Will you have the Covid-19 vaccine?
Comments
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pblakeney said:
Look at the figures without emotion. The conclusion is obvious.joe2019 said:veronese68 said:
Of course they do, do you know what populism is?joe2019 said:veronese68 said:
Newspapers report on a non-story that frightens some of the population, politicians play to this saying they are protecting their citizens. They are playing politics with people's health and you are falling for it.joe2019 said:elbowloh said:
There isn't a problem with the AZ vaccine. I can only conclude that there is a political decision being made in spite of protestations to the contrary.joe2019 said:elbowloh said:
Well, it's clearly not based on the scientific evidence as there is a higher number of cases of thrombosis per capita in people who haven't had the vaccine. If anything, that implies having the vaccine reduces your risk of thrombosis (slightly facetious, but coincidentally true).joe2019 said:Ireland, Holland, Germany, France and Italy suspend AZ vaccine.
"The background to this decision follows new reports of cases of cerebral vein thrombosis connected with an AstraZeneca vaccination. In light of these newly reported cases, the Paul Ehrlich Institute today re-evaluated the situation and recommended a suspension of vaccinations and further analysis." Germany's Health Minister Jens Spahn said.
He said the decision was "not political". "All of us are very aware of the consequences of this decision, and we did not take this decision lightly,"
That's what i thought too. So why the problem with AZ, if the same is true, or statistically worse, in the population vaccinated with the other vaccines?
How can you be certain of that?
Political decision being made by so many countries?
I'm in good company then... better safe than sorry and all that.
Do you really believe that multiple governments act on newspaper reports?
Unlike this crèche for the middle aged, some are obviously unconvinced.
The vaccine is safe. Those blocking it are playing politics.
That would seem to be the obvious conclusion, playing politics with people's lives.0 -
Isn't that what politico sockpuppets and their string pulling media masters do all the time?ballysmate said:...playing politics with people's lives.
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Costing people's lives then.orraloon said:
Isn't that what politico sockpuppets and their string pulling media masters do all the time?ballysmate said:...playing politics with people's lives.
It's one thing to cost lives through mistakes or even incompetence but to do so deliberately is a different level.0 -
So, given the list of countries pulling the vaccine, who do you reckon are the string pulling masters?orraloon said:
Isn't that what politico sockpuppets and their string pulling media masters do all the time?ballysmate said:...playing politics with people's lives.
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I'm sure Vlad's lads will be pushing the soshul meejah concerns, debates, contra arguments agendas, as ever. They have lots of experience and achievements - Trump, Brexit to mention but 2. Russia's 'Sputnik' or whatever it's called to be lauded as the safe one next?
Darn, my foil helmet cover has slipped 😉
Right, I'm off to do some real world stuff, AZ vaccine immunised of course.0 -
orraloon said:
I'm sure Vlad's lads will be pushing the soshul meejah concerns, debates, contra arguments agendas, as ever. They have lots of experience and achievements - Trump, Brexit to mention but 2. Russia's 'Sputnik' or whatever it's called to be lauded as the safe one next?
Darn, my foil helmet cover has slipped 😉
Right, I'm off to do some real world stuff, AZ vaccine immunised of course.
Worth reading the comments under this Russia Today report: https://www.rt.com/news/518191-spain-halts-astrazeneca-vaccines/
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I don't really get it. Macron for example is not going to win his election on the back of blaming AZ for a dodgy vaccine when his population can look across the channel and see that nothing is wrong. Being slow to roll our vaccines for covid is a potential disaster for the EU should a new variant cause them a problem. They really are winging it at the moment and u
nsurprisingly they have some fellow EU followers.1 -
I do find the knee jerk and aggressive defence of the AZ vaccine impossible to understand.ballysmate said:
So, given the list of countries pulling the vaccine, who do you reckon are the string pulling masters?orraloon said:
Isn't that what politico sockpuppets and their string pulling media masters do all the time?ballysmate said:...playing politics with people's lives.
Rather than dismissing it as a conspiracy why not be curious as to how they followed the science and came to those conclusions?
