Will you have the Covid-19 vaccine?
Comments
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Yes, I have tried to explain the difference between infection and injection... the former leads to 6,000 coffins every 600,000 infections, the latter leads to 1 blood clot every 600,000 injections... and then you have to split that 1 in 4, because only 25% actually die of said blood clot...sungod said:
a lot of people seem incapable of understanding risk/probability, hence the roaring success of lotteries, betting companies etc. in separating them from their moneybriantrumpet said:Still the reporting of the few blood clotting issues continues, with never a mention of the cases for the other ones. Given it's about seven deaths in the UK, even if it's a causal link, it's a tiny number. If 17m doses have been given in the UK, even if it's proved that it directly caused 7 deaths, that's a 1:2,000,000 risk.
For comparison, the figure for aspirin-induced death is about 25 per million. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16086703/
A friend of mine who had a kidney transplant several years back is on a cocktail of drugs, one of which has a possible side effect of "may cause kidney failure". Obviously, for whatever it does, the benefit outweighs the risk.
when it comes to a new risk, as from the vaccine, they perceive only additional risk, not the differential risk vs. 'doing nothing'
stupid apes
left the forum March 20230 -
Still correlation, causation questionable.
I would like to see the comparable stats for the blood clot cases in those who have not received the vaccine given equal meejah push.
Given the blood clot condition predates the arrival of the AZ vaccine...0 -
orraloon said:
Still correlation, causation questionable.
I would like to see the comparable stats for the blood clot cases in those who have not received the vaccine given equal meejah push.
Given the blood clot condition predates the arrival of the AZ vaccine...
Yes, all of this. I think the reporting is being driven by two agendas: the general media hinger for controversy and clicks, and a political & commercial agenda happy to feed the AZ 'clot' story. They are taking advantage of the risk-averse regulatory bodies (the aversion there for all the right reasons) and a manipulable public perception of risk. The reporting of the *one* clotting case in Australia (not even fatal) was shameful: no context, and no comparison with general rates or against other vaccines.0 -
I know how you feel, I got called up to have mine on Thursday. I was expecting it to be in about a month and probably longer with the talk of delays in supply. I feel a bit of a fraud when there are people still in frontline or public facing jobs that have to wait but ultimately all the vulnerable people have had theirs / been offered it. I'm hoping getting it earlier than expected isn't a sign that take up is dropping off.elbowloh said:My wife and I have had the vaccine now. We're offered it as we have a baby and they said we were unpaid carers. I was skeptical to wife rang up pharmacy that was running the service and they said yes and that we could go the next day. There were more slots free on the day than had been booked. The place was empty when we go there, no queue, in and out in 5 mins. Arm is sore and can't sleep on it. Had the shivers and felt a bit under the weather, but otherwise ok. I did feel slightly guilty and maybe we were taking the wee wee, but they were adamant we qualified and there were so many free slots that otherwise wouldn't have been used.
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there's not enough data being published to say, but to be fair it may not even be available and some will be sensitive - exact timing, demographics, individuals' health, medical history, medication etc.orraloon said:Still correlation, causation questionable.
I would like to see the comparable stats for the blood clot cases in those who have not received the vaccine given equal meejah push.
Given the blood clot condition predates the arrival of the AZ vaccine...
there are some figures in the media about x clots per million being 'normal', but without a lot more context it's bordering on disinformation - the press are almost as bad as politicians when it comes to numbers and pumping out nonsense to appease the unwary is a propaganda standard
even if there is an increase, that might be because post-jab they stopped being careful, caught covid and the virus then caused a clotting abnormality, a known effect
it's still looking far safer to be vaccinated than catch to covid
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
the jab that gives some people a stroke. Come and have it. im not sure id have accepted the astra zeneca jab had i known. Especially since i had the virus anyway.0
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The jab that gives so few people a stroke that even after millions of doses being given it looks like fewer than would be expected in the general population. Yes, that one.0
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I'm keeping an open mind. especially having heard one scientist on the BBC saying it was still safer to have it even though their expectation is that the jab will be shown to be causal. Id rather chose one without the additional risk.veronese68 said:The jab that gives so few people a stroke that even after millions of doses being given it looks like fewer than would be expected in the general population. Yes, that one.
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Most likely that they've just not spotted the risks with the other vaccines yet. There will be some: every treatment carries risks.david37 said:
I'm keeping an open mind. especially having heard one scientist on the BBC saying it was still safer to have it even though their expectation is that the jab will be shown to be causal. Id rather chose one without the additional risk.veronese68 said:The jab that gives so few people a stroke that even after millions of doses being given it looks like fewer than would be expected in the general population. Yes, that one.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Seems like the UK has turned coat on the AZ vaccine too.0
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I know a few u30s who have had a single AZ dose who aren't sure they are going to have the second.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0
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My wife (49) who is strongly in favour of getting a vaccine has said that she will not accept the AZ vaccine.
