Will you have the Covid-19 vaccine?
Comments
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in the same way I try and understand the argument against man made climate change I am trying to understand why so many countries have either not yet approved or stopped using AZpinkbikini said:Isn't the AZ vaccine the most transportable/easiest to store? I thought this would mean it would be the most effective in reducing a GLOBAL pandemic where storage and transportation are key.
The actions of some of these countries is totally baffling when you consider the global requirements. They are behaving like a bunch of anti-vaxxers.0 -
Have you ever seen a flock of geese on a river; when one starts giving out the honks often another will join in, then another, then the rest think something's up, and they join in the general cacaphony. For no apparent reason.
HumansPoliticians ain't so different.0 -
Looks like everyone within EU countries may not agree with suspensions:-
The decision by some European countries to suspend the rollout of the Oxford-AstraZeneca Covid vaccine is a "political one", the director general of Italy's medicines authority AIFA has said.
Italy, Germany, France and Spain are among the countries to halt the use of the vaccine after a number of cases of blood clots were reported in Europe following the vaccine being administered.
"We got to the point of a suspension because several European countries, including Germany and France, preferred to interrupt vaccinations... to put them on hold in order to carry out checks. The choice is a political one," Nicola Magrini told Italian daily newspaper la Repubblica.
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surrey_commuter said:
in the same way I try and understand the argument against man made climate change I am trying to understand why so many countries have either not yet approved or stopped using AZpinkbikini said:Isn't the AZ vaccine the most transportable/easiest to store? I thought this would mean it would be the most effective in reducing a GLOBAL pandemic where storage and transportation are key.
The actions of some of these countries is totally baffling when you consider the global requirements. They are behaving like a bunch of anti-vaxxers.
Because they have another option at the moment. There will be plenty of AZ capacity for the rest of the world as a result. Hopefully the debacle in Europe doesn't lead to widespread low take-up.0 -
Why? The UK Government spent most of last year doing that, you were mentioning only yesterday the decision to avoid cancelling Christmas and its likely impact on the spike in deaths I believe. I can certainly see a Government, under pressure for not rolling out the vaccine quickly enough, using the "potential side effects" argument as a justification especially if they've had contractual issued with the manufacturer. They possibly haven't considered collateral damage on the other vaccines. In terms of who is using AZ, I found this on a BBC report:surrey_commuter said:I now need to get my head around the reason being that politicians will happily kill people and wreck their economy to help them look good.
finding lists of countried that have stopped using it is easy but does anybody know who is using it?
Does anybody know if Israel have been using it?
However, Belgium, Poland, the Czech Republic and Ukraine said they would continue to administer the AstraZeneca vaccine.
Belgian Health Minister Frank Vandenbroucke said that, with a high number of cases currently, Belgium could not afford to interrupt the rollout.
"For us, the balance is clear and clean, it's a race against time," he said.
Thailand announced that it would start using the vaccine on Tuesday, following a brief delay to the rollout over safety concerns.
Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said health experts had assured him all vaccines being administered in the country, including AstraZeneca's, were safe.
The Belgian Health Minister's name is slightly unfortunate on this subject given his namesake's history with pharmaceutical products and subsequent death from a pulmonary embolism. One for the irony thread!
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Strangely in a list of leaders of established democracies I was placing oris firmly in the botto 10%. It had never crossed my mind that he is mid-table and all the others are equally corrupt, lazy and self centred.Pross said:
Why? The UK Government spent most of last year doing that, you were mentioning only yesterday the decision to avoid cancelling Christmas and its likely impact on the spike in deaths I believe. I can certainly see a Government, under pressure for not rolling out the vaccine quickly enough, using the "potential side effects" argument as a justification especially if they've had contractual issued with the manufacturer. They possibly haven't considered collateral damage on the other vaccines. In terms of who is using AZ, I found this on a BBC report:surrey_commuter said:I now need to get my head around the reason being that politicians will happily kill people and wreck their economy to help them look good.
finding lists of countried that have stopped using it is easy but does anybody know who is using it?
Does anybody know if Israel have been using it?
However, Belgium, Poland, the Czech Republic and Ukraine said they would continue to administer the AstraZeneca vaccine.
Belgian Health Minister Frank Vandenbroucke said that, with a high number of cases currently, Belgium could not afford to interrupt the rollout.
