The Rugby Thread
Comments
-
Even the Welsh scrum has got better since Anscombe came on, they got smashed in one just before Biggar went off 😂0
-
Poor Eddie, thought it couldn’t get worse than it was with England towards the end. I suspect this is the end of his coaching career.0
-
Insult to injury for the Aussies.0
-
Australia have been terrible. It’s probably mainly down to the Welsh defence and discipline turning them into headless chickens but I don’t think I’ve ever seen an Australian team this bad.0
-
Can it get any worse? 😂0
-
Aussies heading to the airport already, sadly.
That's a major fall from grace.0 -
Really don’t know what to make of that. It feels like the best Wales have played in years. Discipline has been superb, I missed the first 20 minutes but listening on the radio it sounding like Wales were under huge pressure but defending well and the defence has been top notch since I’ve been watching. Set piece has been the best I can remember, tactics spot on. But then I find myself wondering if it was just down to Australia being terrible and I still worry about the backup to the first choice 23.
Anyway, that’s a quarter final booked in what could have been a tricky group. I really wasn’t convinced we’d get out of the group stage.0 -
Very well disciplined play from Wales. Properly poor display from Aus, dire in many respects.
Eddie Jones really is getting paid back.
0 -
To be fair to Eddie that was a classy interview in the situation.0
-
Interesting that the radio commentary made it sound like Wales were under pressure in the first 20mins. They weren't really, Australia had a bit of ball and made a couple of line brakes but it will all a bit sloppy and it never looked that threatening.
Wales looked better than they have in a long while I thought.
Genuine shame to see Australia looking so bad. RU doesn't have that many nations at this level, it can't afford one of the big nations to fall away.0 -
Boy am I going to feel rough in the morning.
Thought we might win, but 40-6?
Gatland doing his loaves and fishes act at another World Cup…"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Well played Wales. Once they sorted out their scrum issues they did all the basics very well, and the game management was excellent.
But oh my, Austalia were utterly terrible. Poor discipline, over hit kicks, both restarts and penalties, and no clue how to breach the Welsh defensive line, coupled with awful discipline.0 -
I'd be interested to know what it is with Eddie Jones. When you look at his track record with Japan, England in the early part of his tenure, Australia first time around (2 WC finals, albeit losses), he can obviously coach and also motivate players.
I wonder what exactly has made the latter part of his England tenure and this second stint with Australia so poor. I know the culture within the RFU and Rugby Australia also plays a part, but Jones must be fairly culpable for the dirge as well?0 -
Arrogance and failure to adapt to a changing game?
(total guesswork)0 -
Yup, I'd say the game is changing outside of his comfort zone and skillset.shirley_basso said:Arrogance and failure to adapt to a changing game?
(total guesswork)
Speed and fast handling is now key.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Yeah, I am sure that is a part of it. He has always loved the limelight but the balance seems to have tipped over into constant attention seeking and less about the actual rugby!
I know he left a few experienced players out and said he was focussed on the next WRC rather than the present but that makes little sense. You can focus on the here and now whilst still having an eye on future planning.0 -
With England, he regularly picked players for one cap, who put in excellent performances, never to be seen again.
He regularly broke players in training .
He kept on picking certain players when other options were playing much better (Ben Youngs being a prime example).
I think in the end he failed to build on the 2019 semi final win, instead focussing on the defeat in the final.
He also failed to respect the Six Nations as a competition.
With Australia, I believe the problem is wider than just him, but it does seem bonkers to have left out some of the experienced players and leaders that he has. Buolding to 2027 starts when you get knocked out of this tournament, not as you enter it.1 -
I would be interested in everyone's view on why England don't always utterly boss rugby as from an outsider, surely just by numbers of participants, they should be way way ahead of every other country?0
-
I was thinking this. It is also my concern for Wales, they looked comfortable against the 'old school' Aussie style even without them executing it so badly. However, they struggle against teams going at them as we saw with Fiji and Portugal. Argentina look like being their quarter final opponents which would probably suit them more than Japan (although that may be unfait to Argentina, I haven't seen much of them recently but seem to recall they have started to play more expansive rugby).pblakeney said:
Yup, I'd say the game is changing outside of his comfort zone and skillset.shirley_basso said:Arrogance and failure to adapt to a changing game?
(total guesswork)
Speed and fast handling is now key.0 -
In South Africa and New Zealand all the best talent plays rugby. Both countries are rugby obsessed.rick_chasey said:I would be interested in everyone's view on why England don't always utterly boss rugby as from an outsider, surely just by numbers of participants, they should be way way ahead of every other country?
In England, a huge amount of potential rugby talent plays other sports. Very few state schools play the game so a lot of kids aren't exposed to it. England is soccer obsessed to the detriment of all other sports.
Top flight club finances in England are not in good shape and clubs are reliant on sugar daddies. You need squads of 70+ (including senior academy players) given the attrition rate against 30 odd in a top flight football team.
2 -
-
The decision is primarily made when at high school.rick_chasey said:OK interesting. But what sport are these 110kg men going into if it's not rugby?!
Long before they become 110kg men.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
The professional pathways start at 13/14 when players are put forward for the DPPs by their schools and clubs. So all those in state schools who don't play the game get missed at that point. And then the vast majority on the DPPs don't make it either.rick_chasey said:OK interesting. But what sport are these 110kg men going into if it's not rugby?!
Then there's the discovery of beer and women which means others drop out, and a lot of people (rightly) don't want to play one sport alone for the rest of the lives which takes up 11 months of the year.
