The Royals
Comments
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Should hang or behead them both.john80 said:In all this it is assumed that Meghan and Harry are mere plebs. If the claim is true that someone queried the babies colour in a manner that is rascist both of them are in a good position to shut that down. If it is a staffer do we really believe that Harry has not got the power to influence that person's propsects. If it was a family member it should have been called out at the time. The whole thing is an embarrassment for all concerned.
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Why? did she provide any credible evidence? and who are you to announce how people should react or behave or how they should think?elbowloh said:
You don't have to believe her no, but you should be open minded when someone says they've been suicidal and a victim of racism.shortfall said:
As opposed to her calling people whatever she wants without any proof but we have to believe her?elbowloh said:
It's got absolutely nothing to do with woke. He called her a liar and has no evidence for that. It's about him sulking because she cut him off and his ego not being able to take it.david37 said:Good news Piers isn't changing his mind. Good on him.
All this woke victimhood is tedious. She was an actress. its one of the ways they get ahead. The other is nobbing princes https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-56343768
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That Danny Baker is the closest example you have is not a great argument really. At very best it was spectacularly dumb.DeVlaeminck said:
Like Danny Baker? Obviously don't be racist but for me he wasn't racist and he lost his job/career over accusations of racism and has to live with the stigma of that. I use that example as it relates to Meghan and Harry.ddraver said:
don't be racist?Jezyboy said:The current culture of Internet shaming means that in many cases, individuals can suffer greatly from being racist or (if I'm being contentious) being seen to be racist.
Being racist on twitter can see you getting sacked which is disastrous on an individual level. Whereas having one racist joke made about you probably doesn't do extreme harm.
Of course, over time lots of racist abuse is going to be awful for anyone's mental state.
So what's the answer? I don't have a clue.
Individual cases have to be taken as such.
I really haven't had to try that hard at all and I haven't done a racist for years...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
If you honestly think white people suffer more from accusations of racism that victims of racism I don't think you understand the problem, genuinely.DeVlaeminck said:
Like Danny Baker? Obviously don't be racist but for me he wasn't racist and he lost his job/career over accusations of racism and has to live with the stigma of that. I use that example as it relates to Meghan and Harry.ddraver said:
don't be racist?Jezyboy said:The current culture of Internet shaming means that in many cases, individuals can suffer greatly from being racist or (if I'm being contentious) being seen to be racist.
Being racist on twitter can see you getting sacked which is disastrous on an individual level. Whereas having one racist joke made about you probably doesn't do extreme harm.
Of course, over time lots of racist abuse is going to be awful for anyone's mental state.
So what's the answer? I don't have a clue.
Individual cases have to be taken as such.1 -
Shouldn't you at least call for his citizenship to be removed first?david37 said:
Should hang or behead them both.john80 said:In all this it is assumed that Meghan and Harry are mere plebs. If the claim is true that someone queried the babies colour in a manner that is rascist both of them are in a good position to shut that down. If it is a staffer do we really believe that Harry has not got the power to influence that person's propsects. If it was a family member it should have been called out at the time. The whole thing is an embarrassment for all concerned.
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At risk of getting embroiled in a thread I don't really care about, you'd imagine that if it came up as part of a rosy afternoon tea chat about what the baby might look like they probably wouldn't have felt the need to move across the planet. Judging by how the press has reacted I bet they are quite pleased with their decision to leave.
My issue with 'cancel culture' isn't that the reaction to making racist comments is too harsh, just that there has to be a point where an apology or misunderstanding is accepted.
On that note, Piers b*ggering off isn't a bad thing, it's good to have differing opnions in the public eye but not if all they do is shout people down and make reactionary comments for bait. He's not respectful and clearly not a fan of good natured debate so he is part of the problem that he moans so much about.2 -
Says the guy who just called for hanging/beheading....david37 said:
Why? did she provide any credible evidence? and who are you to announce how people should react or behave or how they should think?elbowloh said:
You don't have to believe her no, but you should be open minded when someone says they've been suicidal and a victim of racism.shortfall said:
As opposed to her calling people whatever she wants without any proof but we have to believe her?elbowloh said:
It's got absolutely nothing to do with woke. He called her a liar and has no evidence for that. It's about him sulking because she cut him off and his ego not being able to take it.david37 said:Good news Piers isn't changing his mind. Good on him.
