The end of rim brake is upon us

de_sisti

alwaystimetotorque said:

rwoofer said:

@alwaystimetotorque That's what I've ordered! Was torn between yellow and black, but decided for black in the end, but means 3 month extra wait. Would be good to see a larger pic to see how the yellow looks under natural light. Maybe I could be swayed back to yellow again.

Does this help? I think that the yellow looks much better in real life than on a photograph. It's quite difficult to capture how nice it actually is.

Nice to see someone else who doesn't crimp their cables too short.

DeVlaeminck

Presumably they aren't leaving the cable like that?

airwise

Discs? On the road? What utter marketing BS

alwaystimetotorque

Nice to see someone else who doesn't crimp their cables too short.

Wooooah - it's not even crimped. Whey spend money on cutters, crimps and crimper when you simply make a nice loop?

neeb

Always useful to have a garroting wire handy for when road rage gets out of hand, or you have a mechanical 60 miles from civilisation and need to catch rabbits..

MattFalle

neeb said:

Always useful to have a garroting wire handy for when road rage gets out of hand, or you have a mechanical 60 miles from civilisation and need to catch rabbits..

well, unless you have something to cut the cable with all you're going to be doing is swinging a bike around by a front mech cable so its kinda inconvenient.

johngti

MattFalle said:

neeb said:

Always useful to have a garroting wire handy for when road rage gets out of hand, or you have a mechanical 60 miles from civilisation and need to catch rabbits..

well, unless you have something to cut the cable with all you're going to be doing is swinging a bike around by a front mech cable so its kinda inconvenient.

You could always ask them to lie down next to the bike for you, just to avoid that scenario

MattFalle

johngti said:

MattFalle said:

neeb said:

Always useful to have a garroting wire handy for when road rage gets out of hand, or you have a mechanical 60 miles from civilisation and need to catch rabbits..

well, unless you have something to cut the cable with all you're going to be doing is swinging a bike around by a front mech cable so its kinda inconvenient.

You could always ask them to lie down next to the bike for you, just to avoid that scenario

good point.

or just club thefuckout of them with the bike as a whole unit.

bit like Basil and branch but just using a yellow bicycle.

tonyf34

orraloon said:

First.Aspect said:

...and in a lot of ways discs are worse.

Such as? 🤔

Like discs and other 'advancements' on motors, risk compensation occurs, people brake later thinking that they can, they ride faster thinking the brakes will intervene, they have less thinking time to then make decisions for the unexpected or a misjudgement.
It's a small change but enough to change outcomes, because it's not the brakes but the tyres that are the ultimate defining factor regards the slowing/coming to a stop.
There are so many things that are supposedly improving safety but don't, supposed improvements in braking is one of them, are you old enough to have used chrome steel rims with the leather strip pads?
I had one incident ever on this brake type in 4 years of riding them as a teen, a wet day coming back from college in 1987, I'd got over the hump of the bridge over the river, going a bit too quickly wanting to make the turn before the lights changed. It was a big box junction, maybe a bit of oil and diesel, I slid out.
Am I safer on higher end rim brakes, nope, will I be safer on disc brakes, no, in fact worse. When you start to brake so late (because you think you can due to the advancement) you run out of processing time for the situation, and that leads to crashes.
You only need look at how things like helmets had a huge detriment not just in the pro ranks but on every single street, trail and track across the world. Seatbelts, hi-vis, hard hats, wider tyres, bigger brake units, brighter lights and so much more. The rise in injuries/incidents post RIDDOR even taking into account employment levels, due to the huge push for PPE is ignored everywhere, stuff like disc brakes are no different in making those that use their 'improvement' or perceived safer environment to make worse decisions.

ibr17xvii

tonyf34 said:

orraloon said:

First.Aspect said:

...and in a lot of ways discs are worse.

