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Wout van Aert appreciation thread

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  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 8,122
    ddraver said:

    I like WvA, I think Rick's tongue may be some way in his cheek when he described him as the greatest of the 21st century but he's still got time to join the great 1 day riders.

    Who do you put higher?
    Lots. I mean what's he won to put him in the conversation ?
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 24,775
    seanoconn said:

    ddraver said:

    When I got up close and personal with him at Hoogerheide


    Do you have any more FF style appreciation pics? Maybe with some oiled leg muscle glistening in the sun.
    Not from cross races, no.

    Lots more of him covered in cowshit...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 63,317 Lives Here
    I feel Frenchie would respect WvA but not love him.

    I suspect Frenchie would be all-in on Alaphilippe tbh, the ultimate sh!t or bust rider.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 26,375
    ddraver said:

    I like WvA, I think Rick's tongue may be some way in his cheek when he described him as the greatest of the 21st century but he's still got time to join the great 1 day riders.

    Who do you put higher?

    Cancellara, Boonen, Gilbert, Museeuw, Valverde, Bettini, Sagan....
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • yorkshirerawyorkshireraw Posts: 1,609
    I agree that WVA is the best all round rider in the current pro peloton.

    I prefer MVDP, purely for his at times recklessness or disregard for how you 'should' race.

    Interesting though that in pure range of ability there is an active rider who has won a cobbled classic , finished top 10 in Flanders and Roubaix, led out a World Champs winning sprint, taken WT level stage race GCs, won Tour mountain stages and a Tour TT. And won the actual Tour. Having started as a World and Olympic track champion.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 26,375
    edited April 2021

    I agree that WVA is the best all round rider in the current pro peloton.

    There's a guy who has won a Grand Tour, including TT and MTF stages, a Cobbled Classic (top ten in all of them) and won two Olympic Golds on the Track. He also provided lead out to a World Champion and was a key domestique on several TdF wins. And he's released three books and two podcasts.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 63,317 Lives Here
    edited April 2021
    RichN95. said:

    I agree that WVA is the best all round rider in the current pro peloton.

    There's a guy who has won a Grand Tour, including TT and MTF stages, a Cobbled Classic (top ten in all of them) and won two Olympic Golds on the Track. He also provided lead out to a World Champion and was a key domestique on several TdF wins
    Aye but Roglic is only really good at the same type of effort, and for Thomas, he couldn't do them all with the same form. Not saying he's not versatile, but not all at the same time.
  • ProssPross Posts: 33,451

    I agree that WVA is the best all round rider in the current pro peloton.

    I prefer MVDP, purely for his at times recklessness or disregard for how you 'should' race.

    Interesting though that in pure range of ability there is an active rider who has won a cobbled classic , finished top 10 in Flanders and Roubaix, led out a World Champs winning sprint, taken WT level stage race GCs, won Tour mountain stages and a Tour TT. And won the actual Tour. Having started as a World and Olympic track champion.

    And who is continually under-rated (only won the Tour because others were injured / didn't take part etc.).
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 63,317 Lives Here
    Look, Wiggins could be a 4k pursuiter and a GT winner, but he couldn't do them on the same legs.
  • No_Ta_DoctorNo_Ta_Doctor Posts: 11,917
    Look, he's a serious rider, but he's got fewer monuments than Fuglsang, has never worn the rainbow and the biggest stage race he's won is what? The Tour of Denmark?

    I don't think you can enter the "greatest this century" without 2 out of monuments, GTs and rainbows on you're palmares..
    “Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”

    @DrHeadgear

    The Vikings are coming!
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 17,760
    He's the new Kwiatkowski.


    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • singletonsingleton Posts: 2,269

    singleton said:

    Look at who makes up the rest of the top 3 when WvA makes the podium. It's anyone from Demare, Sam Bennett, Cees Bol, Boassen Hagen, Gaviria, Matthews, through Alaphillippe, van der Poel, Hirschi, Kwiatkowski to Formolo, Pogacar, Carapaz. And Ganna.