All this woke victimhood is tedious. She was an actress. its one of the ways they get ahead. The other is nobbing princes https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-563437680 -
Danny Baker the well known racist Millwall fan?DeVlaeminck said:
Its an opinion but not one I agree with. If you are accused of racism you can suffer quite a bit even if you had no racist intent whatsoever - Danny Baker being a case in point related to the royals.rick_chasey said:imposter2.0 said:
I tend to agree. Although as far as I'm concerned, the inference can be taken that the comment was made by either his dad, or his brother. I think he mentioned in the interview that he was 'rebuilding' relationships with both of them at the moment - so calling them out as potentially racist during the interview might not have been the best way forward...john80 said:In all this it is assumed that Meghan and Harry are mere plebs. If the claim is true that someone queried the babies colour in a manner that is rascist both of them are in a good position to shut that down. If it is a staffer do we really believe that Harry has not got the power to influence that person's propsects. If it was a family member it should have been called out at the time. The whole thing is an embarrassment for all concerned.
The terms of this law are simple and universal: they state that a white person or institution accused of racism has suffered far more than a black person who has been the victim of racism..The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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You're not wrong, but isn't this actually just a type of whataboutery?rick_chasey said:
If you honestly think white people suffer more from accusations of racism that victims of racism I don't think you understand the problem, genuinely.DeVlaeminck said:
Like Danny Baker? Obviously don't be racist but for me he wasn't racist and he lost his job/career over accusations of racism and has to live with the stigma of that. I use that example as it relates to Meghan and Harry.ddraver said:
don't be racist?Jezyboy said:The current culture of Internet shaming means that in many cases, individuals can suffer greatly from being racist or (if I'm being contentious) being seen to be racist.
Being racist on twitter can see you getting sacked which is disastrous on an individual level. Whereas having one racist joke made about you probably doesn't do extreme harm.
Of course, over time lots of racist abuse is going to be awful for anyone's mental state.
So what's the answer? I don't have a clue.
Individual cases have to be taken as such.
What is it about racism that makes it OK for someone to have their life ruined by false accusations of it?3 -
ddraver said:
That Danny Baker is the closest example you have is not a great argument really. At very best it was spectacularly dumb.DeVlaeminck said:
Like Danny Baker? Obviously don't be racist but for me he wasn't racist and he lost his job/career over accusations of racism and has to live with the stigma of that. I use that example as it relates to Meghan and Harry.ddraver said:
don't be racist?Jezyboy said:The current culture of Internet shaming means that in many cases, individuals can suffer greatly from being racist or (if I'm being contentious) being seen to be racist.
Being racist on twitter can see you getting sacked which is disastrous on an individual level. Whereas having one racist joke made about you probably doesn't do extreme harm.
Of course, over time lots of racist abuse is going to be awful for anyone's mental state.
So what's the answer? I don't have a clue.
Individual cases have to be taken as such.
I really haven't had to try that hard at all and I haven't done a racist for years...
Why was it "at very best spectacularly dumb"?
Unless you are saying he did it with racist intent - that he chose that moment to reveal his long disguised racism and deliberately sacrifice his career surely at the absolute worst - if you wanted to be really uncharitable - it was spectacularly dumb.
And as I say the Danny Baker example is just one that springs to mind as it relates to Meghan and Harry - I haven't researched and that's the best I could find - you only need one example to disprove the so called "universal law" I was commenting on.
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]1 -
Explain to me how you call it out then?bompington said:
You're not wrong, but isn't this actually just a type of whataboutery?rick_chasey said:
If you honestly think white people suffer more from accusations of racism that victims of racism I don't think you understand the problem, genuinely.DeVlaeminck said:
Like Danny Baker? Obviously don't be racist but for me he wasn't racist and he lost his job/career over accusations of racism and has to live with the stigma of that. I use that example as it relates to Meghan and Harry.ddraver said:
don't be racist?Jezyboy said:The current culture of Internet shaming means that in many cases, individuals can suffer greatly from being racist or (if I'm being contentious) being seen to be racist.
Being racist on twitter can see you getting sacked which is disastrous on an individual level. Whereas having one racist joke made about you probably doesn't do extreme harm.
Of course, over time lots of racist abuse is going to be awful for anyone's mental state.
So what's the answer? I don't have a clue.
Individual cases have to be taken as such.