Such as? 🤔

Like discs and other 'advancements' on motors, risk compensation occurs, people brake later thinking that they can, they ride faster thinking the brakes will intervene, they have less thinking time to then make decisions for the unexpected or a misjudgement.
It's a small change but enough to change outcomes, because it's not the brakes but the tyres that are the ultimate defining factor regards the slowing/coming to a stop.
There are so many things that are supposedly improving safety but don't, supposed improvements in braking is one of them, are you old enough to have used chrome steel rims with the leather strip pads?
I had one incident ever on this brake type in 4 years of riding them as a teen, a wet day coming back from college in 1987, I'd got over the hump of the bridge over the river, going a bit too quickly wanting to make the turn before the lights changed. It was a big box junction, maybe a bit of oil and diesel, I slid out.
Am I safer on higher end rim brakes, nope, will I be safer on disc brakes, no, in fact worse. When you start to brake so late (because you think you can due to the advancement) you run out of processing time for the situation, and that leads to crashes.
You only need look at how things like helmets had a huge detriment not just in the pro ranks but on every single street, trail and track across the world. Seatbelts, hi-vis, hard hats, wider tyres, bigger brake units, brighter lights and so much more. The rise in injuries/incidents post RIDDOR even taking into account employment levels, due to the huge push for PPE is ignored everywhere, stuff like disc brakes are no different in making those that use their 'improvement' or perceived safer environment to make worse decisions.

What a load of absolute nonsense.

ugo.santalucia

it certainly is bleak...

My Dolan is now 4 years old and maybe there are another 2 years in it... I ride it a lot, it's done about 40K Km, maybe it's got more in it, but it's time to start thinking about a replacement frame in the not so distant future...

There is very little... Ribble have a carbon frameset for rim brakes, not the lightest, not the prettiest... not much else around

pblakeney

I have to ask, what has worn out on the Dolan? 🤔

ugo.santalucia

pblakeney said:

I have to ask, what has worn out on the Dolan? 🤔

Bits and pieces slowly decaying, like ageing teeth... there is a bridge that joins the chainstays, drilled to take a bolt to fix the rear guard, that is now unusable, after a bolt seized in and had to Dremel it both sides. The DS chainstay has some carbon exposed, which I covered with some electrician tape. The aluminium dropouts are beginning to flake off that white oxide stuff... the downtube cable guide very nearly got the adjuster bolt seized in, I managed to unseize it, just... it was a close call that one. The bottom cup of the integrated headset needs regular scrubbing with steel wool to keep the rust under control, the bearing got jammed in it a couple of times and had to hammer it off using a screwdriver, which is not a nice thin to do to a frame.
Nothing major, but signs of decay... every winter there is more work to do to keep it roadworthy

First.Aspect

Cervelo?

Ugo's situation shows that we are being forced to discs, unless you want to go to very specialist manufacturers. I suspect it will bottom out and there will always be "purist" options available, but it is annoying.

pblakeney

Thanks Ugo. Just proves buy right, buy once. 😉

MattFalle

doesn't sound anything major tbh - spring stripdown, respray/powdercoat, re build.

long weekend's tinkering.

d00d4h

First.Aspect said:

Cervelo?

I think they've now gone all disc.
There isn't a rim brake option on their website.

darkhairedlord

ugo.santalucia said:

pblakeney said:

I have to ask, what has worn out on the Dolan? 🤔

Bits and pieces slowly decaying, like ageing teeth... there is a bridge that joins the chainstays, drilled to take a bolt to fix the rear guard, that is now unusable, after a bolt seized in and had to Dremel it both sides. The DS chainstay has some carbon exposed, which I covered with some electrician tape. The aluminium dropouts are beginning to flake off that white oxide stuff... the downtube cable guide very nearly got the adjuster bolt seized in, I managed to unseize it, just... it was a close call that one. The bottom cup of the integrated headset needs regular scrubbing with steel wool to keep the rust under control, the bearing got jammed in it a couple of times and had to hammer it off using a screwdriver, which is not a nice thin to do to a frame.
Nothing major, but signs of decay... every winter there is more work to do to keep it roadworthy

what are these "guards" you speak of? I thought you were an anti-guard stalwart?
Along the lines of "you are going to get wet anyway so why bother"......
I feel for you with the pain of a decaying everyday CF bike.

