Educashun ain't wot it used to be...
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I like the idea of an estate agent moonlighting as a rec con to place you in your current job. Maybe on bank holidays he could freelance as a traffic warden?shirley_basso said:
I'll see your recruitment consultants and raise you estate agents.surrey_commuter said:
recruitment consultants?TheBigBean said:Which professions are universally admired and respected?
To be fair I was very pleased with the one who placed me in my current job.0 -
No one on this thread has said that though, so it is something of a strawman.johngti said:The pension is excellent but it’s wrong to claim that teachers get 13 weeks off every year, that we start at 9am and finish by 3pm every day and that we can’t be sacked, implying that we don’t care. That trope is what gets annoying. Teachers work as hard as anyone and harder than some but it’s easy to claim otherwise.
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My neighbour is a primary school teacher, and I'm pretty sure those are her hours, give or take.TheBigBean said:
No one on this thread has said that though, so it is something of a strawman.johngti said:The pension is excellent but it’s wrong to claim that teachers get 13 weeks off every year, that we start at 9am and finish by 3pm every day and that we can’t be sacked, implying that we don’t care. That trope is what gets annoying. Teachers work as hard as anyone and harder than some but it’s easy to claim otherwise.
I am trolling now though.0 -
I believe the only one worthy of admiration is being an engineer in the nuclear sector. If you can do that you are qualified to tell any other profession how to do their job as you will know better than them.TheBigBean said:Which professions are universally admired and respected?
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johngti said:
Don’t put words into my mouth, please. Farming is blooming hard work. Lots of my family work in that sector and I know it’s far from a cushy number.briantrumpet said:johngti said:But, again, my point is that teaching, and therefore teachers, are not respected in the UK, along with public servants in other professions, and that needs to change.
Keep dreaming. It's the same with farmers - everyone is happy to have a pop at them, but if you had £2m, would you invest it in a farm and become a farmer? Why is it that so few young people want to become farmers, even if they get to inherit the farm, if it's so cushy?
Not for one minute putting those words into your mouth - I was merely drawing the parallel about perception versus the reality (if it's so easy/cushy, why aren't people queuing up to do it?)...0 -
Fair enough, sorry for the misunderstanding 🙂briantrumpet said:johngti said:
Don’t put words into my mouth, please. Farming is blooming hard work. Lots of my family work in that sector and I know it’s far from a cushy number.briantrumpet said:johngti said:But, again, my point is that teaching, and therefore teachers, are not respected in the UK, along with public servants in other professions, and that needs to change.
Keep dreaming. It's the same with farmers - everyone is happy to have a pop at them, but if you had £2m, would you invest it in a farm and become a farmer? Why is it that so few young people want to become farmers, even if they get to inherit the farm, if it's so cushy?
Not for one minute putting those words into your mouth - I was merely drawing the parallel about perception versus the reality (if it's so easy/cushy, why aren't people queuing up to do it?)...0 -
johngti said:
Fair enough, sorry for the misunderstanding 🙂briantrumpet said:johngti said:
Don’t put words into my mouth, please. Farming is blooming hard work. Lots of my family work in that sector and I know it’s far from a cushy number.briantrumpet said:johngti said:But, again, my point is that teaching, and therefore teachers, are not respected in the UK, along with public servants in other professions, and that needs to change.
Keep dreaming. It's the same with farmers - everyone is happy to have a pop at them, but if you had £2m, would you invest it in a farm and become a farmer? Why is it that so few young people want to become farmers, even if they get to inherit the farm, if it's so cushy?
Not for one minute putting those words into your mouth - I was merely drawing the parallel about perception versus the reality (if it's so easy/cushy, why aren't people queuing up to do it?)...
I was a herdsman for 14 years...
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I can see that if you are working in a low paid manual job, having to do 50 hours a week to provide your kids with the basics teachers (and most of us on here with middle class, professional jobs) probably appear to have a cushy life. If they then hear teaching Unions for the past year or so seemingly trying to keep your kids away from their schools and expecting you to help educate them from home whilst holding down that job you can perhaps see why they might not be happy. I suspect most of us on here are relatively fortunate and perhaps don't understand how hard the last 15 months will have been for those who can't work from home and juggle working with the other committments.