"For us, the balance is clear and clean, it's a race against time," he said.
Thailand announced that it would start using the vaccine on Tuesday, following a brief delay to the rollout over safety concerns.
Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said health experts had assured him all vaccines being administered in the country, including AstraZeneca's, were safe.
The Belgian Health Minister's name is slightly unfortunate on this subject given his namesake's history with pharmaceutical products and subsequent death from a pulmonary embolism. One for the irony thread!
It will be interesting to see what the FDA do0 -
surrey_commuter said:
I just can not get my head around the idea of a Govt casting doubt upon the safety of a vaccine (and by extension all vaccines) and condemning tens of thousands of people to death and further damaging their economies to get back at a drug company who are selling their product at costbriantrumpet said:It's not inconceivable that the EU members suspending its use are having a pop at AZ for not delivering as hoped. But it ought to be a moot point, as the EU members all have large stocks sitting in fridges unused.
How do you get your head around the Italian government blocking the export of AZ to Australia because, "the want it for their own citizens", then almost immediately after they decide against using AZ at all?
I can't see that being down to a handful of blood clots, more a case of your everyday clots in charge playing games.
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.1 -
They gain a distraction from the shocking mess they are making of their vaccination programmes.surrey_commuter said:OK, I will atempt to reply to all of the replies
what do they think they gain politically from casting doubt upon the safety of one vaccine?
They must have a sensible explanation for their decisions and it is now a good number of historically sensible countries.
A quick Google does not throw up an answer so does anybody know how many AZ doses Israel has administered?
I think your faith in them being sensible is misplaced. They are just as vulnerable to populist nonsense as we are.
No idea about Israel, but it's not really relevant.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Has anyone mentioned a not-so-rare side-effect of the contraceptive pill, yet?Ben
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People are terrible at comparing risks. Unknown unquantified risks always trump quantifiable risks. The risks from contracting Covid are comparatively well known, compared with what is perceived to be an unknown risk of harm from the vaccine. Perversely, the tiny number of adverse reactions to the vaccine make it more scary, because it seems so inexplicable.surrey_commuter said:
in the same way I try and understand the argument against man made climate change I am trying to understand why so many countries have either not yet approved or stopped using AZpinkbikini said:Isn't the AZ vaccine the most transportable/easiest to store? I thought this would mean it would be the most effective in reducing a GLOBAL pandemic where storage and transportation are key.
The actions of some of these countries is totally baffling when you consider the global requirements. They are behaving like a bunch of anti-vaxxers.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
At the risk of stereotyping, it's the Italian government.blazing_saddles said:surrey_commuter said:
I just can not get my head around the idea of a Govt casting doubt upon the safety of a vaccine (and by extension all vaccines) and condemning tens of thousands of people to death and further damaging their economies to get back at a drug company who are selling their product at costbriantrumpet said:It's not inconceivable that the EU members suspending its use are having a pop at AZ for not delivering as hoped. But it ought to be a moot point, as the EU members all have large stocks sitting in fridges unused.
How do you get your head around the Italian government blocking the export of AZ to Australia because, "the want it for their own citizens", then almost immediately after they decide against using AZ at all?
I can't see that being down to a handful of blood clots, more a case of your everyday clots in charge playing games.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
the mentality of the French and the eu here for all to see. from a BBC interview
Véronique Trillet-Lenoir, who is a French oncologist and an MEP, is asked by BBC News why the AstraZeneca vaccine is coming under more scrutiny than other authorised vaccines such as the Pfizer vaccine.
"We have maybe a specific regard on AstraZeneca. As you know, the firm did probably not fulfil all the commitments [it] made in the contracts with the EU. The vaccine is not that effective on the South African variant, so there are some warnings on these vaccines, which probably led the governments to be even more cautious on it."
