The Royals
Comments
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ddraver said:
How many individual instances do you need before you start wondering if there might be a bigger problem?DeVlaeminck said:
You have to take each instance individually - look at things on their merits. There are times you clearly don't do that.rick_chasey said:
If you honestly think white people suffer more from accusations of racism that victims of racism I don't think you understand the problem, genuinely.DeVlaeminck said:
Like Danny Baker? Obviously don't be racist but for me he wasn't racist and he lost his job/career over accusations of racism and has to live with the stigma of that. I use that example as it relates to Meghan and Harry.ddraver said:
don't be racist?Jezyboy said:The current culture of Internet shaming means that in many cases, individuals can suffer greatly from being racist or (if I'm being contentious) being seen to be racist.
Being racist on twitter can see you getting sacked which is disastrous on an individual level. Whereas having one racist joke made about you probably doesn't do extreme harm.
Of course, over time lots of racist abuse is going to be awful for anyone's mental state.
So what's the answer? I don't have a clue.
Individual cases have to be taken as such.
What point are you making here? Assuming it is addressed at me I haven't denied the existence of a problem - it was Rick who implied I had because I disagreed with his universal law.
I'll give you a couple of examples of posts I've made on these forums.
1 - I agreed that Quinn Simmonds should be punished for posting a black hand emoji because that act has taken on a racist meaning.
2 - I agreed that statues of slavers (specifically in Bristol) should be removed if they caused offence to black Bristolians.
But I don't agree that every accusation of racism or every thing which is attributed to race is necessarily so just because someone says so. I take each case on its merits - look at the evidence.
As far as Meghan Markle goes I've not commented because I simply don't know - I'm not privy to Harry's private conversations and I've no idea if the tabloid stories about her were of a racist nature - I didn't read them.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
You are either stupid or being disingenuous here - I'm going to assume the former.secretsam said:
"Merits" of racism? There are scales, perhaps? From really racist to just a bit?DeVlaeminck said:
You have to take each instance individually - look at things on their merits. There are times you clearly don't do that.rick_chasey said:
If you honestly think white people suffer more from accusations of racism that victims of racism I don't think you understand the problem, genuinely.DeVlaeminck said:
Like Danny Baker? Obviously don't be racist but for me he wasn't racist and he lost his job/career over accusations of racism and has to live with the stigma of that. I use that example as it relates to Meghan and Harry.ddraver said:
don't be racist?Jezyboy said:The current culture of Internet shaming means that in many cases, individuals can suffer greatly from being racist or (if I'm being contentious) being seen to be racist.
Being racist on twitter can see you getting sacked which is disastrous on an individual level. Whereas having one racist joke made about you probably doesn't do extreme harm.
Of course, over time lots of racist abuse is going to be awful for anyone's mental state.
So what's the answer? I don't have a clue.
Individual cases have to be taken as such.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]1 -
It's a non-statement, isn't it?blazing_saddles said:Maybe it's because I am a lot older than most on here, or maybe I am not very bright, but have to admit to being a bit lost with the direction the debate seems to have taken.
Prince William has countered Megan's accusation this morning by saying and I quote: "We're very much not a racist family."
Is this an example of what Rick calls a white man playing the victim, or can his response be given equal consideration?0 -
Nope, really quite smart, actually. Possibly disingenuous, but at least I'm not racist.DeVlaeminck said:
You are either stupid or being disingenuous here - I'm going to assume the former.secretsam said:
"Merits" of racism? There are scales, perhaps? From really racist to just a bit?DeVlaeminck said:
You have to take each instance individually - look at things on their merits. There are times you clearly don't do that.rick_chasey said:
If you honestly think white people suffer more from accusations of racism that victims of racism I don't think you understand the problem, genuinely.DeVlaeminck said:
Like Danny Baker? Obviously don't be racist but for me he wasn't racist and he lost his job/career over accusations of racism and has to live with the stigma of that. I use that example as it relates to Meghan and Harry.ddraver said:
don't be racist?Jezyboy said:The current culture of Internet shaming means that in many cases, individuals can suffer greatly from being racist or (if I'm being contentious) being seen to be racist.