I've had my first dose (AZ) and being male, I'll get the second done when it is offered.1 -
You are more likely to die on the road on the way there.DeVlaeminck said:I know a few u30s who have had a single AZ dose who aren't sure they are going to have the second.
About 1 in 40000 people die in rta's every year in the UK. The risk from the AZ vaccine seems to be about 1 in 1000000. Do these u30s leave the house at all?0 -
First.Aspect said:
You are more likely to die on the road on the way there.DeVlaeminck said:I know a few u30s who have had a single AZ dose who aren't sure they are going to have the second.
About 1 in 40000 people die in rta's every year in the UK. The risk from the AZ vaccine seems to be about 1 in 1000000. Do these u30s leave the house at all?
Of course that is true, but that's a calculated risk we all take going about our daily lives on most days. The AZ vaccine is a risk people don't have to take.
The figures, however remote, are of no consolation to the 19 people in the UK alone, who have lost their lives due to this vaccine.0 -
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I'm more concerned about the hundreds of thousands, millions, globally who will avoid any vaccine now because they are fearful of them!?joe2019 said:First.Aspect said:
You are more likely to die on the road on the way there.DeVlaeminck said:I know a few u30s who have had a single AZ dose who aren't sure they are going to have the second.
About 1 in 40000 people die in rta's every year in the UK. The risk from the AZ vaccine seems to be about 1 in 1000000. Do these u30s leave the house at all?
Of course that is true, but that's a calculated risk we all take going about our daily lives on most days. The AZ vaccine is a risk people don't have to take.
The figures, however remote, are of no consolation to the 19 people in the UK alone, who have lost their lives due to this vaccine.
The risks being their life or future health.0 -
You don't have to drive anywhere. That is a choice.joe2019 said:First.Aspect said:
You are more likely to die on the road on the way there.DeVlaeminck said:I know a few u30s who have had a single AZ dose who aren't sure they are going to have the second.
About 1 in 40000 people die in rta's every year in the UK. The risk from the AZ vaccine seems to be about 1 in 1000000. Do these u30s leave the house at all?
Of course that is true, but that's a calculated risk we all take going about our daily lives on most days. The AZ vaccine is a risk people don't have to take.
The figures, however remote, are of no consolation to the 19 people in the UK alone, who have lost their lives due to this vaccine.
Another way of looking at this is that whilst 78 blood clot cases have been found, the risk of clots if you have Covid is huge - 10% or more. So how many of these have been prevented by the AZ vaccine? Many more than 78.0 -
Humans are arrogant and generally overestimate their skills. Many of those U30s don't believe they will be in a RTA as they are so skillful at driving. They probably also believe that if the pilots are incapacitated on a plane it is best if they land the plane over a stranger who has been taking private flying lessons for 5 years. This is how people think hence the completely irational response to a minimal risk.First.Aspect said:
You are more likely to die on the road on the way there.DeVlaeminck said:I know a few u30s who have had a single AZ dose who aren't sure they are going to have the second.
About 1 in 40000 people die in rta's every year in the UK. The risk from the AZ vaccine seems to be about 1 in 1000000. Do these u30s leave the house at all?1 -
First.Aspect said:
You don't have to drive anywhere. That is a choice.joe2019 said:First.Aspect said:
You are more likely to die on the road on the way there.DeVlaeminck said:I know a few u30s who have had a single AZ dose who aren't sure they are going to have the second.
About 1 in 40000 people die in rta's every year in the UK. The risk from the AZ vaccine seems to be about 1 in 1000000. Do these u30s leave the house at all?
Of course that is true, but that's a calculated risk we all take going about our daily lives on most days. The AZ vaccine is a risk people don't have to take.
The figures, however remote, are of no consolation to the 19 people in the UK alone, who have lost their lives due to this vaccine.
Another way of looking at this is that whilst 78 blood clot cases have been found, the risk of clots if you have Covid is huge - 10% or more. So how many of these have been prevented by the AZ vaccine? Many more than 78.
Yes I agree, however, you were the one who mentioned RTA's.
And again, I agree with the rational on your second point, however, you don't ever choose to catch Covid, but you do choose to have an AZ jab.
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You've lost me. Is this one of those discussions where you say you disagree with me and then say more or less the same thing?joe2019 said:First.Aspect said:
You don't have to drive anywhere. That is a choice.joe2019 said:First.Aspect said:
You are more likely to die on the road on the way there.DeVlaeminck said:I know a few u30s who have had a single AZ dose who aren't sure they are going to have the second.
