Wout van Aert appreciation thread
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Lots. I mean what's he won to put him in the conversation ?ddraver said:
Who do you put higher?DeVlaeminck said:I like WvA, I think Rick's tongue may be some way in his cheek when he described him as the greatest of the 21st century but he's still got time to join the great 1 day riders.
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Not from cross races, no.seanoconn said:
Do you have any more FF style appreciation pics? Maybe with some oiled leg muscle glistening in the sun.ddraver said:When I got up close and personal with him at Hoogerheide
Lots more of him covered in cowshit...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
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I feel Frenchie would respect WvA but not love him.
I suspect Frenchie would be all-in on Alaphilippe tbh, the ultimate sh!t or bust rider.1 -
ddraver said:
Who do you put higher?DeVlaeminck said:I like WvA, I think Rick's tongue may be some way in his cheek when he described him as the greatest of the 21st century but he's still got time to join the great 1 day riders.
Cancellara, Boonen, Gilbert, Museeuw, Valverde, Bettini, Sagan....Twitter: @RichN950 -
I agree that WVA is the best all round rider in the current pro peloton.
I prefer MVDP, purely for his at times recklessness or disregard for how you 'should' race.
Interesting though that in pure range of ability there is an active rider who has won a cobbled classic , finished top 10 in Flanders and Roubaix, led out a World Champs winning sprint, taken WT level stage race GCs, won Tour mountain stages and a Tour TT. And won the actual Tour. Having started as a World and Olympic track champion.0 -
There's a guy who has won a Grand Tour, including TT and MTF stages, a Cobbled Classic (top ten in all of them) and won two Olympic Golds on the Track. He also provided lead out to a World Champion and was a key domestique on several TdF wins. And he's released three books and two podcasts.yorkshireraw said:I agree that WVA is the best all round rider in the current pro peloton.
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Aye but Roglic is only really good at the same type of effort, and for Thomas, he couldn't do them all with the same form. Not saying he's not versatile, but not all at the same time.RichN95. said:
There's a guy who has won a Grand Tour, including TT and MTF stages, a Cobbled Classic (top ten in all of them) and won two Olympic Golds on the Track. He also provided lead out to a World Champion and was a key domestique on several TdF winsyorkshireraw said:I agree that WVA is the best all round rider in the current pro peloton.
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And who is continually under-rated (only won the Tour because others were injured / didn't take part etc.).yorkshireraw said:I agree that WVA is the best all round rider in the current pro peloton.
I prefer MVDP, purely for his at times recklessness or disregard for how you 'should' race.
Interesting though that in pure range of ability there is an active rider who has won a cobbled classic , finished top 10 in Flanders and Roubaix, led out a World Champs winning sprint, taken WT level stage race GCs, won Tour mountain stages and a Tour TT. And won the actual Tour. Having started as a World and Olympic track champion.2 -
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Look, he's a serious rider, but he's got fewer monuments than Fuglsang, has never worn the rainbow and the biggest stage race he's won is what? The Tour of Denmark?
I don't think you can enter the "greatest this century" without 2 out of monuments, GTs and rainbows on you're palmares..Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
He's the new Kwiatkowski.
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!2 -
It feels like there has been more than 15 cycling races this year.kingstongraham said:
This year so far that's only 5 out of 15 races.singleton said:
For a "GOAT" or "GO This Century", we also need to include the races where he did not make the podium.kingstongraham said:Look at who makes up the rest of the top 3 when WvA makes the podium. It's anyone from Demare, Sam Bennett, Cees Bol, Boassen Hagen, Gaviria, Matthews, through Alaphillippe, van der Poel, Hirschi, Kwiatkowski to Formolo, Pogacar, Carapaz. And Ganna.
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Rainbows is basically another monument though.No_Ta_Doctor said:
I don't think you can enter the "greatest this century" without 2 out of monuments, GTs and rainbows on you're palmares..
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You think to be an all time great he should be able to podium in races that he hasn't started? That's a pretty high bar.singleton said:
It feels like there has been more than 15 cycling races this year.kingstongraham said:
This year so far that's only 5 out of 15 races.singleton said:
For a "GOAT" or "GO This Century", we also need to include the races where he did not make the podium.kingstongraham said:Look at who makes up the rest of the top 3 when WvA makes the podium. It's anyone from Demare, Sam Bennett, Cees Bol, Boassen Hagen, Gaviria, Matthews, through Alaphillippe, van der Poel, Hirschi, Kwiatkowski to Formolo, Pogacar, Carapaz. And Ganna.
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kingstongraham said:
You think to be an all time great he should be able to podium in races that he hasn't started? That's a pretty high bar.singleton said:
It feels like there has been more than 15 cycling races this year.kingstongraham said:
This year so far that's only 5 out of 15 races.singleton said:
For a "GOAT" or "GO This Century", we also need to include the races where he did not make the podium.kingstongraham said:Look at who makes up the rest of the top 3 when WvA makes the podium. It's anyone from Demare, Sam Bennett, Cees Bol, Boassen Hagen, Gaviria, Matthews, through Alaphillippe, van der Poel, Hirschi, Kwiatkowski to Formolo, Pogacar, Carapaz. And Ganna.
Just pointing out that his performance would have been more impressive if he had started 20 and got a podium in 15, rather than starting 15 and got podium in 10.
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He's only into his second full year on the road at a WT team.No_Ta_Doctor said:Look, he's a serious rider, but he's got fewer monuments than Fuglsang, has never worn the rainbow and the biggest stage race he's won is what? The Tour of Denmark?
