Educashun ain't wot it used to be...

shirley_basso

You talking about the surveying masters?

rjsterry

No, architecture.

Part 1 - 3 year degree
Part 2 - 1 year in work + 2 year degree after (some courses run the first year of Part 2 course alongside the work placement).
Part 3 - min. 1 more year working + 1 year PgDip concluding with professional exams.

rick_chasey

So since it's education, I've been looking at local schools/nurseries round here in Cambridge.

Noticed a number of independent schools are actively selling themselves as more liberal and open minded than the state schools. On the phone to one of them this morning "we try to shun the anti-international attitude that you see in the state schools. We embrace second languages, for example."

Was a bit slack jawed when I heard that.

TheBigBean

rjsterry said:

No, architecture.

Part 1 - 3 year degree
Part 2 - 1 year in work + 2 year degree after (some courses run the first year of Part 2 course alongside the work placement).
Part 3 - min. 1 more year working + 1 year PgDip concluding with professional exams.

Always sounded like hard work to me.

pinkbikini

pblakeney said:

pinkbikini said:

pblakeney said:

pinkbikini said:

pblakeney said:

Dorset_Boy said:

Should the 'Froms' not actually be 'Tos', because otherwise it isn't making sense?

Educashun isn't what it used to be. 🤣
Should be a "from" and a "to" to give context.

Any potential new targets haven’t been set, ...

Ah. So yet another clickbait-non-story.
(The OP is a screenshot/photo, not a link)

It’s a prediction on what’s likely to happen, based on Treasury desire to limit exposure to unpaid loans (forecast to rise due to introduction of continuous adult learning courses).

If you do some research you’ll find it’s not a ‘clickbait non-story’ at all.

Was it badly worded, yes or no?
Frankly my dear.....

Well I really don’t care to argue with you either.

But since you asked and seem to want a binary response, it was not badly worded. You mis-interpreted.

pblakeney

pinkbikini said:

pblakeney said:

pinkbikini said:

pblakeney said:

pinkbikini said:

pblakeney said:

Dorset_Boy said:

Should the 'Froms' not actually be 'Tos', because otherwise it isn't making sense?

Educashun isn't what it used to be. 🤣
Should be a "from" and a "to" to give context.

Any potential new targets haven’t been set, ...

Ah. So yet another clickbait-non-story.
(The OP is a screenshot/photo, not a link)

It’s a prediction on what’s likely to happen, based on Treasury desire to limit exposure to unpaid loans (forecast to rise due to introduction of continuous adult learning courses).

If you do some research you’ll find it’s not a ‘clickbait non-story’ at all.

Was it badly worded, yes or no?
Frankly my dear.....

Well I really don’t care to argue with you either.

But since you asked and seem to want a binary response, it was not badly worded. You mis-interpreted.

Tbf, my interest has lowered from 50%.

briantrumpet

rick_chasey said:

So since it's education, I've been looking at local schools/nurseries round here in Cambridge.

Noticed a number of independent schools are actively selling themselves as more liberal and open minded than the state schools. On the phone to one of them this morning "we try to shun the anti-international attitude that you see in the state schools. We embrace second languages, for example."

Was a bit slack jawed when I heard that.

Whatever the business, I hate it when they feel it's a good idea to (openly or by implication) criticise another business/institution. Just say what you do well.

First.Aspect

rick_chasey said:

So since it's education, I've been looking at local schools/nurseries round here in Cambridge.

Noticed a number of independent schools are actively selling themselves as more liberal and open minded than the state schools. On the phone to one of them this morning "we try to shun the anti-international attitude that you see in the state schools. We embrace second languages, for example."

Was a bit slack jawed when I heard that.

Is it actually based on anything though? I mean have you ever spoken to a teacher at an independent school? "Living in a bubble" doesn't quite do the experience justice.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

So since it's education, I've been looking at local schools/nurseries round here in Cambridge.

Noticed a number of independent schools are actively selling themselves as more liberal and open minded than the state schools. On the phone to one of them this morning "we try to shun the anti-international attitude that you see in the state schools. We embrace second languages, for example."