About 1 in 40000 people die in rta's every year in the UK. The risk from the AZ vaccine seems to be about 1 in 1000000. Do these u30s leave the house at all?
Of course that is true, but that's a calculated risk we all take going about our daily lives on most days. The AZ vaccine is a risk people don't have to take.
The figures, however remote, are of no consolation to the 19 people in the UK alone, who have lost their lives due to this vaccine.
Another way of looking at this is that whilst 78 blood clot cases have been found, the risk of clots if you have Covid is huge - 10% or more. So how many of these have been prevented by the AZ vaccine? Many more than 78.
Yes I agree, however, you were the one who mentioned RTA's.
And again, I agree with the rational on your second point, however, you don't ever choose to catch Covid, but you do choose to have an AZ jab.0 -
So choose to risk Covid or risk a blood clot. Your choice. Your odds.
You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk.
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Refusing a vaccine is choosing to accept a greater risk of catching covid and everything that may involve. Choosing to have the vaccine is choosing to minimise those chances. One carries significantly more risk than the other, do you really not get that?joe2019 said:First.Aspect said:
You don't have to drive anywhere. That is a choice.joe2019 said:First.Aspect said:
You are more likely to die on the road on the way there.DeVlaeminck said:I know a few u30s who have had a single AZ dose who aren't sure they are going to have the second.
About 1 in 40000 people die in rta's every year in the UK. The risk from the AZ vaccine seems to be about 1 in 1000000. Do these u30s leave the house at all?
Of course that is true, but that's a calculated risk we all take going about our daily lives on most days. The AZ vaccine is a risk people don't have to take.
The figures, however remote, are of no consolation to the 19 people in the UK alone, who have lost their lives due to this vaccine.
Another way of looking at this is that whilst 78 blood clot cases have been found, the risk of clots if you have Covid is huge - 10% or more. So how many of these have been prevented by the AZ vaccine? Many more than 78.
Yes I agree, however, you were the one who mentioned RTA's.
And again, I agree with the rational on your second point, however, you don't ever choose to catch Covid, but you do choose to have an AZ jab.
That's before you get into the fact that choosing to refuse a vaccine is choosing to increase the risk to other people.0 -
veronese68 said:
Refusing a vaccine is choosing to accept a greater risk of catching covid and everything that may involve. Choosing to have the vaccine is choosing to minimise those chances. One carries significantly more risk than the other, do you really not get that?joe2019 said:First.Aspect said:
You don't have to drive anywhere. That is a choice.joe2019 said:First.Aspect said:
You are more likely to die on the road on the way there.DeVlaeminck said:I know a few u30s who have had a single AZ dose who aren't sure they are going to have the second.
About 1 in 40000 people die in rta's every year in the UK. The risk from the AZ vaccine seems to be about 1 in 1000000. Do these u30s leave the house at all?
Of course that is true, but that's a calculated risk we all take going about our daily lives on most days. The AZ vaccine is a risk people don't have to take.
The figures, however remote, are of no consolation to the 19 people in the UK alone, who have lost their lives due to this vaccine.
Another way of looking at this is that whilst 78 blood clot cases have been found, the risk of clots if you have Covid is huge - 10% or more. So how many of these have been prevented by the AZ vaccine? Many more than 78.
Yes I agree, however, you were the one who mentioned RTA's.
And again, I agree with the rational on your second point, however, you don't ever choose to catch Covid, but you do choose to have an AZ jab.
That's before you get into the fact that choosing to refuse a vaccine is choosing to increase the risk to other people.
Yes, of course I get that, and that is why I have had the vaccine.0 -
You have evidence of this? If so you ought to send it to the regulator.joe2019 said:First.Aspect said:
You are more likely to die on the road on the way there.DeVlaeminck said:I know a few u30s who have had a single AZ dose who aren't sure they are going to have the second.
About 1 in 40000 people die in rta's every year in the UK. The risk from the AZ vaccine seems to be about 1 in 1000000. Do these u30s leave the house at all?
Of course that is true, but that's a calculated risk we all take going about our daily lives on most days. The AZ vaccine is a risk people don't have to take.
The figures, however remote, are of no consolation to the 19 people in the UK alone, who have lost their lives due to this vaccine.
Two things I haven't heard information on:
1. They say this is a "rare" type of blood clot but I haven't heard or read was the likelihood is of someone getting one if they haven't had the vaccine. That feels like an important piece of information.
2. The rate of people who die of blood clots after having Covid (it is regularly said that it is a side effect of the virus)
Will see what I get given this evening but not bothered either way.0 -
I agree and personally I am going to get my second AZ jab but I can see why an u30 might say if every other u30 is getting a different one I will too.Pross said:
You have evidence of this? If so you ought to send it to the regulator.joe2019 said:First.Aspect said:
You are more likely to die on the road on the way there.DeVlaeminck said:I know a few u30s who have had a single AZ dose who aren't sure they are going to have the second.
