The end of rim brake is upon us

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Comments

  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 6,936
    MattFalle said:

    neeb said:

    Maybe we'll see a big push for hydraulic rim brakes in a few years time. It would be new (well, new-mainstream), it could be marketed as the best of both worlds (or at least the best compromise). It could be relatively light and with the integrated cables aesthetic. Existing hydraulic groupsets might work as they are without needing to be modified (they'd just need new calipers). Existing wheels would be compatible but new ones could be marketed as better optimised. I might buy into that.

    intergrated/internal cables areshit.

    there is no argument against it.
    I really don't get that external cables are better in any way, other than when needing to replace them, which will be more frequently than internal cables due to being exposed to the crud and crap picked up from the roads causing them to wear out quicker. And then there are the asthetics of cleaner lines.
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    form over function eh....

    easier to change

    easier to monitor wear

    will gank up the same into mechs and brakes - this is why you change them.

    better routings mean better changes, etc.

    bigger winner all round.
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 6,936
    1 Yes
    2 Yes
    3 Not true
    4 Not true

    But I doubt we'll ever agree on 3 & 4.

    Out of interest, have you ever ridden a disc road bike for any length of time?

    I have both disc and rim and do see advantages and disadvantages to both.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 14,647
    I am a fan of form over function.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,805
    Dorset_Boy said:

    MattFalle said:

    neeb said:

    Maybe we'll see a big push for hydraulic rim brakes in a few years time. It would be new (well, new-mainstream), it could be marketed as the best of both worlds (or at least the best compromise). It could be relatively light and with the integrated cables aesthetic. Existing hydraulic groupsets might work as they are without needing to be modified (they'd just need new calipers). Existing wheels would be compatible but new ones could be marketed as better optimised. I might buy into that.

    intergrated/internal cables areshit.

    there is no argument against it.
    I really don't get that external cables are better in any way, other than when needing to replace them, which will be more frequently than internal cables due to being exposed to the crud and censored picked up from the roads causing them to wear out quicker. And then there are the asthetics of cleaner lines.
    I've never had a cable break or wear in the middle. It is always at the extreme end so the routing is irrelevant regarding wear.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    pblakeney said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    MattFalle said:

    neeb said:

    Maybe we'll see a big push for hydraulic rim brakes in a few years time. It would be new (well, new-mainstream), it could be marketed as the best of both worlds (or at least the best compromise). It could be relatively light and with the integrated cables aesthetic. Existing hydraulic groupsets might work as they are without needing to be modified (they'd just need new calipers). Existing wheels would be compatible but new ones could be marketed as better optimised. I might buy into that.

    intergrated/internal cables areshit.

    there is no argument against it.
    I really don't get that external cables are better in any way, other than when needing to replace them, which will be more frequently than internal cables due to being exposed to the crud and censored picked up from the roads causing them to wear out quicker. And then there are the asthetics of cleaner lines.
    I've never had a cable break or wear in the middle. It is always at the extreme end so the routing is irrelevant regarding wear.
    I've only had one cable break, and that was in the shifter. However, the video I posted earlier in this thread details how internal cable routing has led to the current disc brake push from manufacturers as the internal routing often involves bends which causes cables to get twisted/ frayed - which isn't a problem for hydraulic systems.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,805
    redvision said:

    pblakeney said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    MattFalle said:

    neeb said:

    Maybe we'll see a big push for hydraulic rim brakes in a few years time. It would be new (well, new-mainstream), it could be marketed as the best of both worlds (or at least the best compromise). It could be relatively light and with the integrated cables aesthetic. Existing hydraulic groupsets might work as they are without needing to be modified (they'd just need new calipers). Existing wheels would be compatible but new ones could be marketed as better optimised. I might buy into that.

    intergrated/internal cables areshit.

    there is no argument against it.
    I really don't get that external cables are better in any way, other than when needing to replace them, which will be more frequently than internal cables due to being exposed to the crud and censored picked up from the roads causing them to wear out quicker. And then there are the asthetics of cleaner lines.
    I've never had a cable break or wear in the middle. It is always at the extreme end so the routing is irrelevant regarding wear.
    I've only had one cable break, and that was in the shifter. However, the video I posted earlier in this thread details how internal cable routing has led to the current disc brake push from manufacturers as the internal routing often involves bends which causes cables to get twisted/ frayed - which isn't a problem for hydraulic systems.
    I've cleverly avoided that by not having internal routing. Win, win. 😉
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • womack
    womack Posts: 566
    I know nothing about bike disc components so are they expensive?