Being racist on twitter can see you getting sacked which is disastrous on an individual level. Whereas having one racist joke made about you probably doesn't do extreme harm.
Of course, over time lots of racist abuse is going to be awful for anyone's mental state.
So what's the answer? I don't have a clue.
Individual cases have to be taken as such.
Have a report.
It's just a hill. Get over it.0 -
No I think you must just be a bit thick and a racist.secretsam said:
Nope, really quite smart, actually. Possibly disingenuous, but at least I'm not racist.DeVlaeminck said:
You are either stupid or being disingenuous here - I'm going to assume the former.secretsam said:
"Merits" of racism? There are scales, perhaps? From really racist to just a bit?DeVlaeminck said:
You have to take each instance individually - look at things on their merits. There are times you clearly don't do that.rick_chasey said:
If you honestly think white people suffer more from accusations of racism that victims of racism I don't think you understand the problem, genuinely.DeVlaeminck said:
Like Danny Baker? Obviously don't be racist but for me he wasn't racist and he lost his job/career over accusations of racism and has to live with the stigma of that. I use that example as it relates to Meghan and Harry.ddraver said:
don't be racist?Jezyboy said:The current culture of Internet shaming means that in many cases, individuals can suffer greatly from being racist or (if I'm being contentious) being seen to be racist.
Being racist on twitter can see you getting sacked which is disastrous on an individual level. Whereas having one racist joke made about you probably doesn't do extreme harm.
Of course, over time lots of racist abuse is going to be awful for anyone's mental state.
So what's the answer? I don't have a clue.
Individual cases have to be taken as such.
Have a report.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Aaaarghrick_chasey said:
It's a non-statement, isn't it?blazing_saddles said:Maybe it's because I am a lot older than most on here, or maybe I am not very bright, but have to admit to being a bit lost with the direction the debate seems to have taken.
Prince William has countered Megan's accusation this morning by saying and I quote: "We're very much not a racist family."
Is this an example of what Rick calls a white man playing the victim, or can his response be given equal consideration?"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Apart from all the racist stuff that Prince Phillip has said over the years, for example. The 'Royal' family once again scores a direct hit in their own foot...blazing_saddles said:
Prince William has countered Megan's accusation this morning by saying and I quote: "We're very much not a racist family."
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William didn't deny that the conversation took place0
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But by this logic Harry is a racist.imposter2.0 said:
Apart from all the racist stuff that Prince Phillip has said over the years, for example. The 'Royal' family once again scores a direct hit in their own foot...blazing_saddles said:
Prince William has countered Megan's accusation this morning by saying and I quote: "We're very much not a racist family."
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Are H&M's PR advisors working for H to rekindle family relations or M to build profile?
Feels M at this point and Harry is a pawn but surely he's not that thick after all the stuff about his mother.0 -
Just wow. This post really got flagged?DeVlaeminck said:
You are either stupid or being disingenuous here - I'm going to assume the former.secretsam said:
"Merits" of racism? There are scales, perhaps? From really racist to just a bit?DeVlaeminck said:
You have to take each instance individually - look at things on their merits. There are times you clearly don't do that.rick_chasey said:
If you honestly think white people suffer more from accusations of racism that victims of racism I don't think you understand the problem, genuinely.DeVlaeminck said:
Like Danny Baker? Obviously don't be racist but for me he wasn't racist and he lost his job/career over accusations of racism and has to live with the stigma of that. I use that example as it relates to Meghan and Harry.ddraver said:
don't be racist?Jezyboy said:The current culture of Internet shaming means that in many cases, individuals can suffer greatly from being racist or (if I'm being contentious) being seen to be racist.
Being racist on twitter can see you getting sacked which is disastrous on an individual level. Whereas having one racist joke made about you probably doesn't do extreme harm.
Of course, over time lots of racist abuse is going to be awful for anyone's mental state.