Then don't forget they aren't all going to be 110 kg and 6'6" tall, though nor are all the 23 in an international match day squad. It is still a game for (almost) all sizes. (eg SA winger Colby vs Tongan tighthead prop).
They also spend a lot of time in the gym bulking up, so they aren't naturally 110 kg (or whatever weight they bulk up to), so other sports may be options.
And then, how many people are naturally 110 kgs anyway?
0 -
@Dorset_Boy Good point, I an sure the erratic selection policy and lack of consistency was a major factor with England.
Interesting points with regards his failure to keep up to date with tactics in the modern game. He is obviously an intelligent bloke and knows his rugby, whether this is slight arrogance to stick to what he knows or just a failure to recognise the way the game has changed and adapt accordingly I don't know.
Will be interesting to see if Rugby Australia keep him on for this 2027 plan. After this debacle you would think not, but I don't know enough about world class coaching options to know who they would replace him with?0 -
I guess so. Rugby just always seemed a sport for the big lads. Hell even I played it in school and I just bounced off everyone, regardless of technique which was apparently OK.Dorset_Boy said:
The professional pathways start at 13/14 when players are put forward for the DPPs by their schools and clubs. So all those in state schools who don't play the game get missed at that point. And then the vast majority on the DPPs don't make it either.rick_chasey said:OK interesting. But what sport are these 110kg men going into if it's not rugby?!
Then there's the discovery of beer and women which means others drop out, and a lot of people (rightly) don't want to play one sport alone for the rest of the lives which takes up 11 months of the year.
Then don't forget they aren't all going to be 110 kg and 6'6" tall, though nor are all the 23 in an international match day squad. It is still a game for (almost) all sizes. (eg SA winger Colby vs Tongan tighthead prop).
They also spend a lot of time in the gym bulking up, so they aren't naturally 110 kg (or whatever weight they bulk up to), so other sports may be options.
And then, how many people are naturally 110 kgs anyway?
Anyway, it's not a rant about that, I was just curious what was behind their lack of dominance.
I've spotted a few rugby players turning up in the NFL which was a route I hadn't really noticed before, so I wondered if there was something in the UK rugby culture that was putting people off.
0 -
Australia just did what Wales expected, with no deviation from anything predictable at all. Every time Wales did something unexpected, Australia couldn't cope and it ended up as points. A great performance by Wales.
It didn't make any difference in the end, but being 6-10 down and turning down points from a penalty kick in front of the posts in a match like that is surely madness. Even if it won't always end up with an opposition forward kicking a 50-22.0 -
In England, a huge amount of potential rugby talent plays other sports. Very few state schools play the game so a lot of kids aren't exposed to it. England is soccer obsessed to the detriment of all other sports.
Pretty much this. There are less than 200 grammar schools in England against nearly 25,000 state schools. When I was younger you were more likely to play Rugby and Cricket at a Grammar school, whereas at a comp it was basically just football. I guess it is probably a similar story today.0 -
Most backs are probably in the averagely tall (say 5' 10" to 6' 3") / medium build before specifically working in the gym towards being powerful for modern rugby. Prior to the professional game backs would quite often be in the 70-80kg region, it's really a combination of the modern game and being able to train full time that has resulted on the 90-100kg backs we have today. There are still quite a lot of smaller backs around even at the top level, mainly at scrum half or less frequently on the wing. You quite often hear of the top players (particularly the backs) being good at various sports before opting for rugby.rick_chasey said:
I guess so. Rugby just always seemed a sport for the big lads. Hell even I played it in school and I just bounced off everyone, regardless of technique which was apparently OK.Dorset_Boy said:
The professional pathways start at 13/14 when players are put forward for the DPPs by their schools and clubs. So all those in state schools who don't play the game get missed at that point. And then the vast majority on the DPPs don't make it either.rick_chasey said:OK interesting. But what sport are these 110kg men going into if it's not rugby?!
Then there's the discovery of beer and women which means others drop out, and a lot of people (rightly) don't want to play one sport alone for the rest of the lives which takes up 11 months of the year.
Then don't forget they aren't all going to be 110 kg and 6'6" tall, though nor are all the 23 in an international match day squad. It is still a game for (almost) all sizes. (eg SA winger Colby vs Tongan tighthead prop).
They also spend a lot of time in the gym bulking up, so they aren't naturally 110 kg (or whatever weight they bulk up to), so other sports may be options.
And then, how many people are naturally 110 kgs anyway?
Anyway, it's not a rant about that, I was just curious what was behind their lack of dominance.
I've spotted a few rugby players turning up in the NFL which was a route I hadn't really noticed before, so I wondered if there was something in the UK rugby culture that was putting people off.
I would say for most of the forwards, or front row in particular, rugby probably gave them a chance to be good at sport. Some forwards could potentially have been decent at sports such as athletic throwing events or rowing and you get some decent cricketers amongst rugby players (possibly that private school thing though).
Ireland are probably (currently) the team that offers the other end of the spectrum to England when it comes to results v number of eligible players plus having to compete with other sports / players being in a poor standard league system / not a huge amount of money.0 -
In my 20s I played against a number of British Lions and other internationals as a lowly club player. That simply would be dangerous now.
There was a report on the Irish system before Saturday's game which was interesting and highlighted the hotbed of rugby in the south Dublin private schools. Their international team is focussed around the Leinster squad with a couple from Munster and Ulster and one from Connaught.
The English squad comes from 10 of the 12 clubs that started last season.
Sometimes too much choice isn't a good thing.
All that said, England should consistently be in the top 4 ranked sides really.0