    I only ask as seeing many a person when I was in the motor trade with a six / seven year old car that still looked the part but the price of a new cat / dpf was often more than the value of the car.

    For example I have just purchased 2x 57mm caliper brakes for my project for less than £30. Could I replace everything on a disc set up for that?

    Just thinking about when the bikes come to second owners and need repairing.
  • Harry182
    Harry182 Posts: 1,169
    Dorset_Boy said:

    I have both disc and rim and do see advantages and disadvantages to both.


    +1
  • dj58
    dj58 Posts: 2,217
    My experience with externally under BB routed shifter cables on the MTB is that they eventually fail at the derailleur clamping point. I've had to relpace the FD O.E. shifter cable on my 2013 externally under BB routed road bike recently, because it failed at the clamping point, not inside the STI, which can be the case with Shimano shifters.
  • MattFalle
    MattFalle Posts: 11,644
    Harry182 said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    I have both disc and rim and do see advantages and disadvantages to both.


    +1
    bloke who the Tour in the summer didn't have many rim brake disadvantages compared to the disc dudes
    .
    The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
  • danx
    danx Posts: 27
    womack said:



    For example I have just purchased 2x 57mm caliper brakes for my project for less than £30. Could I replace everything on a disc set up for that?

    'everything' being what? Levers, cables, calipers, pads and braking surface (rims/rotors)? I doubt you did that for £30!

    If it's just the calipers then 2 x brand new Shimano BRM 375 disc calipers are about £14 more than you paid, other brands may be cheaper (you don't say what brand/model you bought so it's hard to compare)

  • paulbnix
    paulbnix Posts: 631
    I like my rim braked Planet X Maratona - actually I managed to buy another Maratona frame - it was the last at a cut price - so I’m setup for a while now.

    But I also have a disc braked Ti bike from Px.that is very good in the wet and salty winter. There are more noise and contamination issues with discs and it’s a price I’m willing to pay in the crappy weather.
  • rwoofer
    rwoofer Posts: 222
    To report back I've just ordered a Bowman Palace 3C in black. It's bit aggressive geo-wise for me, but within 1mm stack and reach of my SS Evo, which is also on the limit, but works. For some reason all xl or xxl sizes seem to have very aggressive geo even if not a race bike. On my SS with full set of spacers I've a 11cm saddle to handlebar drop, most other brands are worse.

    By all accounts the Palace is a fantastic frame irrespective of price (given the similar geo to my SS, I don't think I need to test ride one), only downside is delivery in Sept. Plan will be to build with existing full Ultegra mech groupset, Mavic Comete SL UST wheels, carbon handlebar/seatpost and fabric carbon railed seat. Hope the all up weight for 60cm frame will come in under 7.5kgs
  • de_sisti
    de_sisti Posts: 1,283
    ugo.santalucia said:

    I am quite relieved I don't own any of such things...

    Still happily running rim brakes, threaded BB, clinchers and even 10 speed! For as long as spares supply hold, I won't be "upgrading"...

    Although that fear has led to stocking on spare parts

    As above, but nine speed. :)
  • womack
    womack Posts: 566
    de_sisti said:

    ugo.santalucia said:

    I am quite relieved I don't own any of such things...

    Still happily running rim brakes, threaded BB, clinchers and even 10 speed! For as long as spares supply hold, I won't be "upgrading"...

    Although that fear has led to stocking on spare parts

    As above, but nine speed. :)
    You lot are positively modern, I'm still enjoying my triple!
  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078
    womack said:

    de_sisti said:

    ugo.santalucia said:

    I am quite relieved I don't own any of such things...

    Still happily running rim brakes, threaded BB, clinchers and even 10 speed! For as long as spares supply hold, I won't be "upgrading"...

    Although that fear has led to stocking on spare parts

    As above, but nine speed. :)
    You lot are positively modern, I'm still enjoying my triple!
    Took my 9 speed triple groupset off and swapped for Chorus 12 on my Arthur Caygil last year.

    Still rim brakes and threaded BB though obviously.
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
    Tall....
    www.seewildlife.co.uk
  • womack
    womack Posts: 566
    elbowloh said:

    womack said:

    de_sisti said:

    ugo.santalucia said:

    I am quite relieved I don't own any of such things...

    Still happily running rim brakes, threaded BB, clinchers and even 10 speed! For as long as spares supply hold, I won't be "upgrading"...

    Although that fear has led to stocking on spare parts

    As above, but nine speed. :)
    You lot are positively modern, I'm still enjoying my triple!
    Took my 9 speed triple groupset off and swapped for Chorus 12 on my Arthur Caygil last year.

