TDF 2021: Stage 12, Saint-Paul-Trois-Châteaux > Nîmes 159.4 km **Spoilers**

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  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,913
    Kms ticking past real quick
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • dish_dash
    dish_dash Posts: 5,647

    phreak said:

    Can't see Morkov in the rider list at https://racecenter.letour.fr/en/riders/12 . Cav is at the back, no sign of his lead-out man.

    Some riders have had very quiet participation so far this Tour, including De Ghent and Dan Martin. Recovering from injury, or something else going on?

    de Gendt was saying that the race is just too quick this year. His numbers are still good but what would previously have got him into the break has had him in the grupetto. Said he will probably retire when his contract ends if it continues.
    GvA saying the same, as is Gilbert.
    Sounds a bit grumpy old men tbh .... But it has been full on
    It’s more “my numbers are the same but they don’t do the job anymore”
    I don't think there's much doubt the racing has been full on this year. I remember a Giro a couple of years ago where we were all saying it was so much more fun than the Tour because of the chaos full on charge from the gun each morning.

    I don't know if this is the new usual, or just this tour edition. But Rolf and Chris Anker are suggesting the kids just don't ask permission any more. There's no "pay your dues for two seasons, then you can race", they want to race and they want to race hard, stuff the old guys if they don't like it.
    Belgium is definitely raising some eyebrows, but because WvA is one of them they're being a bit quiet.
    So what's the thinking? Some magic drug sweeping the peloton but only benefiting the younger generation?

    I reckon last year marked a step change. With lockdown you saw a change in training style with some older school rider training plans no longer cutting it. Plus a strong younger generation who are knocking on the door and wanting to start racing hard earlier and it's little surprise that yesterday's greats are struggling.
  • N0bodyOfTheGoat
    N0bodyOfTheGoat Posts: 6,069
    As above, I think some riders gave turbo riding a real go during the pandemic and have found another level.
    ================
    2020 Voodoo Marasa
    2017 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016
    2016 Voodoo Wazoo
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    dish_dash said:

    phreak said:

    Can't see Morkov in the rider list at https://racecenter.letour.fr/en/riders/12 . Cav is at the back, no sign of his lead-out man.

    Some riders have had very quiet participation so far this Tour, including De Ghent and Dan Martin. Recovering from injury, or something else going on?

    de Gendt was saying that the race is just too quick this year. His numbers are still good but what would previously have got him into the break has had him in the grupetto. Said he will probably retire when his contract ends if it continues.
    GvA saying the same, as is Gilbert.
    Sounds a bit grumpy old men tbh .... But it has been full on
    It’s more “my numbers are the same but they don’t do the job anymore”
    I don't think there's much doubt the racing has been full on this year. I remember a Giro a couple of years ago where we were all saying it was so much more fun than the Tour because of the chaos full on charge from the gun each morning.

    I don't know if this is the new usual, or just this tour edition. But Rolf and Chris Anker are suggesting the kids just don't ask permission any more. There's no "pay your dues for two seasons, then you can race", they want to race and they want to race hard, stuff the old guys if they don't like it.
    Belgium is definitely raising some eyebrows, but because WvA is one of them they're being a bit quiet.
    So what's the thinking? Some magic drug sweeping the peloton but only benefiting the younger generation?

    I reckon last year marked a step change. With lockdown you saw a change in training style with some older school rider training plans no longer cutting it. Plus a strong younger generation who are knocking on the door and wanting to start racing hard earlier and it's little surprise that yesterday's greats are struggling.
    They're not as into doping chat as they are in the anglo world, but they just talk about a new "gear" (that is not a doping pun over there) since lockdown.

    I mean lockdown was not a helpful time for dope testers and there was some concern about that at the time.

    It probably is just the older guys getting tired and the new guys with fresher legs coming at them with better training etc, but we've seen it before so we shouldn't discount.

    After all, people aren't getting popped and presumably some people are cheating, so what are the cheaters using?
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,156
    Pogaswagger
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,692

    phreak said:

    Can't see Morkov in the rider list at https://racecenter.letour.fr/en/riders/12 . Cav is at the back, no sign of his lead-out man.

    Some riders have had very quiet participation so far this Tour, including De Ghent and Dan Martin. Recovering from injury, or something else going on?

    de Gendt was saying that the race is just too quick this year. His numbers are still good but what would previously have got him into the break has had him in the grupetto. Said he will probably retire when his contract ends if it continues.
    GvA saying the same, as is Gilbert.
    Sounds a bit grumpy old men tbh .... But it has been full on
    It’s more “my numbers are the same but they don’t do the job anymore”
    I don't think there's much doubt the racing has been full on this year. I remember a Giro a couple of years ago where we were all saying it was so much more fun than the Tour because of the chaos full on charge from the gun each morning.