So what's the answer? I don't have a clue.
Individual cases have to be taken as such.0 -
I'm like you. I sometimes think I I live in a parallel universe when I visit cakestop. I mean if a poster as moderate and measured as DeVlaminck starts getting their posts flagged then I wonder if I even want to bother with it anymore.blazing_saddles said:Maybe it's because I am a lot older than most on here, or maybe I am not very bright, but have to admit to being a bit lost with the direction the debate seems to have taken.
Prince William has countered Megan's accusation this morning by saying and I quote: "We're very much not a racist family."
Is this an example of what Rick calls a white man playing the victim, or can his response be given equal consideration?0 -
Well, if he's calling people "stupid" and "Thick", then yesshortfall said:
I'm like you. I sometimes think I I live in a parallel universe when I visit cakestop. I mean if a poster as moderate and measured as DeVlaminck starts getting their posts flagged then I wonder if I even want to bother with it anymore.blazing_saddles said:Maybe it's because I am a lot older than most on here, or maybe I am not very bright, but have to admit to being a bit lost with the direction the debate seems to have taken.
Prince William has countered Megan's accusation this morning by saying and I quote: "We're very much not a racist family."
Is this an example of what Rick calls a white man playing the victim, or can his response be given equal consideration?
It's just a hill. Get over it.0 -
I called you racist as well.secretsam said:
Well, if he's calling people "stupid" and "Thick", then yesshortfall said:
I'm like you. I sometimes think I I live in a parallel universe when I visit cakestop. I mean if a poster as moderate and measured as DeVlaminck starts getting their posts flagged then I wonder if I even want to bother with it anymore.blazing_saddles said:Maybe it's because I am a lot older than most on here, or maybe I am not very bright, but have to admit to being a bit lost with the direction the debate seems to have taken.
Prince William has countered Megan's accusation this morning by saying and I quote: "We're very much not a racist family."
Is this an example of what Rick calls a white man playing the victim, or can his response be given equal consideration?[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]2 -
He's certainly might qualify in some respects. The 'dressing up as Hitler' thing could potentially be deemed as such. And he also once referred to one of the other overseas cadets at Sandhurst as his 'paki' friend.blazing_saddles said:
But by this logic Harry is a racist.imposter2.0 said:
Apart from all the racist stuff that Prince Phillip has said over the years, for example. The 'Royal' family once again scores a direct hit in their own foot...blazing_saddles said:
Prince William has countered Megan's accusation this morning by saying and I quote: "We're very much not a racist family."
However, none of that excuses or justifies the racist abuse the couple seem to be getting now though...
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See this is where I get confused by the logic used when folks start out with preconceptions.imposter2.0 said:
He's certainly might qualify in some respects. The 'dressing up as Hitler' thing could potentially be deemed as such. And he also once referred to one of the other overseas cadets at Sandhurst as his 'paki' friend.blazing_saddles said:
But by this logic Harry is a racist.imposter2.0 said:
Apart from all the racist stuff that Prince Phillip has said over the years, for example. The 'Royal' family once again scores a direct hit in their own foot...blazing_saddles said:
Prince William has countered Megan's accusation this morning by saying and I quote: "We're very much not a racist family."
However, none of that excuses or justifies the racist abuse the couple seem to be getting now though...
If you choose to characterise an entire family in 2021 based upon the historical remarks of a bloke born in 1921, then Harry’s more recent racist misdemeanours would have to characterise his new family.
Nobody would draw this latter conclusion so you can’t just adopt the former because it supports your POV.
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.1 -
Constant and incessant racism across the board?????? no constant whiningrick_chasey said:
Explain to me how you call it out then?bompington said:
You're not wrong, but isn't this actually just a type of whataboutery?rick_chasey said:
If you honestly think white people suffer more from accusations of racism that victims of racism I don't think you understand the problem, genuinely.DeVlaeminck said:
Like Danny Baker? Obviously don't be racist but for me he wasn't racist and he lost his job/career over accusations of racism and has to live with the stigma of that. I use that example as it relates to Meghan and Harry.ddraver said:
don't be racist?Jezyboy said:The current culture of Internet shaming means that in many cases, individuals can suffer greatly from being racist or (if I'm being contentious) being seen to be racist.