MattFalle

First.Aspect said:

Cervelo?

unless you can get one seriously discounted well over priced. Not worth the money.

Canyon?

dangardner27

Argon 18 Gallium Pro - looks stunning too.

pblakeney

I have to say that my Fratello has been through 10 winters and shows no signs of ageing. Still available for rim brakes, but I'll get discs for winter when it dies.
https://www.condorcycles.com/collections/audax-commute-touring-bikes/products/condor-fratello-frameset

redvision

As I've said before, I'm still keeping my fingers crossed that there will be a flip flop and rim brake frames will become popular amongst manufacturers again - just like threaded bottom brackets are making a return.

In the meantime, whilst most seem to only supply disc brake options, there are a few who continue to produce rim brake frames: high budget look at the Pinarello Dogma, cheaper option (but brilliant frames) look at bowman
https://bowman-cycles.com/products/palace-3c

ibr17xvii

ugo.santalucia said:

pblakeney said:

I have to ask, what has worn out on the Dolan? 🤔

Bits and pieces slowly decaying, like ageing teeth... there is a bridge that joins the chainstays, drilled to take a bolt to fix the rear guard, that is now unusable, after a bolt seized in and had to Dremel it both sides. The DS chainstay has some carbon exposed, which I covered with some electrician tape. The aluminium dropouts are beginning to flake off that white oxide stuff... the downtube cable guide very nearly got the adjuster bolt seized in, I managed to unseize it, just... it was a close call that one. The bottom cup of the integrated headset needs regular scrubbing with steel wool to keep the rust under control, the bearing got jammed in it a couple of times and had to hammer it off using a screwdriver, which is not a nice thin to do to a frame.
Nothing major, but signs of decay... every winter there is more work to do to keep it roadworthy

Replace with a new Dolan frame?

Other than that for winter use Canyon, Ribble or there was cheapo Specialized bike on the bargains thread that would make a good winter hack with a few tweaks.

The options are dwindling though TBH.

First.Aspect

d00d4h said:

First.Aspect said:

Cervelo?

I think they've now gone all disc.
There isn't a rim brake option on their website.

Hadn't realised. You can still find rim brakes R3's on Sigma sports website.

Ugo I think you are getting to needing a custom manufacturer to get something decent.

I guess the next nail in the coffin will be the end of non hydro groupsets.

MattFalle

Its when its difficult to get decent quality mechanical bits because its all gone electronic and all we're left with is heavy crppya winter and training stuff - Claris, Sora, Ultegra - is when its going to be ridiculous.

ugo.santalucia

ibr17xvii said:

Replace with a new Dolan frame?

Don't think they sell frames anymore... when it comes to that time, I'll probably head to Ebay or Shpock and source some second hand

bmxboy10

Buy a Caad 13 rim frameset. I’ll be selling my mint rim brake supersix soon I think😬.

ugo.santalucia

First.Aspect

Fantastic bike.

If that doesn't work eBay is your friend here.

super_davo

I think the problem Ugo has is that the Dolan Dual was always a bit niche as a carbon rim brake frameset that takes mudguards. There is still plenty of choice if you don't want guards (indeed Dolan still make the Etape). If you want guards but are happy to get a full bike there is probably as much choice as there ever was. A Boardman 8.9c at £1000 with 105 can take guards and frame is at least as good as the Dual. There just isn't much you can get as a frameset that takes guards - but there never was... I can really only think of the Ribble Endurance SL.

This isn't a problem for me because for a winter bike with guards I want disks, for a nice light summer bike without then I want rim brakes. And the fact that they aren't "fashionable" means there are bargains to be had, particularly second hand.