I had the AZ on Sunday as I considered the risk to be lower than getting Covid2 -
Currently around 2-3 per million, (cases mind, not deaths) as opposed to 1,843 per million who have died from in this Country. (worldwide 343 per million)surrey_commuter said:
I do find the knee jerk and aggressive defence of the AZ vaccine impossible to understand.ballysmate said:
So, given the list of countries pulling the vaccine, who do you reckon are the string pulling masters?orraloon said:
Isn't that what politico sockpuppets and their string pulling media masters do all the time?ballysmate said:...playing politics with people's lives.
Rather than dismissing it as a conspiracy why not be curious as to how they followed the science and came to those conclusions?
I had the AZ on Sunday as I considered the risk to be lower than getting Covid
So, I am struggling with the logic, too.
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
If you look back, I agreed with Blakey's post that the evidence supports the vaccine being safe and countries were playing politics.surrey_commuter said:
I do find the knee jerk and aggressive defence of the AZ vaccine impossible to understand.ballysmate said:
So, given the list of countries pulling the vaccine, who do you reckon are the string pulling masters?orraloon said:
Isn't that what politico sockpuppets and their string pulling media masters do all the time?ballysmate said:...playing politics with people's lives.
Rather than dismissing it as a conspiracy why not be curious as to how they followed the science and came to those conclusions?
I had the AZ on Sunday as I considered the risk to be lower than getting Covid
Loon suggested that these countries were having their strings pulled and I asked by whom.
How is that a knee jerk or aggressive defence of anything?2 -
Because all it does is make people fearful of having any vaccine. Not it the UK thankfully.surrey_commuter said:
I do find the knee jerk and aggressive defence of the AZ vaccine impossible to understand.ballysmate said:
So, given the list of countries pulling the vaccine, who do you reckon are the string pulling masters?orraloon said:
Isn't that what politico sockpuppets and their string pulling media masters do all the time?ballysmate said:...playing politics with people's lives.
Rather than dismissing it as a conspiracy why not be curious as to how they followed the science and came to those conclusions?
I had the AZ on Sunday as I considered the risk to be lower than getting Covid0 -
They aren't following any science; that is the point. The science all points to there not being an issue. Other governments are equally capable of irrational behaviour.surrey_commuter said:
I do find the knee jerk and aggressive defence of the AZ vaccine impossible to understand.ballysmate said:
So, given the list of countries pulling the vaccine, who do you reckon are the string pulling masters?orraloon said:
Isn't that what politico sockpuppets and their string pulling media masters do all the time?ballysmate said:...playing politics with people's lives.
Rather than dismissing it as a conspiracy why not be curious as to how they followed the science and came to those conclusions?
I had the AZ on Sunday as I considered the risk to be lower than getting Covid1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
OK, I will atempt to reply to all of the replies
what do they think they gain politically from casting doubt upon the safety of one vaccine?
They must have a sensible explanation for their decisions and it is now a good number of historically sensible countries.
A quick Google does not throw up an answer so does anybody know how many AZ doses Israel has administered?0 -
Bizarrely I thought I was agreeing with you so the last line of your reply was not directed at you.ballysmate said:
If you look back, I agreed with Blakey's post that the evidence supports the vaccine being safe and countries were playing politics.surrey_commuter said:
I do find the knee jerk and aggressive defence of the AZ vaccine impossible to understand.ballysmate said:
So, given the list of countries pulling the vaccine, who do you reckon are the string pulling masters?orraloon said:
Isn't that what politico sockpuppets and their string pulling media masters do all the time?ballysmate said:...playing politics with people's lives.
Rather than dismissing it as a conspiracy why not be curious as to how they followed the science and came to those conclusions?
I had the AZ on Sunday as I considered the risk to be lower than getting Covid
Loon suggested that these countries were having their strings pulled and I asked by whom.
How is that a knee jerk or aggressive defence of anything?
I am not sure we have ever agreed on anything so I am kind of relieved that I had misinterpreted your post and all is well in the world1 -
Only they will know their motives and what they hope to gain by suspending the vaccine, but looking at the figures available, it doesn't appear to be a gain in health benefit.
You yourself considered the options and decided that the vaccine was a benefit.
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I think the politicians are somewhat between a rock and a hard place.
It seems pretty clear that based on the figures available, there is no good link between the vaccine and clotting.
Otoh, in the haste to prove things are safe they must be seen to be doing something.