As someone else said, the teaching Unions probably add to the negative perception many have of the profession - it's not a job I would do and I respect those that do it but surely they go into it with their eyes fairly wide open? After all, teachers have been raising the same issues for as long as I can remember.0 -
Ah, sorry. No idea. An extraordinarily difficult thing to assess. Without reopening the exam debate, I think difficulty of completing a course and passing an exam is an inaccurate assessor of ability at a given job. I think the original point was about the difficulty of trying to teach remotely at the same time as teaching the rest of the class in school.First.Aspect said:
No, a PGCE is hard compared to what?rjsterry said:
Those who have just taken a computer home and carried on much the same bar a few more Zoom meetings.First.Aspect said:
Hard compared to what?TheBigBean said:
It does sound like quite a hard year which probably doesn't encourage applicants from other industries.First.Aspect said:
Most professions involve training, as in taking professional exams over several years. You didn't need a postgrad degree to get into teaching, but you do need a teaching qualification. That takes a year and there are lots of incentives to try. Over in the blink of an eye compared with some professions. Worth a punt - which is possibly why so many people do, then leave.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
😂TheBigBean said:Which professions are universally admired and respected?
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I've come to the conclusion that most people have very little idea about any profession (in the widest sense) other than their own. At the same time everyone has an opinion on what other people should charge/should be paid. Particularly the 'social worker' part of the job which relies on seeing people face to face.briantrumpet said:johngti said:But, again, my point is that teaching, and therefore teachers, are not respected in the UK, along with public servants in other professions, and that needs to change.
Keep dreaming. It's the same with farmers - everyone is happy to have a pop at them, but if you had £2m, would you invest it in a farm and become a farmer? Why is it that so few young people want to become farmers, even if they get to inherit the farm, if it's so cushy?1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
@Johngti - to give you an idea of the value of your pension scheme....
If career average earnings were £40k pa, and you did 40 years in the 1/60th CA scheme giving you an initial pension of £26,800 pa, with a 50% spouse's pension, retiring at 60, the cost of purchasing that on the open market would be in the region of £1,100,000.
Scarily, the average personal pension pot at retirement is around £62,000.
In reality, a teacher with that amount of service will have a mix of final salary and career average pension.
People in the public sector generally don't have a scooby about how valuable their pension is.
In no way am I trying to suggest teaching is easy or not valuable.0 -
Wow. Although the 60th average salary scheme needs you to be 67. That’s the one I’ll fall under; the 80th/age 60 scheme was the one I had to opt out of due to not being able to eliminate my ex in a less expensive manner.
I know the pension is excellent though, keeping my eye on the prize and hoping I’m fit enough to enjoy it when my time comes!0 -
Value of a 1/80th scheme and a 1/60th scheme is basically the same - the difference being an automatic entitlement to a lump sum at retirement under an 80th scheme, whereas under a 60th scheme you have to commute some of the income for the lump sum.
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Right. So is it fair to assume you’re in the pensions game? Think I’ll have about 16-17 years in on the 60th scheme and 6 or so on the 80th but the 80th has a pension sharing order so my ex gets 50%. Unless she pops her clogs before I retire I guess...Dorset_Boy said:Value of a 1/80th scheme and a 1/60th scheme is basically the same - the difference being an automatic entitlement to a lump sum at retirement under an 80th scheme, whereas under a 60th scheme you have to commute some of the income for the lump sum.
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Meh, I bet client management is a darn sight easier at Hinckley.Pross said:
I believe the only one worthy of admiration is being an engineer in the nuclear sector. If you can do that you are qualified to tell any other profession how to do their job as you will know better than them.TheBigBean said:Which professions are universally admired and respected?
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
To cheer you up still further you will be able to retire before 67 but a reduction factor will be applied of about 5% per year. Some of your accruals will have been at a younger retirement age so reduction will be less.johngti said:
Right. So is it fair to assume you’re in the pensions game? Think I’ll have about 16-17 years in on the 60th scheme and 6 or so on the 80th but the 80th has a pension sharing order so my ex gets 50%. Unless she pops her clogs before I retire I guess...Dorset_Boy said:Value of a 1/80th scheme and a 1/60th scheme is basically the same - the difference being an automatic entitlement to a lump sum at retirement under an 80th scheme, whereas under a 60th scheme you have to commute some of the income for the lump sum.