Was a bit slack jawed when I heard that.

My conversation with a local private nursery.

Me: "I was wondering if I could come and look around"
Nursery: "Have you registered and paid the registration fee?"
Me:"Er, what's that?"
Nursery:"It's a £100, non-refundable fee"
Me:"To look around?"
Nursery:"Yes, but actually we only have waiting list places available for the year are in interested in"
Me:"So, if I pay the fee, join the waiting list and you then have no places, do you refund it?"
Nursery:"No".

rjsterry

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

No, architecture.

Part 1 - 3 year degree
Part 2 - 1 year in work + 2 year degree after (some courses run the first year of Part 2 course alongside the work placement).
Part 3 - min. 1 more year working + 1 year PgDip concluding with professional exams.

Always sounded like hard work to me.

😁

rjsterry

rick_chasey said:

So since it's education, I've been looking at local schools/nurseries round here in Cambridge.

Noticed a number of independent schools are actively selling themselves as more liberal and open minded than the state schools. On the phone to one of them this morning "we try to shun the anti-international attitude that you see in the state schools. We embrace second languages, for example."

Was a bit slack jawed when I heard that.

I mean it's nonsense. There is no anti-international attitude that I've seen.

Jezyboy

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

So since it's education, I've been looking at local schools/nurseries round here in Cambridge.

Noticed a number of independent schools are actively selling themselves as more liberal and open minded than the state schools. On the phone to one of them this morning "we try to shun the anti-international attitude that you see in the state schools. We embrace second languages, for example."

Was a bit slack jawed when I heard that.

I mean it's nonsense. There is no anti-international attitude that I've seen.

Maybe the state schools are better in your part of the country?!

I think my school tended to be a bit jingoistic, at least as much as anywhere was in the noughties.

rjsterry

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

So since it's education, I've been looking at local schools/nurseries round here in Cambridge.

Noticed a number of independent schools are actively selling themselves as more liberal and open minded than the state schools. On the phone to one of them this morning "we try to shun the anti-international attitude that you see in the state schools. We embrace second languages, for example."

Was a bit slack jawed when I heard that.

My conversation with a local private nursery.

Me: "I was wondering if I could come and look around"
Nursery: "Have you registered and paid the registration fee?"
Me:"Er, what's that?"
Nursery:"It's a £100, non-refundable fee"
Me:"To look around?"
Nursery:"Yes, but actually we only have waiting list places available for the year are in interested in"
Me:"So, if I pay the fee, join the waiting list and you then have no places, do you refund it?"
Nursery:"No".

Marketed at the kind of people to whom £100 is a tip added to the bill of a nice meal.

TheBigBean

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

So since it's education, I've been looking at local schools/nurseries round here in Cambridge.

Noticed a number of independent schools are actively selling themselves as more liberal and open minded than the state schools. On the phone to one of them this morning "we try to shun the anti-international attitude that you see in the state schools. We embrace second languages, for example."

Was a bit slack jawed when I heard that.

My conversation with a local private nursery.

Me: "I was wondering if I could come and look around"
Nursery: "Have you registered and paid the registration fee?"
Me:"Er, what's that?"
Nursery:"It's a £100, non-refundable fee"
Me:"To look around?"
Nursery:"Yes, but actually we only have waiting list places available for the year are in interested in"
Me:"So, if I pay the fee, join the waiting list and you then have no places, do you refund it?"
Nursery:"No".

Marketed at the kind of people to whom £100 is a tip added to the bill of a nice meal.

That was my conclusion. It's a selection process and I'm not cut out for it. He did really sell me on it though by telling me that they had this problem where some parents would view the nursery and then not apply. As a result they had to introduce this fee.

First.Aspect

Jezyboy said:

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

So since it's education, I've been looking at local schools/nurseries round here in Cambridge.

Noticed a number of independent schools are actively selling themselves as more liberal and open minded than the state schools. On the phone to one of them this morning "we try to shun the anti-international attitude that you see in the state schools. We embrace second languages, for example."