    For a "GOAT" or "GO This Century", we also need to include the races where he did not make the podium.
    This year so far that's only 5 out of 15 races.
    It feels like there has been more than 15 cycling races this year.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 26,375



    I don't think you can enter the "greatest this century" without 2 out of monuments, GTs and rainbows on you're palmares..

    Rainbows is basically another monument though.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 21,410
    singleton said:

    singleton said:

    Look at who makes up the rest of the top 3 when WvA makes the podium. It's anyone from Demare, Sam Bennett, Cees Bol, Boassen Hagen, Gaviria, Matthews, through Alaphillippe, van der Poel, Hirschi, Kwiatkowski to Formolo, Pogacar, Carapaz. And Ganna.

    For a "GOAT" or "GO This Century", we also need to include the races where he did not make the podium.
    This year so far that's only 5 out of 15 races.
    It feels like there has been more than 15 cycling races this year.
    You think to be an all time great he should be able to podium in races that he hasn't started? That's a pretty high bar.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 63,317 Lives Here

    He's the new Kwiatkowski.


    Kwiat wishes.
  • singletonsingleton Posts: 2,269
    edited April 2021

    singleton said:

    singleton said:

    Look at who makes up the rest of the top 3 when WvA makes the podium. It's anyone from Demare, Sam Bennett, Cees Bol, Boassen Hagen, Gaviria, Matthews, through Alaphillippe, van der Poel, Hirschi, Kwiatkowski to Formolo, Pogacar, Carapaz. And Ganna.

    For a "GOAT" or "GO This Century", we also need to include the races where he did not make the podium.
    This year so far that's only 5 out of 15 races.
    It feels like there has been more than 15 cycling races this year.
    You think to be an all time great he should be able to podium in races that he hasn't started? That's a pretty high bar.
    :) Just pointing out that his performance would have been more impressive if he had started 20 and got a podium in 15, rather than starting 15 and got podium in 10.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 63,317 Lives Here

    Look, he's a serious rider, but he's got fewer monuments than Fuglsang, has never worn the rainbow and the biggest stage race he's won is what? The Tour of Denmark?

    I don't think you can enter the "greatest this century" without 2 out of monuments, GTs and rainbows on you're palmares..

    He's only into his second full year on the road at a WT team.
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 21,410
    Is Roglic riding the Dauphine? If not, who's the JV leader there?
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 63,317 Lives Here

    Is Roglic riding the Dauphine? If not, who's the JV leader there?

    Kuss, presumably.
  • gsk82gsk82 Posts: 3,211
    He can win all the races he likes. But he'll still be a whinger and not as good as Van Der Poel.
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 63,317 Lives Here
    edited April 2021
    gsk82 said:

    He can win all the races he likes. But he'll still be a whinger and not as good as Van Der Poel.

    Shots fired.

    I'd suggest WvA is mildly more tactically astute than MvdP.

    Seeing them in person, WvA doesn't look that remarkable, that is true. MvdP *looks* incredibly fast.
  • No_Ta_DoctorNo_Ta_Doctor Posts: 11,917

    Look, he's a serious rider, but he's got fewer monuments than Fuglsang, has never worn the rainbow and the biggest stage race he's won is what? The Tour of Denmark?

    I don't think you can enter the "greatest this century" without 2 out of monuments, GTs and rainbows on you're palmares..

    He's only into his second full year on the road at a WT team.
    So too early to put him in the discussion except in terms of potential.

    RichN95: "Rainbows is basically another monument though."

    No, because you only get one shot per year, and the parcours varies, so there will be at least a few editions during your career that don't suit you at all. If you haven't got a GT win then you need a fair few monuments to qualify if you've never won the World's.
    “Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”

    @DrHeadgear

    The Vikings are coming!
  • blazing_saddlesblazing_saddles Posts: 20,290

    gsk82 said:

    He can win all the races he likes. But he'll still be a whinger and not as good as Van Der Poel.

    Shots fired.

    I'd suggest WvA is mildly more tactically astute than MvdP.