I don't think you can enter the "greatest this century" without 2 out of monuments, GTs and rainbows on you're palmares..0 -
Is Roglic riding the Dauphine? If not, who's the JV leader there?0
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Kuss, presumably.kingstongraham said:Is Roglic riding the Dauphine? If not, who's the JV leader there?
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He can win all the races he likes. But he'll still be a whinger and not as good as Van Der Poel."Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago0
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So too early to put him in the discussion except in terms of potential.rick_chasey said:
He's only into his second full year on the road at a WT team.No_Ta_Doctor said:Look, he's a serious rider, but he's got fewer monuments than Fuglsang, has never worn the rainbow and the biggest stage race he's won is what? The Tour of Denmark?
I don't think you can enter the "greatest this century" without 2 out of monuments, GTs and rainbows on you're palmares..
RichN95: "Rainbows is basically another monument though."
No, because you only get one shot per year, and the parcours varies, so there will be at least a few editions during your career that don't suit you at all. If you haven't got a GT win then you need a fair few monuments to qualify if you've never won the World's.
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That's like saying that Dylan Groenewegen is a slightly better climber than Andrea Guardini.rick_chasey said:
Shots fired.gsk82 said:He can win all the races he likes. But he'll still be a whinger and not as good as Van Der Poel.
I'd suggest WvA is mildly more tactically astute than MvdP.
Seeing them in person, WvA doesn't look that remarkable, that is true. MvdP *looks* incredibly fast.
Not furthering your outlandish claim, damning your man with such faint praise.
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Ha.blazing_saddles said:
That's like saying that Dylan Groenewegen is a slightly better climber than Andrea Guardini.rick_chasey said:
Shots fired.gsk82 said:He can win all the races he likes. But he'll still be a whinger and not as good as Van Der Poel.
I'd suggest WvA is mildly more tactically astute than MvdP.
Seeing them in person, WvA doesn't look that remarkable, that is true. MvdP *looks* incredibly fast.
Not furthering your outlandish claim, damning your man with such faint praise.
Look, if you're as prodigiously talented as WvA is, and you've spent the formative years in your adult career riding in muddy funny circles, I can forgive him some headroom for tactical nous.0 -
Sure but in terms of genuine all round talent, rather than the fake GT 'all round' talent, for the past year there has not been a better rider.No_Ta_Doctor said:
So too early to put him in the discussion except in terms of potential.rick_chasey said:
He's only into his second full year on the road at a WT team.No_Ta_Doctor said:Look, he's a serious rider, but he's got fewer monuments than Fuglsang, has never worn the rainbow and the biggest stage race he's won is what? The Tour of Denmark?
I don't think you can enter the "greatest this century" without 2 out of monuments, GTs and rainbows on you're palmares..
RichN95: "Rainbows is basically another monument though."
No, because you only get one shot per year, and the parcours varies, so there will be at least a few editions during your career that don't suit you at all. If you haven't got a GT win then you need a fair few monuments to qualify if you've never won the World's.
There isn't a day where WvA looks at the profile and thinks "I can't be of value here"0 -
MvdP on the bike is basically the cycling version of the T-1000 - he's just so big and always looks inscrutable.rick_chasey said:
Shots fired.gsk82 said:He can win all the races he likes. But he'll still be a whinger and not as good as Van Der Poel.
I'd suggest WvA is mildly more tactically astute than MvdP.
Seeing them in person, WvA doesn't look that remarkable, that is true. MvdP *looks* incredibly fast.
WvA often has a bit of a guppy face going on:
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Kwiato has the same number of Monuments, more podiums in Monuments (3 v 2), a WC title, more Classic victories (5 v 3), and a better performance at the Tour (11th vs 20th). Granted, WvA is almost certain to have a better palmares at the end of their respective careers, but right now Kwiato has the better one.rick_chasey said:
Kwiat wishes.tailwindhome said:He's the new Kwiatkowski.
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But those who win the World's generally also win a monument. It's not like it's different discipline. I'd say that if you've not won the Tour or the Worlds you're out of contention.No_Ta_Doctor said:
RichN95: "Rainbows is basically another monument though."
No, because you only get one shot per year, and the parcours varies, so there will be at least a few editions during your career that don't suit you at all. If you haven't got a GT win then you need a fair few monuments to qualify if you've never won the World's.
Besides, greatness doesn't require versatility. This doesn't happen in other sports. No-one cares about Tom Brady's defence, Viv Richards's bowling, Lionel Messi's defensive work or Rafa Nadal's doubles record.Twitter: @RichN950 -
It's also worth remembering that Sagan has 12 stages of the Tour and 7 green jerseys, 3 WC wins, 2 monuments, 6 classics and more podiums than you can shake a stick at. Again, it's quite possible that WvA will have a better record at the end of their respective careers, but if we're talking the best of the 21st century, he's not even the best of the current riders. The same largely applies to MvdP.
Both are freakishly good, but to gain legend status they'll need to win 5+ monuments like Gilbert, Boonen, and Cancellara did.1 -
I would say that the palmares that WVA hasn't yet won pales into insignificance to the palmares MVDP hasn't yet won and is a long way behind what Evenepoel and Pogacar haven't yet won.
But none are as impressive as the palmares the 1997 Ullrich hadn't yet won and those that the 2008 EBH hadn't yet won.Twitter: @RichN951