Was a bit slack jawed when I heard that.

I mean it's nonsense. There is no anti-international attitude that I've seen.

Maybe the state schools are better in your part of the country?!

I think my school tended to be a bit jingoistic, at least as much as anywhere was in the noughties.

The absurdity is that a conversation about private schools being LESS jingoistic than state schools is happening at all.

rjsterry

Jezyboy said:

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

So since it's education, I've been looking at local schools/nurseries round here in Cambridge.

Noticed a number of independent schools are actively selling themselves as more liberal and open minded than the state schools. On the phone to one of them this morning "we try to shun the anti-international attitude that you see in the state schools. We embrace second languages, for example."

Was a bit slack jawed when I heard that.

I mean it's nonsense. There is no anti-international attitude that I've seen.

Maybe the state schools are better in your part of the country?!

I think my school tended to be a bit jingoistic, at least as much as anywhere was in the noughties.

Don't remember it being an issue but it is a while ago now. Eldest is being taught German by a multilingual Bulgarian and has a number of other foreign teachers. Her classmates are similarly from a variety of backgrounds. I'd imagine Cambridge is fairly cosmopolitan as well given the research and academic employers.

shirley_basso

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

So since it's education, I've been looking at local schools/nurseries round here in Cambridge.

Noticed a number of independent schools are actively selling themselves as more liberal and open minded than the state schools. On the phone to one of them this morning "we try to shun the anti-international attitude that you see in the state schools. We embrace second languages, for example."

Was a bit slack jawed when I heard that.

My conversation with a local private nursery.

Me: "I was wondering if I could come and look around"
Nursery: "Have you registered and paid the registration fee?"
Me:"Er, what's that?"
Nursery:"It's a £100, non-refundable fee"
Me:"To look around?"
Nursery:"Yes, but actually we only have waiting list places available for the year are in interested in"
Me:"So, if I pay the fee, join the waiting list and you then have no places, do you refund it?"
Nursery:"No".

Marketed at the kind of people to whom £100 is a tip added to the bill of a nice meal.

That was my conclusion. It's a selection process and I'm not cut out for it. He did really sell me on it though by telling me that they had this problem where some parents would view the nursery and then not apply. As a result they had to introduce this fee.

Why would it be unusual to view somewhere and not apply? I viewed 3 nurseries before choosing one. I suppose if they have a long waiting list then they don't need to waste the staff's time.

rick_chasey

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

So since it's education, I've been looking at local schools/nurseries round here in Cambridge.

Noticed a number of independent schools are actively selling themselves as more liberal and open minded than the state schools. On the phone to one of them this morning "we try to shun the anti-international attitude that you see in the state schools. We embrace second languages, for example."

Was a bit slack jawed when I heard that.

Is it actually based on anything though? I mean have you ever spoken to a teacher at an independent school? "Living in a bubble" doesn't quite do the experience justice.

I am friends with a teacher at the rival intendent primary school so yes, I have.

She says the same thing FWIW and is sending her kids to private school to avoid an overly right wing education. (the Indian husband has particular beef with the history curriculum, so go figure).

Thought hadn't even occurred to me till she mentioned it and now this.

We talk about the shift in the political divide - here you pay to have a more left wing education. Can you imagine?

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

So since it's education, I've been looking at local schools/nurseries round here in Cambridge.

Noticed a number of independent schools are actively selling themselves as more liberal and open minded than the state schools. On the phone to one of them this morning "we try to shun the anti-international attitude that you see in the state schools. We embrace second languages, for example."

Was a bit slack jawed when I heard that.

My conversation with a local private nursery.

Me: "I was wondering if I could come and look around"
Nursery: "Have you registered and paid the registration fee?"
Me:"Er, what's that?"
Nursery:"It's a £100, non-refundable fee"
Me:"To look around?"
Nursery:"Yes, but actually we only have waiting list places available for the year are in interested in"
Me:"So, if I pay the fee, join the waiting list and you then have no places, do you refund it?"
Nursery:"No".