On the suggestion that the decision might be seen as a political move, she says that as a medical doctor, she tries to "stick to the scientific evidence" and hopes the suspension will be lifted if the vaccine is shown to be safe for specific populations.
she's reported as being an oncologist but I'm not sure muppets are given a licence to practice. for MEP's however muppetry seems a given.0 -
Politician says decision is not political...not sure what else we would expect them to say?veronese68 said:
Newspapers report on a non-story that frightens some of the population, politicians play to this saying they are protecting their citizens. They are playing politics with people's health and you are falling for it.joe2019 said:elbowloh said:
There isn't a problem with the AZ vaccine. I can only conclude that there is a political decision being made in spite of protestations to the contrary.joe2019 said:elbowloh said:
Well, it's clearly not based on the scientific evidence as there is a higher number of cases of thrombosis per capita in people who haven't had the vaccine. If anything, that implies having the vaccine reduces your risk of thrombosis (slightly facetious, but coincidentally true).joe2019 said:Ireland, Holland, Germany, France and Italy suspend AZ vaccine.
"The background to this decision follows new reports of cases of cerebral vein thrombosis connected with an AstraZeneca vaccination. In light of these newly reported cases, the Paul Ehrlich Institute today re-evaluated the situation and recommended a suspension of vaccinations and further analysis." Germany's Health Minister Jens Spahn said.
He said the decision was "not political". "All of us are very aware of the consequences of this decision, and we did not take this decision lightly,"
That's what i thought too. So why the problem with AZ, if the same is true, or statistically worse, in the population vaccinated with the other vaccines?
How can you be certain of that?
Political decision being made by so many countries?
On a slightly different note, I had my first jab 3 weeks ago and I'm feeling fine - apart from being narked that the pubs are still closed."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]1 -
Someone I know had theirs on Saturday morning and felt terrible all day Sunday however they're not sure if it was the jab or all the beer while watching the rugby.Stevo_666 said:
Politician says decision is not political...not sure what else we would expect them to say?veronese68 said:
Newspapers report on a non-story that frightens some of the population, politicians play to this saying they are protecting their citizens. They are playing politics with people's health and you are falling for it.joe2019 said:elbowloh said:
There isn't a problem with the AZ vaccine. I can only conclude that there is a political decision being made in spite of protestations to the contrary.joe2019 said:elbowloh said:
Well, it's clearly not based on the scientific evidence as there is a higher number of cases of thrombosis per capita in people who haven't had the vaccine. If anything, that implies having the vaccine reduces your risk of thrombosis (slightly facetious, but coincidentally true).joe2019 said:Ireland, Holland, Germany, France and Italy suspend AZ vaccine.
"The background to this decision follows new reports of cases of cerebral vein thrombosis connected with an AstraZeneca vaccination. In light of these newly reported cases, the Paul Ehrlich Institute today re-evaluated the situation and recommended a suspension of vaccinations and further analysis." Germany's Health Minister Jens Spahn said.
He said the decision was "not political". "All of us are very aware of the consequences of this decision, and we did not take this decision lightly,"
That's what i thought too. So why the problem with AZ, if the same is true, or statistically worse, in the population vaccinated with the other vaccines?
How can you be certain of that?
Political decision being made by so many countries?
On a slightly different note, I had my first jab 3 weeks ago and I'm feeling fine - apart from being narked that the pubs are still closed.
Right as rain by Monday though.
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When your head medical guy is saying it is nothing to do with him the politicians really have messed up. I think this is on par with not acknowledging the disease in the first place in terms of level of incompetence.wilberforce said:Looks like everyone within EU countries may not agree with suspensions:-
The decision by some European countries to suspend the rollout of the Oxford-AstraZeneca Covid vaccine is a "political one", the director general of Italy's medicines authority AIFA has said.
Italy, Germany, France and Spain are among the countries to halt the use of the vaccine after a number of cases of blood clots were reported in Europe following the vaccine being administered.
"We got to the point of a suspension because several European countries, including Germany and France, preferred to interrupt vaccinations... to put them on hold in order to carry out checks. The choice is a political one," Nicola Magrini told Italian daily newspaper la Repubblica.0 -
Clearly political, as I mentioned above.john80 said:
When your head medical guy is saying it is nothing to do with him the politicians really have messed up. I think this is on par with not acknowledging the disease in the first place in terms of level of incompetence.wilberforce said:Looks like everyone within EU countries may not agree with suspensions:-
The decision by some European countries to suspend the rollout of the Oxford-AstraZeneca Covid vaccine is a "political one", the director general of Italy's medicines authority AIFA has said.
Italy, Germany, France and Spain are among the countries to halt the use of the vaccine after a number of cases of blood clots were reported in Europe following the vaccine being administered.