As a politician if you order carrying on with vaccination and one of the vaccinated pops their clogs due to a blood clot, that'll be seen as blood on your hands. Whereas if you pause the vaccination and people carry on dying of covid.... Well at least you didn't do anything dangerous. 🙄0 -
It's not inconceivable that the EU members suspending its use are having a pop at AZ for not delivering as hoped. But it ought to be a moot point, as the EU members all have large stocks sitting in fridges unused.0
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Bite, nose, face.briantrumpet said:It's not inconceivable that the EU members suspending its use are having a pop at AZ for not delivering as hoped. But it ought to be a moot point, as the EU members all have large stocks sitting in fridges unused.
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surrey_commuter said:
OK, I will atempt to reply to all of the replies
what do they think they gain politically from casting doubt upon the safety of one vaccine?
They must have a sensible explanation for their decisions and it is now a good number of historically sensible countries.
A quick Google does not throw up an answer so does anybody know how many AZ doses Israel has administered?
The EU nations are having AZ supply issues through the EU's own failings, no? Is it not handy to be able to say "well the AZ vaccine isn't safe anyway"?
France, Netherlands and Germany are the key, large nations suspending the vaccine. France? Come on. Netherlands - someone correctly pointed out in this thread or the other that they're generally suspicious of medicine anyway. Germany - hugely risk averse. Hugely!
Not sure on Israel, but multiplying the population by 0.9-0.99 should give a good answer. They're almost done as far as I know.
Ben
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Ben6899 said:surrey_commuter said:
OK, I will atempt to reply to all of the replies
what do they think they gain politically from casting doubt upon the safety of one vaccine?
They must have a sensible explanation for their decisions and it is now a good number of historically sensible countries.
A quick Google does not throw up an answer so does anybody know how many AZ doses Israel has administered?
The EU nations are having AZ supply issues through the EU's own failings, no? Is it not handy to be able to say "well the AZ vaccine isn't safe anyway"?
France, Netherlands and Germany are the key, large nations suspending the vaccine. France? Come on. Netherlands - someone correctly pointed out in this thread or the other that they're generally suspicious of medicine anyway. Germany - hugely risk averse. Hugely!
...and the Italians are cowards, and the Spanish are from Barcelona.
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joe2019 said:Ben6899 said:surrey_commuter said:
OK, I will atempt to reply to all of the replies
what do they think they gain politically from casting doubt upon the safety of one vaccine?
They must have a sensible explanation for their decisions and it is now a good number of historically sensible countries.
A quick Google does not throw up an answer so does anybody know how many AZ doses Israel has administered?
The EU nations are having AZ supply issues through the EU's own failings, no? Is it not handy to be able to say "well the AZ vaccine isn't safe anyway"?
France, Netherlands and Germany are the key, large nations suspending the vaccine. France? Come on. Netherlands - someone correctly pointed out in this thread or the other that they're generally suspicious of medicine anyway. Germany - hugely risk averse. Hugely!
...and the Italians are cowards, and the Spanish are from Barcelona.
You're obviously implying I'm attributing unfair stereotypes, so let me address.
France - everything that happens there, at the minute, is skewed by Macron worrying about elections.
Netherlands - backed up statistically and anecdotally.
Germany - what effect do you think the periods 1914-1918 and 1939-1945 had on Germany as a nation? Also, before all this kicked off in February last year, I spend a third of my time over there. Trust me; they're risk averse.Ben
Bikes: Donhou DSS4 Custom | Condor Italia RC | Gios Megalite | Dolan Preffisio | Giant Bowery '76
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ben_h_ppcc/
Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/143173475@N05/0 -
I just can not get my head around the idea of a Govt casting doubt upon the safety of a vaccine (and by extension all vaccines) and condemning tens of thousands of people to death and further damaging their economies to get back at a drug company who are selling their product at costbriantrumpet said:It's not inconceivable that the EU members suspending its use are having a pop at AZ for not delivering as hoped. But it ought to be a moot point, as the EU members all have large stocks sitting in fridges unused.
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Don't mention the war!Ben6899 said:joe2019 said:Ben6899 said:surrey_commuter said:OK, I will atempt to reply to all of the replies
what do they think they gain politically from casting doubt upon the safety of one vaccine?
They must have a sensible explanation for their decisions and it is now a good number of historically sensible countries.