Yes stories like this make me glad I left London. I don't earn enough to make it work for me.

Jezyboy

First.Aspect said:

Jezyboy said:

rjsterry said:

rick_chasey said:

So since it's education, I've been looking at local schools/nurseries round here in Cambridge.

Noticed a number of independent schools are actively selling themselves as more liberal and open minded than the state schools. On the phone to one of them this morning "we try to shun the anti-international attitude that you see in the state schools. We embrace second languages, for example."

Was a bit slack jawed when I heard that.

I mean it's nonsense. There is no anti-international attitude that I've seen.

Maybe the state schools are better in your part of the country?!

I think my school tended to be a bit jingoistic, at least as much as anywhere was in the noughties.

The absurdity is that a conversation about private schools being LESS jingoistic than state schools is happening at all.

Meh.

If I were to do some nasty stereotyping, the private school is more likely to have stay at home mothers who had "why I'm no longer talking to white people about race" down in their book club.

TheBigBean

Sending kids home for study leave when there are no exams sounds like a bad idea.

rjsterry

Are you sure they're not still sitting some form of tests set by the school? Daughter has a round of end of year tests and she's in y7.

johngti

TheBigBean said:

Sending kids home for study leave when there are no exams sounds like a bad idea.

Why? We finished the curriculum, we’ve had six weeks of testing, the kids are exhausted as well as the teachers. We’re being asked to set grades for students with all of the checks and balances that come with that so the workload will be stupid over the next couple of weeks. And to top it off, in a normal year they’d have another 7-10 days of intensive exams and would be off school from around the 20th June anyway. They’re gaining very little.

We’ll be running various induction days for sixth form, students will have summer work packs to prepare for sixth form. What more do you think we can do?

First.Aspect

johngti said:

TheBigBean said:

Sending kids home for study leave when there are no exams sounds like a bad idea.

Why? We finished the curriculum, we’ve had six weeks of testing, the kids are exhausted as well as the teachers. We’re being asked to set grades for students with all of the checks and balances that come with that so the workload will be stupid over the next couple of weeks. And to top it off, in a normal year they’d have another 7-10 days of intensive exams and would be off school from around the 20th June anyway. They’re gaining very little.

We’ll be running various induction days for sixth form, students will have summer work packs to prepare for sixth form. What more do you think we can do?

Why is there such a snafu going on about needing the kids to catch up, then?

johngti

First.Aspect said:

johngti said:

TheBigBean said:

Sending kids home for study leave when there are no exams sounds like a bad idea.

Why? We finished the curriculum, we’ve had six weeks of testing, the kids are exhausted as well as the teachers. We’re being asked to set grades for students with all of the checks and balances that come with that so the workload will be stupid over the next couple of weeks. And to top it off, in a normal year they’d have another 7-10 days of intensive exams and would be off school from around the 20th June anyway. They’re gaining very little.

We’ll be running various induction days for sixth form, students will have summer work packs to prepare for sixth form. What more do you think we can do?

Why is there such a snafu going on about needing the kids to catch up, then?

Suits an agenda. Teachers did nothing during lockdown in spite of being paid. Schools close at 2.45 so that can’t be right. Because teachers did nothing, kids have fallen behind. We must catch up. Patently not true.

The reality is that there will be some students in some schools that will have fallen behind because of their circumstances, that’s true. They need to be identified and supported, although for many of those school is the last place they want to be so in those schools where there’s a need for catch up, it’s not going to be easy to motivate them to do more.

But learning is ephemeral at the best of times. For most, there won’t be an issue and teachers, being the professionals in education that they are, will adapt schemes of work to ensure that any academic catching up is done properly and in a timely manner. What kids need is the extra stuff. Spend a ton of money improving local facilities, pay coaches to run sports clubs, invest in things like youth clubs again.