the above assumes similar rules as per a private sector scheme0 -
Ok ta. I’ll go beyond 60 so the first lot won’t be affected and then get some proper advice. Got to admit that keeping going until 67 doesn’t hold many attractions. Mortgage will be paid off when I’m 63 so all up for grabs then.surrey_commuter said:
To cheer you up still further you will be able to retire before 67 but a reduction factor will be applied of about 5% per year. Some of your accruals will have been at a younger retirement age so reduction will be less.johngti said:
Right. So is it fair to assume you’re in the pensions game? Think I’ll have about 16-17 years in on the 60th scheme and 6 or so on the 80th but the 80th has a pension sharing order so my ex gets 50%. Unless she pops her clogs before I retire I guess...Dorset_Boy said:Value of a 1/80th scheme and a 1/60th scheme is basically the same - the difference being an automatic entitlement to a lump sum at retirement under an 80th scheme, whereas under a 60th scheme you have to commute some of the income for the lump sum.
the above assumes similar rules as per a private sector scheme0 -
first lot will go up in value - but not as fast as they reducejohngti said:
Ok ta. I’ll go beyond 60 so the first lot won’t be affected and then get some proper advice. Got to admit that keeping going until 67 doesn’t hold many attractions. Mortgage will be paid off when I’m 63 so all up for grabs then.surrey_commuter said:
To cheer you up still further you will be able to retire before 67 but a reduction factor will be applied of about 5% per year. Some of your accruals will have been at a younger retirement age so reduction will be less.johngti said:
Right. So is it fair to assume you’re in the pensions game? Think I’ll have about 16-17 years in on the 60th scheme and 6 or so on the 80th but the 80th has a pension sharing order so my ex gets 50%. Unless she pops her clogs before I retire I guess...Dorset_Boy said:Value of a 1/80th scheme and a 1/60th scheme is basically the same - the difference being an automatic entitlement to a lump sum at retirement under an 80th scheme, whereas under a 60th scheme you have to commute some of the income for the lump sum.
the above assumes similar rules as per a private sector scheme0 -
You need to be careful with that on top of the comment about a more cost effective way to eliminate the ex!johngti said:
Right. So is it fair to assume you’re in the pensions game? Think I’ll have about 16-17 years in on the 60th scheme and 6 or so on the 80th but the 80th has a pension sharing order so my ex gets 50%. Unless she pops her clogs before I retire I guess...Dorset_Boy said:Value of a 1/80th scheme and a 1/60th scheme is basically the same - the difference being an automatic entitlement to a lump sum at retirement under an 80th scheme, whereas under a 60th scheme you have to commute some of the income for the lump sum.
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There are people you can call to arrange that sort of thing. Based on recent news up here, the going rate to knock off a celeb is £10k. Not sure about your ex though John.Pross said:
You need to be careful with that on top of the comment about a more cost effective way to eliminate the ex!johngti said:
Right. So is it fair to assume you’re in the pensions game? Think I’ll have about 16-17 years in on the 60th scheme and 6 or so on the 80th but the 80th has a pension sharing order so my ex gets 50%. Unless she pops her clogs before I retire I guess...Dorset_Boy said:Value of a 1/80th scheme and a 1/60th scheme is basically the same - the difference being an automatic entitlement to a lump sum at retirement under an 80th scheme, whereas under a 60th scheme you have to commute some of the income for the lump sum.
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Well she’s no celebrity so...0
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First.Aspect said:
There are people you can call to arrange that sort of thing. Based on recent news up here, the going rate to knock off a celeb is £10k. Not sure about your ex though John.Pross said:
You need to be careful with that on top of the comment about a more cost effective way to eliminate the ex!johngti said:
Right. So is it fair to assume you’re in the pensions game? Think I’ll have about 16-17 years in on the 60th scheme and 6 or so on the 80th but the 80th has a pension sharing order so my ex gets 50%. Unless she pops her clogs before I retire I guess...Dorset_Boy said:Value of a 1/80th scheme and a 1/60th scheme is basically the same - the difference being an automatic entitlement to a lump sum at retirement under an 80th scheme, whereas under a 60th scheme you have to commute some of the income for the lump sum.
Would someone from the EU be cheaper?
Oh, sorry, forget that, no freedom of movement for assassins now.0 -
It is okay if they don't stay for more than 90 days.briantrumpet said:First.Aspect said:
There are people you can call to arrange that sort of thing. Based on recent news up here, the going rate to knock off a celeb is £10k. Not sure about your ex though John.Pross said:
You need to be careful with that on top of the comment about a more cost effective way to eliminate the ex!johngti said:
Right. So is it fair to assume you’re in the pensions game? Think I’ll have about 16-17 years in on the 60th scheme and 6 or so on the 80th but the 80th has a pension sharing order so my ex gets 50%. Unless she pops her clogs before I retire I guess...Dorset_Boy said:Value of a 1/80th scheme and a 1/60th scheme is basically the same - the difference being an automatic entitlement to a lump sum at retirement under an 80th scheme, whereas under a 60th scheme you have to commute some of the income for the lump sum.