What is it about racism that makes it OK for someone to have their life ruined by false accusations of it?
What's your solution? You have evidence across the board of constant and relentless racism and you're worried about a radio presenter gobshite on a radio station with a small audience?
There is absolutely a problem that when you discuss the issue of racism or diversity, white men, especially older men, feel threatened by the discussion, and often feel accused.
In the real world one needs to be sensitive to that as they are usually (or in my experience always) the people with the power to change it. If you want to make progress, you need to approach it in a different way (which, FWIW, I do and have, with success).
The reaction to "but what about false accusations" is really a question of feeling threatened by something - you're worried you or someone you know and like might be falsely accused.
But because you likely don't know many young black men, you're quite relaxed about the *police* falsely accusing them of a crime, for example.
So there is a disconnect. I get it, it threatens white men and they're not used to that - and i'll include myself in that.
But the solution to the racism problem isn't to say "let's not talk about it" or "keep it to yourself" or "only bring it when someone says something explicit" because that doesn't move the dial on the actual problem.
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You have to take each instance individually - look at things on their merits. There are times you clearly don't do that.rick_chasey said:
If you honestly think white people suffer more from accusations of racism that victims of racism I don't think you understand the problem, genuinely.DeVlaeminck said:
Like Danny Baker? Obviously don't be racist but for me he wasn't racist and he lost his job/career over accusations of racism and has to live with the stigma of that. I use that example as it relates to Meghan and Harry.ddraver said:
don't be racist?Jezyboy said:The current culture of Internet shaming means that in many cases, individuals can suffer greatly from being racist or (if I'm being contentious) being seen to be racist.
Being racist on twitter can see you getting sacked which is disastrous on an individual level. Whereas having one racist joke made about you probably doesn't do extreme harm.
Of course, over time lots of racist abuse is going to be awful for anyone's mental state.
So what's the answer? I don't have a clue.
Individual cases have to be taken as such.
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]2 -
FWIW, I think so-called zero-tolerance approaches are not helpful. They can lead to an over-reaction to relatively minor transgressions, which then undermines efforts to deal with more serious offences. That said appearing to let the minor stuff slide also erodes trust that the problem is being taken seriously. Ditto endlessly being asked to 'prove' that this or that was not just a misunderstanding/coincidence/whatever.bompington said:
You're not wrong, but isn't this actually just a type of whataboutery?rick_chasey said:
If you honestly think white people suffer more from accusations of racism that victims of racism I don't think you understand the problem, genuinely.DeVlaeminck said:
Like Danny Baker? Obviously don't be racist but for me he wasn't racist and he lost his job/career over accusations of racism and has to live with the stigma of that. I use that example as it relates to Meghan and Harry.ddraver said:
don't be racist?Jezyboy said:The current culture of Internet shaming means that in many cases, individuals can suffer greatly from being racist or (if I'm being contentious) being seen to be racist.
Being racist on twitter can see you getting sacked which is disastrous on an individual level. Whereas having one racist joke made about you probably doesn't do extreme harm.
Of course, over time lots of racist abuse is going to be awful for anyone's mental state.
So what's the answer? I don't have a clue.
Individual cases have to be taken as such.
What is it about racism that makes it OK for someone to have their life ruined by false accusations of it?1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
After all this discussion, I'm starting to doubt that thing about uncle handsy not being able to sweat.1
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I guess I am always talking about the macro picture and how small things fit into that.DeVlaeminck said:
You have to take each instance individually - look at things on their merits. There are times you clearly don't do that.rick_chasey said:
If you honestly think white people suffer more from accusations of racism that victims of racism I don't think you understand the problem, genuinely.DeVlaeminck said:
Like Danny Baker? Obviously don't be racist but for me he wasn't racist and he lost his job/career over accusations of racism and has to live with the stigma of that. I use that example as it relates to Meghan and Harry.ddraver said:
don't be racist?Jezyboy said:The current culture of Internet shaming means that in many cases, individuals can suffer greatly from being racist or (if I'm being contentious) being seen to be racist.
Being racist on twitter can see you getting sacked which is disastrous on an individual level. Whereas having one racist joke made about you probably doesn't do extreme harm.
Of course, over time lots of racist abuse is going to be awful for anyone's mental state.
So what's the answer? I don't have a clue.
Individual cases have to be taken as such.