A quick Google does not throw up an answer so does anybody know how many AZ doses Israel has administered?
The EU nations are having AZ supply issues through the EU's own failings, no? Is it not handy to be able to say "well the AZ vaccine isn't safe anyway"?
France, Netherlands and Germany are the key, large nations suspending the vaccine. France? Come on. Netherlands - someone correctly pointed out in this thread or the other that they're generally suspicious of medicine anyway. Germany - hugely risk averse. Hugely!
...and the Italians are cowards, and the Spanish are from Barcelona.
You're obviously implying I'm attributing unfair stereotypes, so let me address.
France - everything that happens there, at the minute, is skewed by Macron worrying about elections.
Netherlands - backed up statistically and anecdotally.
Germany - what effect do you think the periods 1914-1918 and 1939-1945 had on Germany as a nation? Also, before all this kicked off in February last year, I spend a third of my time over there. Trust me; they're risk averse.1 -
surrey_commuter said:
I just can not get my head around the idea of a Govt casting doubt upon the safety of a vaccine (and by extension all vaccines) and condemning tens of thousands of people to death and further damaging their economies to get back at a drug company who are selling their product at costbriantrumpet said:It's not inconceivable that the EU members suspending its use are having a pop at AZ for not delivering as hoped. But it ought to be a moot point, as the EU members all have large stocks sitting in fridges unused.
Never underestimate the power of a group of politicians who feel their pride has been insulted. Despite all the data, France is still making decisions now that will condemn extra thousands to death, and that's just collateral damage for Macron's election chances, not national pride.1 -
What does it matter? There have been 17 million doses administered so far.surrey_commuter said:OK, I will atempt to reply to all of the replies
what do they think they gain politically from casting doubt upon the safety of one vaccine?
They must have a sensible explanation for their decisions and it is now a good number of historically sensible countries.
A quick Google does not throw up an answer so does anybody know how many AZ doses Israel has administered?
Trial data showed "adverse reactions" reported in more cases of the placebo. current real world data shows fewer blood clots than would be expected within the population as a whole. Numbers are also similar to Pfizer, which is n't making the news at all.
Draw your own conclusions. It is misguided politics, because being "safe" is being judged to be best politically. So is safety in numbers, hence the cascade effect.
I will eat my own faeces if the WHO or EMA analyse the anecdotal information on 37 out of 17 million doses and say anything other than there is no causal link beyond what one would expect from sticking a small metal rod in your arm.0 -
Macron described it as "quasi-effective" at one point (which they have rowed back on tbf). Even though it seems to be as good as many other vaccines for other illnesses (the mRNA ones do seem to be particularly effective though).Ben6899 said:surrey_commuter said:OK, I will atempt to reply to all of the replies
what do they think they gain politically from casting doubt upon the safety of one vaccine?
They must have a sensible explanation for their decisions and it is now a good number of historically sensible countries.
A quick Google does not throw up an answer so does anybody know how many AZ doses Israel has administered?
The EU nations are having AZ supply issues through the EU's own failings, no? Is it not handy to be able to say "well the AZ vaccine isn't safe anyway"?
France, Netherlands and Germany are the key, large nations suspending the vaccine. France? Come on. Netherlands - someone correctly pointed out in this thread or the other that they're generally suspicious of medicine anyway. Germany - hugely risk averse. Hugely!
Not sure on Israel, but multiplying the population by 0.9-0.99 should give a good answer. They're almost done as far as I know.0 -
I now need to get my head around the reason being that politicians will happily kill people and wreck their economy to help them look good.
finding lists of countried that have stopped using it is easy but does anybody know who is using it?
Does anybody know if Israel have been using it?0 -
Israel used Pfizer/BioNTech in large numbers I think.
Hence the scare story at the start of this thread saying that there would be no one left in Israel by the summer.0 -
B. Johnson, March 2020.surrey_commuter said:I now need to get my head around the reason being that politicians will happily kill people and wreck their economy to help them look good.
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Isn't the AZ vaccine the most transportable/easiest to store? I thought this would mean it would be the most effective in reducing a GLOBAL pandemic where storage and transportation are key.
The actions of some of these countries is totally baffling when you consider the global requirements. They are behaving like a bunch of anti-vaxxers.0