Would someone from the EU be cheaper?
Oh, sorry, forget that, no freedom of movement for assassins now.0 -
Yet another vast over inflation in hours calculation right there. Let's assume you have Sunday off the you are working slightly under or over 10 per day. If you have a commute then you are working 12 hour days. Bullshitting on hours does not impress anyone.johngti said:Oh, and teaching 21 hours per week is the actual, in the class in front of kids teaching bit. There’s routine marking and preparation on top of that which adds another 15-20 hours plus meetings and other responsibilities. So a typical working week is more like 50-55 hours. Newer teachers are probably doing more like 60-65 hours. Every teacher’s contract specifies 1295 hours per year over 195 days (directed time, under the control of the head teacher). But every contract includes a clause about doing whatever else is needed for the efficient delivery of the role. Nobody works for 1295 hours per year.
Sorry, didn’t mean to rant.
I have yet to know a teacher personally that books these hours over the year and this is of a sample size of at least 20 teachers across primary and secondary education.0 -
Follow them around with a stopwatch did you? 8 till 8, door to door is hardly that unusual in any profession.john80 said:
Yet another vast over inflation in hours calculation right there. Let's assume you have Sunday off the you are working slightly under or over 10 per day. If you have a commute then you are working 12 hour days. Bullshitting on hours does not impress anyone.johngti said:Oh, and teaching 21 hours per week is the actual, in the class in front of kids teaching bit. There’s routine marking and preparation on top of that which adds another 15-20 hours plus meetings and other responsibilities. So a typical working week is more like 50-55 hours. Newer teachers are probably doing more like 60-65 hours. Every teacher’s contract specifies 1295 hours per year over 195 days (directed time, under the control of the head teacher). But every contract includes a clause about doing whatever else is needed for the efficient delivery of the role. Nobody works for 1295 hours per year.
Sorry, didn’t mean to rant.
I have yet to know a teacher personally that books these hours over the year and this is of a sample size of at least 20 teachers across primary and secondary education.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I am sure you will be along in a minute with some bullshit about hours. I worked 105 hours a week in lockdown between home schooling and engineering. Don't worry about the maths I just added what school teachers say they do to my actual hours engineering. I took Sunday off and started at 0400 so I could knock off at 2115. Lucky there was no commute to add. As I was part of the teaching community I expect that what I have stated be taken at face value.Pross said:
I believe the only one worthy of admiration is being an engineer in the nuclear sector. If you can do that you are qualified to tell any other profession how to do their job as you will know better than them.TheBigBean said:Which professions are universally admired and respected?
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This thread seems to have touched a nerve.john80 said:
Yet another vast over inflation in hours calculation right there. Let's assume you have Sunday off the you are working slightly under or over 10 per day. If you have a commute then you are working 12 hour days. Bullshitting on hours does not impress anyone.johngti said:Oh, and teaching 21 hours per week is the actual, in the class in front of kids teaching bit. There’s routine marking and preparation on top of that which adds another 15-20 hours plus meetings and other responsibilities. So a typical working week is more like 50-55 hours. Newer teachers are probably doing more like 60-65 hours. Every teacher’s contract specifies 1295 hours per year over 195 days (directed time, under the control of the head teacher). But every contract includes a clause about doing whatever else is needed for the efficient delivery of the role. Nobody works for 1295 hours per year.
Sorry, didn’t mean to rant.
I have yet to know a teacher personally that books these hours over the year and this is of a sample size of at least 20 teachers across primary and secondary education.0 -
Bullshitting on hours does not impress anyone0
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Why would I? I'm not a teacher so don't know what hours they do. I suspect it varies widely like any other profession and I've already said their Unions contribute the their 'bad press' but you certainly act as though you can do pretty much any job better than the people who have trained to do it and that no job is harder that your own.john80 said:
I am sure you will be along in a minute with some bullshit about hours. I worked 105 hours a week in lockdown between home schooling and engineering. Don't worry about the maths I just added what school teachers say they do to my actual hours engineering. I took Sunday off and started at 0400 so I could knock off at 2115. Lucky there was no commute to add. As I was part of the teaching community I expect that what I have stated be taken at face value.Pross said:
I believe the only one worthy of admiration is being an engineer in the nuclear sector. If you can do that you are qualified to tell any other profession how to do their job as you will know better than them.TheBigBean said:Which professions are universally admired and respected?
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