Being racist on twitter can see you getting sacked which is disastrous on an individual level. Whereas having one racist joke made about you probably doesn't do extreme harm.
Of course, over time lots of racist abuse is going to be awful for anyone's mental state.
So what's the answer? I don't have a clue.
Individual cases have to be taken as such.
What is it about racism that makes it OK for someone to have their life ruined by false accusations of it?
What's your solution? You have evidence across the board of constant and relentless racism and you're worried about a radio presenter gobshite on a radio station with a small audience?
There is absolutely a problem that when you discuss the issue of racism or diversity, white men, especially older men, feel threatened by the discussion, and often feel accused.
In the real world one needs to be sensitive to that as they are usually (or in my experience always) the people with the power to change it. If you want to make progress, you need to approach it in a different way (which, FWIW, I do and have, with success).
The reaction to "but what about false accusations" is really a question of feeling threatened by something - you're worried you or someone you know and like might be falsely accused.
But because you likely don't know many young black men, you're quite relaxed about the *police* falsely accusing them of a crime, for example.
So there is a disconnect. I get it, it threatens white men and they're not used to that - and i'll include myself in that.
But the solution to the racism problem isn't to say "let's not talk about it" or "keep it to yourself" or "only bring it when someone says something explicit" because that doesn't move the dial on the actual problem.
White men feel accused??? they are. Directly and regularly.
Personally unlike most on here im not racist. I treat people as people, I think of people as people and if they're black or white straight or gay or bi or young or old they're people.
Perhaps if some victim groups stopped identifying themselves by their characteristics they could get on and achieve something.
they perpetuate the problem. no one owes anyone a living, sooner they get that through whatever status related shoulder chips they're carrying the sooner we can all get on.
and this constant snowflake rushing from one panic to another like a flock of chicken lickins exacerbates the problem. there needs to be balance for progress.
eg person drives round London on the wrong side of the road, refuses to identify themselves then kicks off is not racism. and being an MP or athlete doesn't make acting like a drug dealer any less likely to get you pulled over.
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A better question from the journo might have been "is anyone in your family racist?"blazing_saddles said:
If you choose to characterise an entire family in 2021 based upon the historical remarks of a bloke born in 1921, then Harry’s more recent racist misdemeanours would have to characterise his new family.
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secretsam said:
So, I have to show you referral letters for MH counselling in order for you to believe that I have depression? Is that how it works? Someone has to prove that they are ill, just to satisfy you?david37 said:Why? did she provide any credible evidence? and who are you to announce how people should react or behave or how they should think?
if you want me to treat you as a special case yes. You have depression, its your problem don't expect me to take it on board too. What a totally self centred attitude you have. No one is special because they have depression loads of people have it and you don't know wether the person you're burdening with your outpourings has issues of their own to deal with.
Personally I don't think its wrong to expect to be treated with dignity whatever your personal circumstances. I do think its a lack of courtesy to burden strangers with your problems and frankly its boring. there are loads of people who need to help others and embrace others problems go and be tedious with them. Or health professionals who are equipped to actually help. or the samaritans.0 -
I have a next door neighbour that pulls the mental health card. You could listen to her tales of woe and think that all her problems are caused by others. However if you speak to the other side then you start to realise the frosty attitude is a result of her actions. As always if you have a racist family member it is probably best to deal with it to their face than bring it onto the front pages. Makes me wonder how Harry got through military training if I am being honest.
As to the William conversation do I really believe that it was him standing their giving his brother craic about the colour of his kid. I doubt it very much. He should not be in the position to have to deny the allegation in the first place. If you have not got the balls to name names then you probably should keep the issue inside your head. If I was William and I had been smeared this way which should have been obvious to Harry then I would not be too happy.1 -
Blimey, people are getting in a froth again on here!