    Still rim brakes and threaded BB though obviously.
    I've only got 8 speed, jealous now 😟


  • alwaystimetotorque
    alwaystimetotorque Posts: 226
    No it's not ....get one of these.... @rwoofer you will not be disappointed.



    Though the internal routing exit on the downtube is a little fiddly. But once it's done it's done.
  • rwoofer
    rwoofer Posts: 222
    @alwaystimetotorque That's what I've ordered! Was torn between yellow and black, but decided for black in the end, but means 3 month extra wait. Would be good to see a larger pic to see how the yellow looks under natural light. Maybe I could be swayed back to yellow again.
  • de_sisti
    de_sisti Posts: 1,283
    womack said:

    de_sisti said:

    ugo.santalucia said:

    I am quite relieved I don't own any of such things...

    Still happily running rim brakes, threaded BB, clinchers and even 10 speed! For as long as spares supply hold, I won't be "upgrading"...

    Although that fear has led to stocking on spare parts

    As above, but nine speed. :)
    You lot are positively modern, I'm still enjoying my triple!
    I should have mentioned that I've been riding triples since 1994.
  • ragged_trousers
    ragged_trousers Posts: 8
    I think what has largely driven the move to disc is the move to carbon rims. These are increasingly seen as 'must haves'. As a previous user of rim brake carbon rims, I have to say that their braking performance in the wet was less than ideal, especially down a steep country lane, on a poor road surface, in winter. On balance, knowing that rain is never that far away in the UK, and because of the far greater choice, I have reluctantly gone disc. I say reluctantly because of the greater cost, weight, and difficulty of maintenance, and it was a very close call between a rim brake bike and using the spare money to fund a cheap-ish alloy wheelset for rainy days.

    I would love some serious r&d money to be thrown back at the rim brake, but I can't see it happening. I think they will be very much a niche product by the middle of this decade (in the way that mechanical discs are now).

  • junglist_matty
    junglist_matty Posts: 1,731
    The good ol' TCR doesn't agree:

    https://www.giant-bicycles.com/gb/bikes/road-bikes/performance-and-racing#category=race&brake-type=rim

    And has (IMO) the best of both worlds with semi-integrated cables, win win (that's why I have a 2020 TCR advanced pro with 105 rim brakes.
  • junglist_matty
    junglist_matty Posts: 1,731
    The only trouble with having a rim brake based bike going forward (at the minute at least) is the offering of wheels with rim brake compatibility gets slimmer by the month.
  • neeb
    neeb Posts: 4,467
    junglist_matty said:

    The only trouble with having a rim brake based bike going forward (at the minute at least) is the offering of wheels with rim brake compatibility gets slimmer by the month.

    We'll get to a point, though, when some of the Chinese carbon rims are as good as the mainstream ones (if they aren't already), so it'll just be a case of going to a wheelbuilder. Even if rim brake hubs became more difficult to get, there would be an almost infinite supply of serviceable used ones.
  • super_davo
    super_davo Posts: 1,149
    junglist_matty said:

    The only trouble with having a rim brake based bike going forward (at the minute at least) is the offering of wheels with rim brake compatibility gets slimmer by the month.

    But on the flip side, the rim brake wheels are usually cheaper than the disc equivalent, see case in point:

    https://www.wiggle.co.uk/prime-rr-50-v3-carbon-clincher-wheelset - £500
    vs
    https://www.wiggle.co.uk/prime-rr-50-v3-carbon-clincher-disc-wheelset - £600
    (though less if you have gold/platinum)

    That's just one example, many others out there. Though at some point the reduced options will probably mean that cost difference will flip the other way.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Not to worry guys. Just go with the flow and wait 10 or 15 years and you'll see the "NEW" rim brakes on the market. Much better than those disc brakes. Disc brakes are simply a style change, much like clothing. What was out a couple of decades age is now in again.
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,921
    Perhaps the new improved cross ply tyres are imminent then?
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 14,647
    ballysmate said:

    Perhaps the new improved cross ply tyres are imminent then?

    No but putting a flexible air tight inner liner inside your tubeless tyres might well come back into vogue.
  • alwaystimetotorque
    alwaystimetotorque Posts: 226
    rwoofer said:

    @alwaystimetotorque That's what I've ordered! Was torn between yellow and black, but decided for black in the end, but means 3 month extra wait. Would be good to see a larger pic to see how the yellow looks under natural light. Maybe I could be swayed back to yellow again.



    Does this help? I think that the yellow looks much better in real life than on a photograph. It's quite difficult to capture how nice it actually is.

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