km to go. About 85 minutes.

pblakeney

kingstongraham said:

Women's race had live coverage from 52km to go. About 85 minutes.

That's interesting. I only saw the schedule.
Shows how much filler there is.

blazing_saddles

pblakeney said:

kingstongraham said:

Women's race had live coverage from 52km to go. About 85 minutes.

That's interesting. I only saw the schedule.
Shows how much filler there is.

I think they had a few technical issues so we didn’t get quite as much coverage as intended.

It’s not as if this isn’t a regular problem.

We didn’t see Evenepoel make his winning attack yesterday as half Rai’s coverage was lost to the weather.

TheBigBean

Which sports have successful self funding women's events? Tennis is one example, does golf count? Athletics perhaps. Anyway, I think finding a successful example and then trying to replicate it is the best idea although it is worth noting that even in tennis, the women's game is watched less than the men's game.