You seem to want to only bring up instances where white men suffer and never when minorities suffer from discrimination.
Why is the white man being falsely accused always the go-to example for you, and not, say, Stephen Lawrence? I mean that as an honest question - I can hazard a guess, that you identify more closely with Danny Baker than you do with Stephen Lawrence (aside from the being alive bit).0 -
The whole "cancel culture" resonates with people is because they feel threatened and they feel their opinions generate a hostile reaction, which leads them to not want to express it freely.
They rally around gobshites who like the attention and don't mind a hostile reaction as they express their views and take the heat for them.
The thing is, with jobs, there are always things you can't say. I can't call my arrogant client who doesn't understand the role an arrogant man who doesn't understand what he's telling me to do, as I'd lose my job.
That's not a challenge against free speech. That's the nature of the job.
Same with Morgan - he decided to spout off about someone saying their felt like they wanted to kill themselves and it was deemed by the employer to not be appropriate for his job.
He can still spout off about it - after all, there's free speech. It just means that he can't be saying that stuff in the job he had.
The idea that there isn't free speech is nonsense. No-ones' going to jail for saying things.
instead, what people mean is they want to say what they want to say without getting a hostile response from people. Well grow up, this is what free speech is as much as giving your own opinion is - opining on other opinions.0 -
"My view that was once mainstream isn't mainstream anymore and it generates a bad reaction. Waaah, I'm so upset, i'm being cancelled"
No you're not, you hold a view people don't like for a change, get over it.0 -
Ah yes, the old white fragility ploy - if you don't like being called racist it just proves how racist you are.2
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I think I will just continue to use my white privilege to call out racists where I encounter it and leave the affluent and powerful to manage their own affairs. It is the black cleaner getting screwed over that concerns me more than Meghan and Harry.1
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No that’s not what I’m saying.bompington said:Ah yes, the old white fragility ploy - if you don't like being called racist it just proves how racist you are.
But I find it remarkable that any discussion on the topic always brings out examples of the falsely accused white old man and never examples of racism.0 -
rick_chasey said:
I guess I am always talking about the macro picture and how small things fit into that.DeVlaeminck said:
You have to take each instance individually - look at things on their merits. There are times you clearly don't do that.rick_chasey said:
If you honestly think white people suffer more from accusations of racism that victims of racism I don't think you understand the problem, genuinely.DeVlaeminck said:
Like Danny Baker? Obviously don't be racist but for me he wasn't racist and he lost his job/career over accusations of racism and has to live with the stigma of that. I use that example as it relates to Meghan and Harry.ddraver said:
don't be racist?Jezyboy said:The current culture of Internet shaming means that in many cases, individuals can suffer greatly from being racist or (if I'm being contentious) being seen to be racist.
Being racist on twitter can see you getting sacked which is disastrous on an individual level. Whereas having one racist joke made about you probably doesn't do extreme harm.
Of course, over time lots of racist abuse is going to be awful for anyone's mental state.
So what's the answer? I don't have a clue.
Individual cases have to be taken as such.
You seem to want to only bring up instances where white men suffer and never when minorities suffer from discrimination.
Why is the white man being falsely accused always the go-to example for you, and not, say, Stephen Lawrence? I mean that as an honest question - I can hazard a guess, that you identify more closely with Danny Baker than you do with Stephen Lawrence (aside from the being alive bit).
I could respond Rick but I don't really want to get into a discussion about me except to say I've commented in support of women's rights and gay rights (such as gay marriage) and I am neither female nor gay. If I comment more about issues of race from a white perspective that doesn't invalidate points I make - of course neither does it make them correct.
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Possibly because nobody takes issues with serious cases of racism.rick_chasey said:
No that’s not what I’m saying.bompington said:Ah yes, the old white fragility ploy - if you don't like being called racist it just proves how racist you are.
But I find it remarkable that any discussion on the topic always brings out examples of the falsely accused white old man and never examples of racism.
Grey areas cause debate.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I largely agree with your view Rick but there are other factors to consider.
As what is assumed to be a largely middle aged, white male demographic in UK, most of us are unlikely to encounter racism.
However, we could theoretically be racist or accused of racism (accurately or otherwise), so the accusation of racism is more of a potential risk to most of the individuals here.