Oh, and I’m sure everyone knows people who have been happy to take their kids out of school for a couple of weeks for family holidays. That’s ok but giving a bunch of exhausted 16 year olds a couple of weeks of relaxation after weeks and weeks of in-school assessments is a bad idea?

kingstongraham

I'll let the teachers I know who were working through lockdown that they weren't doing anything.

rjsterry

First.Aspect said:

johngti said:

TheBigBean said:

Sending kids home for study leave when there are no exams sounds like a bad idea.

Why? We finished the curriculum, we’ve had six weeks of testing, the kids are exhausted as well as the teachers. We’re being asked to set grades for students with all of the checks and balances that come with that so the workload will be stupid over the next couple of weeks. And to top it off, in a normal year they’d have another 7-10 days of intensive exams and would be off school from around the 20th June anyway. They’re gaining very little.

We’ll be running various induction days for sixth form, students will have summer work packs to prepare for sixth form. What more do you think we can do?

Why is there such a snafu going on about needing the kids to catch up, then?

I'd guess that is more relevant to the year that will be taking their GCSEs and A levels next summer. Also some schools have been closed for longer than others and there will be huge variation in how well different pupils coped with home learning. The crude figure of £50 per pupil is a bit meaningless when some will need little extra help and some will need a lot.

elbowloh

kingstongraham said:

I'll let the teachers I know who were working through lockdown that they weren't doing anything.

Johngti is a teacher...

johngti

kingstongraham said:

I'll let the teachers I know who were working through lockdown that they weren't doing anything.

Don’t worry about it. We’re constantly being told that what we do is worthless and makes for an easy life, starting at 9, finishing at 2.45, 13 weeks holiday every year and a gold-plated pension to look forward to...

Trouble is that, because everyone has been to school, everyone has an opinion about teaching. And most of those opinions are wrong. If the job’s that cushy, why don’t more people do it? I’ve lost count of the number of trainees that I’ve mentored who’ve come from other jobs expecting teaching to be a piece of p*ss only to struggle through the training and give up. The retention rate is shocking - huge numbers of teachers give up within 5 years of qualifying

briantrumpet

johngti said:

First.Aspect said:

johngti said:

TheBigBean said:

Sending kids home for study leave when there are no exams sounds like a bad idea.

Why? We finished the curriculum, we’ve had six weeks of testing, the kids are exhausted as well as the teachers. We’re being asked to set grades for students with all of the checks and balances that come with that so the workload will be stupid over the next couple of weeks. And to top it off, in a normal year they’d have another 7-10 days of intensive exams and would be off school from around the 20th June anyway. They’re gaining very little.

We’ll be running various induction days for sixth form, students will have summer work packs to prepare for sixth form. What more do you think we can do?

Why is there such a snafu going on about needing the kids to catch up, then?

Suits an agenda. Teachers did nothing during lockdown in spite of being paid. Schools close at 2.45 so that can’t be right. Because teachers did nothing, kids have fallen behind. We must catch up. Patently not true.

The reality is that there will be some students in some schools that will have fallen behind because of their circumstances, that’s true. They need to be identified and supported, although for many of those school is the last place they want to be so in those schools where there’s a need for catch up, it’s not going to be easy to motivate them to do more.

But learning is ephemeral at the best of times. For most, there won’t be an issue and teachers, being the professionals in education that they are, will adapt schemes of work to ensure that any academic catching up is done properly and in a timely manner. What kids need is the extra stuff. Spend a ton of money improving local facilities, pay coaches to run sports clubs, invest in things like youth clubs again.

Oh, and I’m sure everyone knows people who have been happy to take their kids out of school for a couple of weeks for family holidays. That’s ok but giving a bunch of exhausted 16 year olds a couple of weeks of relaxation after weeks and weeks of in-school assessments is a bad idea?

That's exactly my experience at my school. It's a fee-paying school, so parents will be very vocal if they don't feel value is being provided, and yet a lot of Y11 & Y13 will be taking post-assessments study leave - they are shattered after so many in-school assessments, which this year will have to be rigorously marked by the teachers, not the exam boards who will still be taking the full exam fees. The school is still actually putting on lots of activities for both years, if they want to do stuff, but I've no idea what the uptake will be.