    Seeing them in person, WvA doesn't look that remarkable, that is true. MvdP *looks* incredibly fast.
    That's like saying that Dylan Groenewegen is a slightly better climber than Andrea Guardini.
    Not furthering your outlandish claim, damning your man with such faint praise.

    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 63,317 Lives Here

    gsk82 said:

    He can win all the races he likes. But he'll still be a whinger and not as good as Van Der Poel.

    Shots fired.

    I'd suggest WvA is mildly more tactically astute than MvdP.

    Seeing them in person, WvA doesn't look that remarkable, that is true. MvdP *looks* incredibly fast.
    That's like saying that Dylan Groenewegen is a slightly better climber than Andrea Guardini.
    Not furthering your outlandish claim, damning your man with such faint praise.

    Ha.

    Look, if you're as prodigiously talented as WvA is, and you've spent the formative years in your adult career riding in muddy funny circles, I can forgive him some headroom for tactical nous.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 63,317 Lives Here
    edited April 2021

    Look, he's a serious rider, but he's got fewer monuments than Fuglsang, has never worn the rainbow and the biggest stage race he's won is what? The Tour of Denmark?

    I don't think you can enter the "greatest this century" without 2 out of monuments, GTs and rainbows on you're palmares..

    He's only into his second full year on the road at a WT team.
    So too early to put him in the discussion except in terms of potential.

    RichN95: "Rainbows is basically another monument though."

    No, because you only get one shot per year, and the parcours varies, so there will be at least a few editions during your career that don't suit you at all. If you haven't got a GT win then you need a fair few monuments to qualify if you've never won the World's.
    Sure but in terms of genuine all round talent, rather than the fake GT 'all round' talent, for the past year there has not been a better rider.

    There isn't a day where WvA looks at the profile and thinks "I can't be of value here"
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 10,546
    edited April 2021

    gsk82 said:

    He can win all the races he likes. But he'll still be a whinger and not as good as Van Der Poel.

    Shots fired.

    I'd suggest WvA is mildly more tactically astute than MvdP.

    Seeing them in person, WvA doesn't look that remarkable, that is true. MvdP *looks* incredibly fast.
    MvdP on the bike is basically the cycling version of the T-1000 - he's just so big and always looks inscrutable.

    WvA often has a bit of a guppy face going on:


  • phreakphreak Posts: 2,676

    He's the new Kwiatkowski.


    Kwiat wishes.
    Kwiato has the same number of Monuments, more podiums in Monuments (3 v 2), a WC title, more Classic victories (5 v 3), and a better performance at the Tour (11th vs 20th). Granted, WvA is almost certain to have a better palmares at the end of their respective careers, but right now Kwiato has the better one.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 26,375
    edited April 2021



    RichN95: "Rainbows is basically another monument though."

    No, because you only get one shot per year, and the parcours varies, so there will be at least a few editions during your career that don't suit you at all. If you haven't got a GT win then you need a fair few monuments to qualify if you've never won the World's.

    But those who win the World's generally also win a monument. It's not like it's different discipline. I'd say that if you've not won the Tour or the Worlds you're out of contention.

    Besides, greatness doesn't require versatility. This doesn't happen in other sports. No-one cares about Tom Brady's defence, Viv Richards's bowling, Lionel Messi's defensive work or Rafa Nadal's doubles record.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • phreakphreak Posts: 2,676
    It's also worth remembering that Sagan has 12 stages of the Tour and 7 green jerseys, 3 WC wins, 2 monuments, 6 classics and more podiums than you can shake a stick at. Again, it's quite possible that WvA will have a better record at the end of their respective careers, but if we're talking the best of the 21st century, he's not even the best of the current riders. The same largely applies to MvdP.

    Both are freakishly good, but to gain legend status they'll need to win 5+ monuments like Gilbert, Boonen, and Cancellara did.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 26,375
    I would say that the palmares that WVA hasn't yet won pales into insignificance to the palmares MVDP hasn't yet won and is a long way behind what Evenepoel and Pogacar haven't yet won.

    But none are as impressive as the palmares the 1997 Ullrich hadn't yet won and those that the 2008 EBH hadn't yet won.
    Twitter: @RichN95
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