The real problem is an inability to look beyond that personal perspective and see that racism really is a significant issue that needs change from all parts of society.1 -
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How many individual instances do you need before you start wondering if there might be a bigger problem?DeVlaeminck said:
You have to take each instance individually - look at things on their merits. There are times you clearly don't do that.rick_chasey said:
If you honestly think white people suffer more from accusations of racism that victims of racism I don't think you understand the problem, genuinely.DeVlaeminck said:
Like Danny Baker? Obviously don't be racist but for me he wasn't racist and he lost his job/career over accusations of racism and has to live with the stigma of that. I use that example as it relates to Meghan and Harry.ddraver said:
don't be racist?Jezyboy said:The current culture of Internet shaming means that in many cases, individuals can suffer greatly from being racist or (if I'm being contentious) being seen to be racist.
Being racist on twitter can see you getting sacked which is disastrous on an individual level. Whereas having one racist joke made about you probably doesn't do extreme harm.
Of course, over time lots of racist abuse is going to be awful for anyone's mental state.
So what's the answer? I don't have a clue.
Individual cases have to be taken as such.We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
So, I have to show you referral letters for MH counselling in order for you to believe that I have depression? Is that how it works? Someone has to prove that they are ill, just to satisfy you?david37 said:Why? did she provide any credible evidence? and who are you to announce how people should react or behave or how they should think?
It's just a hill. Get over it.1 -
"Merits" of racism? There are scales, perhaps? From really racist to just a bit?DeVlaeminck said:
You have to take each instance individually - look at things on their merits. There are times you clearly don't do that.rick_chasey said:
If you honestly think white people suffer more from accusations of racism that victims of racism I don't think you understand the problem, genuinely.DeVlaeminck said:
Like Danny Baker? Obviously don't be racist but for me he wasn't racist and he lost his job/career over accusations of racism and has to live with the stigma of that. I use that example as it relates to Meghan and Harry.ddraver said:
don't be racist?Jezyboy said:The current culture of Internet shaming means that in many cases, individuals can suffer greatly from being racist or (if I'm being contentious) being seen to be racist.
Being racist on twitter can see you getting sacked which is disastrous on an individual level. Whereas having one racist joke made about you probably doesn't do extreme harm.
Of course, over time lots of racist abuse is going to be awful for anyone's mental state.
So what's the answer? I don't have a clue.
Individual cases have to be taken as such.
It's just a hill. Get over it.0 -
I suspect that is a rhetorical question but I would say that there are definitely degrees of racismsecretsam said:
"Merits" of racism? There are scales, perhaps? From really racist to just a bit?DeVlaeminck said:
You have to take each instance individually - look at things on their merits. There are times you clearly don't do that.rick_chasey said:
If you honestly think white people suffer more from accusations of racism that victims of racism I don't think you understand the problem, genuinely.DeVlaeminck said:
Like Danny Baker? Obviously don't be racist but for me he wasn't racist and he lost his job/career over accusations of racism and has to live with the stigma of that. I use that example as it relates to Meghan and Harry.ddraver said:
don't be racist?Jezyboy said:The current culture of Internet shaming means that in many cases, individuals can suffer greatly from being racist or (if I'm being contentious) being seen to be racist.
Being racist on twitter can see you getting sacked which is disastrous on an individual level. Whereas having one racist joke made about you probably doesn't do extreme harm.
Of course, over time lots of racist abuse is going to be awful for anyone's mental state.
So what's the answer? I don't have a clue.
Individual cases have to be taken as such.1 -
Maybe it's because I am a lot older than most on here, or maybe I am not very bright, but have to admit to being a bit lost with the direction the debate seems to have taken.
Prince William has countered Megan's accusation this morning by saying and I quote: "We're very much not a racist family."
Is this an example of what Rick calls a white man playing the victim, or can his response be given equal consideration?
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.1 -
I wouldn't worry, I don't think there is a 100% correct way of looking at it...blazing_saddles said:Maybe it's because I am a lot older than most on here, or maybe I am not very bright, but have to admit to being a bit lost with the direction the debate seems to have taken.
Prince William has countered Megan's accusation this morning by saying and I quote: "We're very much not a racist family."
Is this an example of what Rick calls a white man playing the victim, or can his response be given equal consideration?
Maybe he didn't realise that some of their actions or comments might be construed as racism. I guess he might be a lot less sensitive to the issues as Markle might be. Things mean different things to different people I guess.0