"We got to the point of a suspension because several European countries, including Germany and France, preferred to interrupt vaccinations... to put them on hold in order to carry out checks. The choice is a political one," Nicola Magrini told Italian daily newspaper la Repubblica.
They've ballsed it up enough already and this is just making things worse.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Am I being a bit thick here, but why has a French oncogist been asked about (a) politics (b) epidemiology?0
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Because she's also an MEP?First.Aspect said:Am I being a bit thick here, but why has a French oncogist been asked about (a) politics (b) epidemiology?
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Yes. Yes I am.Pross said:
Because she's also an MEP?First.Aspect said:Am I being a bit thick here, but why has a French oncogist been asked about (a) politics (b) epidemiology?
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Sore arm 24 hours after jab and felt slightly off and achy for best part of a day. Pretty sure that has all cleared up now.
AZ, awaiting blood clots and imminent death as we speak.1 -
I felt like sh1t after both occasions when I had the flu had and also after one of the more exotic optional but recommended jabs for a holiday to Turkey. I also made the mistake of knocking the blister from my TB jab on a door which made it swell right up so I'll be amazed if I don't get some side effects from whichever Covid have I get. Is there any vaccine which doesn't cause side effects in some people?0
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Can I have your bikes if it comes to that?morstar said:Sore arm 24 hours after jab and felt slightly off and achy for best part of a day. Pretty sure that has all cleared up now.
AZ, awaiting blood clots and imminent death as we speak.0 -
I am being buried with them!veronese68 said:
Can I have your bikes if it comes to that?morstar said:Sore arm 24 hours after jab and felt slightly off and achy for best part of a day. Pretty sure that has all cleared up now.
AZ, awaiting blood clots and imminent death as we speak.2 -
morstar said:
I am being buried with them!veronese68 said:
Can I have your bikes if it comes to that?morstar said:Sore arm 24 hours after jab and felt slightly off and achy for best part of a day. Pretty sure that has all cleared up now.
AZ, awaiting blood clots and imminent death as we speak.
Don't get cremated then, as they'll offer the charred groupsets to your relations, as they did with my mum's hip replacement.0 -
No strong clinical evidence, in fact the opposite: studies show that the rate of blood clots was lower than expected among the vaccinated group. Blood clots are quite common. No causality demonstrated.joe2019 said:pblakeney said:
Rather strange viewpoint rom someone that is going to have the vaccine.joe2019 said:pblakeney said:Regardless. "No" still has 0%.
Possibly not so many visitors to the thread from Denmark, Norway, Iceland, Austria, Italy, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania or Luxembourg.
"Yeah, got my invite today, booked in for the 26th." Pick a stance and stand by it.
You're right, I'll take up my previous stance, and be in no rush... issues already, not good.
It's just a hill. Get over it.0 -
Pretty much any medicine has side effects. Ever read those little leaflets that come with meds?Pross said:I felt like censored after both occasions when I had the flu had and also after one of the more exotic optional but recommended jabs for a holiday to Turkey. I also made the mistake of knocking the blister from my TB jab on a door which made it swell right up so I'll be amazed if I don't get some side effects from whichever Covid have I get. Is there any vaccine which doesn't cause side effects in some people?
Anecdotal evidence from people I know who've been jabbed (including Doctors and Nurses) are that you feel pretty lousy for 24-48h after, maybe a bit 'flu'ey. Rather like the 'Flu jab.
It's just a hill. Get over it.0 -
Re side effects.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56375307
Most surprising thing was the claim the writer is in his mid 30’s0 -
https://health.mountsinai.org/blog/can-i-get-a-blood-clot-from-sitting-at-my-computer/#:~:text=Is this possible?,other parts of the body.
I'm refusing to work until my employer sorts this out.1 -
Bike cremations. Hmmmm interesting business idea.briantrumpet said:morstar said:
I am being buried with them!veronese68 said:
Can I have your bikes if it comes to that?morstar said:Sore arm 24 hours after jab and felt slightly off and achy for best part of a day. Pretty sure that has all cleared up now.
AZ, awaiting blood clots and imminent death as we speak.
Don't get cremated then, as they'll offer the charred groupsets to your relations, as they did with my mum's hip replacement.0