I thought the Royal Family were losing their relevance with younger generations - seems to not be the case at all.0 -
Haha.david37 said:
Constant and incessant racism across the board?????? no constant whiningrick_chasey said:
Explain to me how you call it out then?bompington said:
You're not wrong, but isn't this actually just a type of whataboutery?rick_chasey said:
If you honestly think white people suffer more from accusations of racism that victims of racism I don't think you understand the problem, genuinely.DeVlaeminck said:
Like Danny Baker? Obviously don't be racist but for me he wasn't racist and he lost his job/career over accusations of racism and has to live with the stigma of that. I use that example as it relates to Meghan and Harry.ddraver said:
don't be racist?Jezyboy said:The current culture of Internet shaming means that in many cases, individuals can suffer greatly from being racist or (if I'm being contentious) being seen to be racist.
Being racist on twitter can see you getting sacked which is disastrous on an individual level. Whereas having one racist joke made about you probably doesn't do extreme harm.
Of course, over time lots of racist abuse is going to be awful for anyone's mental state.
So what's the answer? I don't have a clue.
Individual cases have to be taken as such.
What is it about racism that makes it OK for someone to have their life ruined by false accusations of it?
What's your solution? You have evidence across the board of constant and relentless racism and you're worried about a radio presenter gobshite on a radio station with a small audience?
There is absolutely a problem that when you discuss the issue of racism or diversity, white men, especially older men, feel threatened by the discussion, and often feel accused.
In the real world one needs to be sensitive to that as they are usually (or in my experience always) the people with the power to change it. If you want to make progress, you need to approach it in a different way (which, FWIW, I do and have, with success).
The reaction to "but what about false accusations" is really a question of feeling threatened by something - you're worried you or someone you know and like might be falsely accused.
But because you likely don't know many young black men, you're quite relaxed about the *police* falsely accusing them of a crime, for example.
So there is a disconnect. I get it, it threatens white men and they're not used to that - and i'll include myself in that.
But the solution to the racism problem isn't to say "let's not talk about it" or "keep it to yourself" or "only bring it when someone says something explicit" because that doesn't move the dial on the actual problem.
White men feel accused??? they are. Directly and regularly.
Personally unlike most on here im not racist. I treat people as people, I think of people as people and if they're black or white straight or gay or bi or young or old they're people.
Perhaps if some victim groups stopped identifying themselves by their characteristics they could get on and achieve something.
they perpetuate the problem. no one owes anyone a living, sooner they get that through whatever status related shoulder chips they're carrying the sooner we can all get on.
and this constant snowflake rushing from one panic to another like a flock of chicken lickins exacerbates the problem. there needs to be balance for progress.
eg person drives round London on the wrong side of the road, refuses to identify themselves then kicks off is not racism. and being an MP or athlete doesn't make acting like a drug dealer any less likely to get you pulled over.
Complains about white men being accused of racism, then goes and calls everyone on here racist.
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There are only about 3 of us under 40 here...pinkbikini said:Blimey, people are getting in a froth again on here!
I thought the Royal Family were losing their relevance with younger generations - seems to not be the case at all.We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver1 -
I, personally, am shocked to hear that there may be hints of a slightly less than progressive attitude among at least one member of a hereditary royal family. To. The. Core.1
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Absolutely.imposter2.0 said:
A better question from the journo might have been "is anyone in your family racist?"blazing_saddles said:
If you choose to characterise an entire family in 2021 based upon the historical remarks of a bloke born in 1921, then Harry’s more recent racist misdemeanours would have to characterise his new family.
Far better"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
It's about as helpful as asking a rider if they're doping, or "is anyone on your team doping?"blazing_saddles said:
Absolutely.imposter2.0 said:
A better question from the journo might have been "is anyone in your family racist?"blazing_saddles said:
If you choose to characterise an entire family in 2021 based upon the historical remarks of a bloke born in 1921, then Harry’s more recent racist misdemeanours would have to characterise his new family.
Far better0