    I don't know if this is the new usual, or just this tour edition. But Rolf and Chris Anker are suggesting the kids just don't ask permission any more. There's no "pay your dues for two seasons, then you can race", they want to race and they want to race hard, stuff the old guys if they don't like it.
    Belgium is definitely raising some eyebrows, but because WvA is one of them they're being a bit quiet.
    I think it's a natural development tbh. I mean obviously there's always the possibility of some illegal shenanigans going on, but this generation were kids last time Lance was in a race.

    The current racing is shaped by the professionalisation that Sky brought, the globalisation of teams, the diversification of the rider base to include far more nations, the teams from non-traditional nations that can't exist on local races, wildcards and defending a top 20 tour gc...

    Then you add in the gt competition to find the most hypeable parcours...

    The young riders are coming into that with better data, nutrition, tech - and more competition for team places. I think it was Rasmus Byriel Iversen that was left without a contract as he wasn't finishing enough races. He put in his shift early on, and then stepped off. He thought he was doing his job fine, but being a conscientious domestique wasn't enough.
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  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,913
    Doesn't look like 30 sec gap to that roundabout
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,613
    All that early promise gone to waste on what has become a standard transition day.
  • davidof
    davidof Posts: 3,127

    As above, I think some riders gave turbo riding a real go during the pandemic and have found another level.

    Hmmmm, racing on Zwift has created a new super generation of cyclists. I'm not convinced.
    BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
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  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406

    Correlation is not causation.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,731
    Kung pops.
    Only Politt able to respond.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,692
    If you were a parent of a talented teenage rider in the late 90s what career advice would you have given? "go to university" maybe?
    10 years later that starts to look different.
    And that's just at the very start of a young career.
    At the step up to pro, if you believe everyone is doped you either dope or quit. If you believe clean results are possible then maybe you just push harder.
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  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,692
    Pollit goes
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  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,731
    A huge cheers goes up from German dentists across the country.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,913
    Big gears 🤔 involved
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • N0bodyOfTheGoat
    N0bodyOfTheGoat Posts: 6,069
    Politt practising his Basking Shark impression.
    ================
    2020 Voodoo Marasa
    2017 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016
    2016 Voodoo Wazoo
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,228

    Pollit goes

    He's like a whale shark feeding.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Looks fast. Tailwind?
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406

    Politt practising his Basking Shark impression.



    Oh sorry, you said basking shark...
    Correlation is not causation.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,731

    Pollit goes

    He's like a whale shark feeding.
    Not a pearly white shark?
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,692

    Looks fast. Tailwind?

    Looks it. A bit cross as well for the peloton (don't hold your breath)
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  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,692

    Politt practising his Basking Shark impression.



    Oh sorry, you said basking shark...
    Stop it. You'll set @rick_chasey off. He's down wit da yoot* these days



    *very small children
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  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,692
    I honestly thought Pollit would have a Tour stage in his career already.
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  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,228

    I honestly thought Pollit would have a Tour stage in his career already.

    Only one win at all before today, Deutschland Tour stage in 2018. I'm surprised.
  • N0bodyOfTheGoat
    N0bodyOfTheGoat Posts: 6,069
    ~19min final 10 mile for Pollitt, average. ;)
    ================
    2020 Voodoo Marasa
    2017 Cube Attain GTC Pro Disc 2016
    2016 Voodoo Wazoo
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,731
    Ned Boulting said Sweeny can sprint.
    Great shout.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • dish_dash
    dish_dash Posts: 5,647
    davidof said:

    As above, I think some riders gave turbo riding a real go during the pandemic and have found another level.

    Hmmmm, racing on Zwift has created a new super generation of cyclists. I'm not convinced.
    Nah man... there is a new generation and they are super cyclists... happens pretty regularly actually. Combine a greater focus on nutrition, training, equipment (those aerobikes etc), and a desire to win... and the old fellas on big contracts are finding it tough going... lol...

    I'm fine with being sceptical, particularly given the history of the sport. I'm just interested what the magic juice might be...
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,444
    davidof said:

    As above, I think some riders gave turbo riding a real go during the pandemic and have found another level.

    Hmmmm, racing on Zwift has created a new super generation of cyclists. I'm not convinced.
    Isn't it more likely that those old school riders who couldn't hack turbo training during lockdown might be struggling for form a bit now compared to those who took to it a bit better. Not the turbo per se, but those who were able to train better during the lockdown.

    All hinges on whether these guys are really doing the same numbers as they were before. Bernal said the same as well.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,692

    Ned Boulting said Sweeny can sprint.
    Great shout.

    To be fair, it's a tricky call when they've been all day in the break the day after Ven2
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  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,692
    For the benefit of @rick_chasey and posterity Nils Pollit won.
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