About 1 in 40000 people die in rta's every year in the UK. The risk from the AZ vaccine seems to be about 1 in 1000000. Do these u30s leave the house at all?
Of course that is true, but that's a calculated risk we all take going about our daily lives on most days. The AZ vaccine is a risk people don't have to take.
The figures, however remote, are of no consolation to the 19 people in the UK alone, who have lost their lives due to this vaccine.
Two things I haven't heard information on:
1. They say this is a "rare" type of blood clot but I haven't heard or read was the likelihood is of someone getting one if they haven't had the vaccine. That feels like an important piece of information.
2. The rate of people who die of blood clots after having Covid (it is regularly said that it is a side effect of the virus)
Will see what I get given this evening but not bothered either way.
I thought mixing and matching jabs could actually be beneficial anyway - or was that just what they told us when they thought supply issues would mean they had to mix and match?[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Surely those blood clot stats can't be right - have there really been millions of blood clot cases from Covid ?First.Aspect said:
You don't have to drive anywhere. That is a choice.joe2019 said:First.Aspect said:
You are more likely to die on the road on the way there.DeVlaeminck said:I know a few u30s who have had a single AZ dose who aren't sure they are going to have the second.
About 1 in 40000 people die in rta's every year in the UK. The risk from the AZ vaccine seems to be about 1 in 1000000. Do these u30s leave the house at all?
Of course that is true, but that's a calculated risk we all take going about our daily lives on most days. The AZ vaccine is a risk people don't have to take.
The figures, however remote, are of no consolation to the 19 people in the UK alone, who have lost their lives due to this vaccine.
Another way of looking at this is that whilst 78 blood clot cases have been found, the risk of clots if you have Covid is huge - 10% or more. So how many of these have been prevented by the AZ vaccine? Many more than 78.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
BBC article I read this morning said something like 7.8% of cases have shown evidence of small clots on the lungs.DeVlaeminck said:
Surely those blood clot stats can't be right - have there really been millions of blood clot cases from Covid ?First.Aspect said:
You don't have to drive anywhere. That is a choice.joe2019 said:First.Aspect said:
You are more likely to die on the road on the way there.DeVlaeminck said:I know a few u30s who have had a single AZ dose who aren't sure they are going to have the second.
About 1 in 40000 people die in rta's every year in the UK. The risk from the AZ vaccine seems to be about 1 in 1000000. Do these u30s leave the house at all?
Of course that is true, but that's a calculated risk we all take going about our daily lives on most days. The AZ vaccine is a risk people don't have to take.
The figures, however remote, are of no consolation to the 19 people in the UK alone, who have lost their lives due to this vaccine.
Another way of looking at this is that whilst 78 blood clot cases have been found, the risk of clots if you have Covid is huge - 10% or more. So how many of these have been prevented by the AZ vaccine? Many more than 78.0 -
Can’t see many 31 year olds rushing forwards.DeVlaeminck said:
I agree and personally I am going to get my second AZ jab but I can see why an u30 might say if every other u30 is getting a different one I will too.Pross said:
You have evidence of this? If so you ought to send it to the regulator.joe2019 said:First.Aspect said:
You are more likely to die on the road on the way there.DeVlaeminck said:I know a few u30s who have had a single AZ dose who aren't sure they are going to have the second.
About 1 in 40000 people die in rta's every year in the UK. The risk from the AZ vaccine seems to be about 1 in 1000000. Do these u30s leave the house at all?
Of course that is true, but that's a calculated risk we all take going about our daily lives on most days. The AZ vaccine is a risk people don't have to take.
The figures, however remote, are of no consolation to the 19 people in the UK alone, who have lost their lives due to this vaccine.
Two things I haven't heard information on:
1. They say this is a "rare" type of blood clot but I haven't heard or read was the likelihood is of someone getting one if they haven't had the vaccine. That feels like an important piece of information.
2. The rate of people who die of blood clots after having Covid (it is regularly said that it is a side effect of the virus)
Will see what I get given this evening but not bothered either way.
I thought mixing and matching jabs could actually be beneficial anyway - or was that just what they told us when they thought supply issues would mean they had to mix and match?
Barring disasters I can’t see it being used for any more first jabs0 -
I guess with it being a not for profit vaccine there would be no major issue if they eventually discontinue it with all the others coming on stream. I can't decide whether stopping it would help or hinder confidence in the vaccines generally - would it help show that they are taking even very low risks seriously or be seen as a sign that you can't trust the testing process?0
